Team Canada invitees

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Kovy, we all realize your dream of a non-contact dangle Russian league, but defense and checking is part of hockey, that's the problem Russia has now, they stack up their teams and hope for chemistry.  Canada has those top notch defensive players to match teams like Russia and Sweden who have awesome offense.  Defense wins championships. So good luck Russia, Canada will win once again.

With my lineup, if the rules are applied like they should, I think my skills dangler would win but that's just my opinion.

The russians are maybe not big hitters but they are all freaking strong skaters. Look at guys like Kovalev-Samsonov-Fedorov-Kovalchuk-Kozlov, they are all so strong and agile on their skates and they are guys like Datsyuk-Zherdev-Chistov that are practically untouchable.

So don't get me wrong, these guys can play contact way more than guys like Sakic-Draper-Maltby. I'm sure if guys like Kovalev-Kovalchuk-Fedorov can stample guys like Draper if they want but they know that's not hockey. I'm sure even Samsonov can get a piece of Draper.

Canada will need some lose to learn their lessons, I'm sure this day will come a day or another.

Damn Kariya out of the lineup...

The problem is most of your players couldn't find their own end of the ice with a map and arrows painted on the ice. Even the ones that give some effort on defense aren't terribly talented in their own end.

Offensively, most of those guys need open space to work their magic and generally dosappear when they don't have it. There just isn't a good mix on your proposed team.

What you said is true in the NHL...Look at Kovalev with the Rangers, he was doing nothing because he was playing with players that don't create space for him.

But put Kovalev with a Datsyuk or Mario Lemieux and he should be able to do magic. If you put 3 skills players on the same line, they will create lot of spaces for each other with their skills and speed.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's the way I see it.

great players don't need others to open space up...they open the space up themselves. that's what made lemieux and gretzky stand out above the rest

True, watch Kovalev at his last year in Pittsburgh when Mario was injured and he was alone, he was creating space for himself shift after shift. But the game being what it is nowadays it helps to play with player who can create spaces.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I am not saying he is a bad player, but he is a scorer. When he isn't scoring, he doesn't come back very well and takes the puck into dangerous positions. He controls the Power Play, and he'll generally have 2-3 shifts where he controls the puck tremendously. I think of it as a gamble when he is out there because he can either do everything or cost you big time. Don't compare him to Draper because they are different players. I doubt Kovalev could play his game, isn't tough enough, but Draper couldn't play his game either.

The guys you compare him too didn't need space, they made space. There is a difference.

[J-Shera 0]

In my opinion I dont see Kovalev as that good of a player anymore, sure when hes on, he's on, just like every other player is. But when he is not on his game, its a terrible thing to watch. I would much rather take a player like draper in the corner then kovalev. Don't mean to offend you Kovy, but Kovalev isnt' the god your making him out to be.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

In my opinion I dont see Kovalev as that good of a player anymore, sure when hes on, he's on, just like every other player is. But when he is not on his game, its a terrible thing to watch. I would much rather take a player like draper in the corner then kovalev. Don't mean to offend you Kovy, but Kovalev isnt' the god your making him out to be.

I respect your view of the game and like everyone know there's not a lot of people that see the game the same.

But what makes me sad is that maybe I will maybe never see again those kind of skills again in my life. For sure those new generation of player like Ovechkin and Crosby are good but this is not the same thing. When I see those Kovalev and Mogilny who were raise in the old URSS, I see pure skills, magical hands, magical moves that requires years of practice and passion. Those Crosby and Ovechkin are more playing with their physical strenght and they play a more basic hockey, sure they got good skills but not as much IMO.

I see those getting older (Fedorov-Kovalev-Mogilny-Bure-Larionov-Zubov) and I'm getting nostalgic. I will miss those guys and I wish the new generation will bring others players like that. At least, those guys inspired me and if I still love hockey it's in part because of those players.

Let's keep the discussion at this level guys it's fun to have your opinion.

