Weightlifting

[N!! 0]

^Very informative. Are there any other exercises that are effectively worthless, or conversely, exercises that are very helpful but rarely utilized by the average athlete? I'd love to be more efficient in my workouts.

Thanks for the info.

Calf springs, hill sprints, and simulated hill sprints are terrific for helping skating speed and acceleration. Gorilla walking is great as well.

Calf springs involve driving forcefully off the ground with your foot; the great thing is that you do it while walking normally.

Hill sprints are exactly as the name suggests. The reason these are great is because initial acceleration tends to come from a position with the upper body angled forward, which places a greater load on the hip flexors and the gastroc/soleus.

Simulated hill sprints are for those who live in Kansas (just kidding; it works for anyone who doesn't have easy access to hills). Set a treadmill for a nice incline (10-degree grade minimum) and do about a 400-meter sprint. Rest for 90-120 seconds, then repeat. If you're feeling adventurous, do it over 60 minutes to simulate a game.

Gorilla walking involves basically angling your entire upper body forward while walking (just like a gorilla would). It lengthens your stride dramatically and also forces isometric contractions in various muscles of the back.

For the upper body, weighted pendulum swings will make you curse your life but will add some life