[Cavs019 708]

Kovalev is replaceable because the NHL is about production, not who looks the coolest on sportcenter highlights. Kovy I appreciate skill as much as the next but professional sports are about winning, and sometimes raw skill does not equate to that. As for passing the guard, I see a lot of those qualities in Zherdev, Kovalchuk and Datsyuk, and I think if Columbus/Atlanta can build around them you should have some extremely explosive and exciting squads. You also have tunnel vision it seems when actually naming skill players. Russian does not automatically = Skills. If you cannot get enjoyment out of watching skill players such as Sakic, Lecavalier, even Marek Svatos, then you cannot call yourself a hockey fan.

Edit: Also Kovy have you seen Andrei Kastitsyn play yet? He has great size and plays in that Kovalchuk mold. I was really impressed with his "skills" at the WJC.

[top_shelf_24 0]

In my opinion I dont see Kovalev as that good of a player anymore, sure when hes on, he's on, just like every other player is. But when he is not on his game, its a terrible thing to watch.

I totally agree. I mean the best player out there is the guy who is on his game, and trying his hardest every night --- not the guy who his awesome when he rarely is on.

I do however agree with Kovy too, about how it is so awesome to watch guys like Kovalev, Mogilny, Fedorov, etc. do their thing when they're playing their best. But it is also awesome to know some guys are gonna have a great game before they even hit the ice.

[Chadd 916]

Kovalev is replaceable because the NHL is about production, not who looks the coolest on sportcenter highlights. Kovy I appreciate skill as much as the next but professional sports are about winning, and sometimes raw skill does not equate to that. As for passing the guard, I see a lot of those qualities in Zherdev, Kovalchuk and Datsyuk, and I think if Columbus/Atlanta can build around them you should have some extremely explosive and exciting squads. You also have tunnel vision it seems when actually naming skill players. Russian does not automatically = Skills. If you cannot get enjoyment out of watching skill players such as Sakic, Lecavalier, even Marek Svatos, then you cannot call yourself a hockey fan.

Edit: Also Kovy have you seen Andrei Kastitsyn play yet? He has great size and plays in that Kovalchuk mold. I was really impressed with his "skills" at the WJC.

Svatos? Seriously, even his teammates don't like him.

[Cavs019 708]

Im just talking in terms of raw skills. Kovy-Ribs doesn't care about intangibles obviously.

[Chadd 916]

As long as someone springs him on a breakaway and he only has to deke the goalie, he's not bad. It's those other guys playing any kind of defense that causes problem for him.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

I like those Havlat-Datsyuk-Chistov-Zherdev-Zetterberg but we'll see what they are really able to do in the future. Wellwood impressed me in the AHL this year too.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Kovalev is replaceable because the NHL is about production, not who looks the coolest on sportcenter highlights. Kovy I appreciate skill as much as the next but professional sports are about winning, and sometimes raw skill does not equate to that. As for passing the guard, I see a lot of those qualities in Zherdev, Kovalchuk and Datsyuk, and I think if Columbus/Atlanta can build around them you should have some extremely explosive and exciting squads. You also have tunnel vision it seems when actually naming skill players. Russian does not automatically = Skills. If you cannot get enjoyment out of watching skill players such as Sakic, Lecavalier, even Marek Svatos, then you cannot call yourself a hockey fan.

Edit: Also Kovy have you seen Andrei Kastitsyn play yet? He has great size and plays in that Kovalchuk mold. I was really impressed with his "skills" at the WJC.

Svatos? Seriously, even his teammates don't like him.

What kind of player is he? I've never really saw him play. I'm talking of Svatos.

Whe you speak of Sakic, he have the shot quality of Kovy-Mogo-Fed-Bure but does he really have the skating or the moves or those guys.

[QandA 0]

When you speak of Sakic, he have the shot quality of Kovy-Mogo-Fed-Bure but does he really have the skating or the moves or those guys.

I'll just let Joe's stats speak for himself on this one.

[Eazy_b97 1]

The players you mentioned are getting worse and the new wave of talented Euro's are coming in strong and more talented. I'd put Ovechkin or Kovalchuk up against Mogo any day of the week, at least for your purposes. I'd even put him up against Kovalev because overall he is more exciting. They're more intense, they're quicker and I believe, Kovalchuk at least, has a better shot.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

The players you mentioned are getting worse and the new wave of talented Euro's are coming in strong and more talented. I'd put Ovechkin or Kovalchuk up against Mogo any day of the week, at least for your purposes. I'd even put him up against Kovalev because overall he is more exciting. They're more intense, they're quicker and I believe, Kovalchuk at least, has a better shot.

It's ok to have your view but I can't agree with that. Have you ever seen Kovalev shooting, so you want comparison here are mine :

Kovalev : 6-2 215 lbs

Stickhandling : 10/10

Wrist shots : 10/10

Slap shots : 9.5/10

Passing : 9.5/10

Skating ability : 10/10

Skating speed : 9/10

Hockey sense : 9/10

Checking/Toughness : 7/10

Defensive play : 7/10

1vs1 skills : 10/10

Overall : 91/100

Kovalchuk : 6-3 230 lbs

Stickhandling : 8.5/10

Wrist shots : 10/10

Slap shots : 9.5/10

Passing : 9/10

Skating ability : 9/10

Skating speed : 9/10

Hockey sense : 9/10

Checking/Toughness : 9/10

Defensive play : 7/10

1vs1 skills : 9.5/10

Overall : 89.5/100

I don't think Kovalchuk has a better shot than Kovalev. I don't think he's quicker because Kovalev is so fluid so he just don't look as quick.

Anyway, we will never come to an agreement because we don'T have the same view of the game. It's ok like that though... ;)

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

To add, from what I have seen, Kovalchuk plays a much more simple game. Kind of like Bure where you don't BS with the puck as much as some other Euros like Kovalev, etc. Get the puck and fly up the ice with it in a more North-South type of game.

lol Theo, exactly the North American view of the game, up and down.

Do you remember the 1972 series between the Soviets and Canada. The soviets were always coming back in their own zone, when they were doing change up they were even bringing the puck back in their zone instead of dumping it.

I don't like to see up and down hockey because guys never control their moves, I prefer a slower game where guys control their moves and doesn't always give up the puck to the other team.

[Perry94 0]

um...Russia'll probably never play Zherdev IMO because he was "the fish that got away"...

the kiddy line from Russia for the WC was crazy....AFinogenov Malkin Ovechkin > your average line

I like WATCHING the Russian team...but that's about it...you know with Canada you'll get a squad that'll compete night after night...with the Russians..well...you either humiliate the defense or get your own defense humilated

and yes..Kovalchuk > Kovalev...KOvalchuk wants to SCORE...kovalev would rather try to deke people out (at least that's how it seems anyways)

[McCabe#1 0]

I wouldn't want either of them on my team. But if I HAD to pick one, it would be Kovalchuk.

[kosydar 0]

Here is my question Kovy. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious. If Kovalev is better than Kovalchuk, shown by the skill rankings you did, then how come over the past 3 years Kovalchuk has 20 more points in 18 less games? (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=389&hubName= vs. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp...uk&hubName=ATL). I do agree with you that Kovalev is one of the greatest skilled players in the game, but when it comes down to it, he only shows up half the time. Kovalchuk on the other hand seems to put together a much more complete season that Kovalev. Judging them by complete skill, I'd say you might be right that Kovalev is better. But by actually playing the game, stats show Kovalchuk has better numbers. Plus, that includes Kovalchuk's rookie season, which is impressive if you ask me.

[A_Steeves12 0]

Checking/Toughness : 7/10

Defensive play : 7/10

Defensive play : 7/10

How can you give those marks? espeacially Checking/Toughness for Kovalev? i dont even want to get in to that. neither of them are very defenceive players.

Id take kovalchuk of kovalev any day if i was starting a team.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Here is my question Kovy. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious. If Kovalev is better than Kovalchuk, shown by the skill rankings you did, then how come over the past 3 years Kovalchuk has 20 more points in 18 less games? (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=389&hubName= vs. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp...uk&hubName=ATL). I do agree with you that Kovalev is one of the greatest skilled players in the game, but when it comes down to it, he only shows up half the time. Kovalchuk on the other hand seems to put together a much more complete season that Kovalev. Judging them by complete skill, I'd say you might be right that Kovalev is better. But by actually playing the game, stats show Kovalchuk has better numbers. Plus, that includes Kovalchuk's rookie season, which is impressive if you ask me.

I don't know why he's not producing more and I wish next year he'll win the championship title so everyone can recongnize his talent. It doesn't mean I find him better that you have to find him better.

What piss me is that we all know Kovalev makes errors and he doesn't produce as he should but in term of skills level Kovalev is not in the same class than Kovalchuk. If you don't check numbers and don't check stupid moves and you only check skills and talent and you pu everyone playing on outside rink Kovalev is maybe the closest to perfection.

Ask to Leech, Lemieux and Jagr and all the players that played with Kovy and lot of them will say that he's a real game breaker and that he's one of the best skilled player they ever saw.

I don't say he's the best player, I say he's the most talented player in the NHL.

Kovalchuk is good but he doesn't have the raw skills of those Bure, Mogilny, Fedorov, Kovalev and Jagr each in their prime. Maybe Kovalchuk will improve but right now he isn't there. Again I'm not talking of best player, I'm talking of talent.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Its not not raw skills you are speaking of. It's beauty and stupidity. Kovalchuk beats as many people as Kovalev, but when he beats them, he is gone. He has a choppier stride, but he is quicker. Kovalchuk scores more, he is shown more attention and he continues to produce. His talent shows through. His raw skills come through for me because he does it nightly, he doesn't have to depend on a mistake by a D, he forces them to make mistakes.

Kovalev is a great player, with tremendous skill, but he is not the most skilled European. He may be the best stickhandler, standing still, but I don't think it goes beyond that. He does alot of things well, but he isn't the best at alot of thing, which you seem to come off suggesting he is.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Its not not raw skills you are speaking of. It's beauty and stupidity. Kovalchuk beats as many people as Kovalev, but when he beats them, he is gone. He has a choppier stride, but he is quicker. Kovalchuk scores more, he is shown more attention and he continues to produce. His talent shows through. His raw skills come through for me because he does it nightly, he doesn't have to depend on a mistake by a D, he forces them to make mistakes.

Kovalev is a great player, with tremendous skill, but he is not the most skilled European. He may be the best stickhandler, standing still, but I don't think it goes beyond that. He does alot of things well, but he isn't the best at alot of thing, which you seem to come off suggesting he is.

With my eyes, he's easily in the Top 3 in the world in term of raw skill. And, I'm not alone on this point to say that. Just look at what guys like Jagr, Lemieux, Neil Smith, Gretzky etc. say of Kovy.

Kovalchuk may be more effective but he's not more talented.

[Eazy_b97 1]

"Kovy is the best stickhandler I've seen" - Mario Lemieux. It's a talent, there are ALOT more than just that. Thats the problem, your not looking past that.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Here's some links :

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/mirosatan2/kovalev.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports_headlin...990120pens4.asp

http://www.freep.com/sports/thepuck/pbest27_20030227.htm

http://www.nhl.com/columns/wigge/kovalev012803.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/star...-02-kovalev.htm

http://www.winnipegsun.com/Slam030129/col_simmons-sun.html

You want more?

[Cavs019 708]

To say that Kovalchuk doesn't have the raw skills of those guys is just ignorant. If he really wanted, he could dangle east-west all day, but he prefers to actually produce. If you want pretty, coreographed hockey, go watch the superchiefs from Slap Shot 2.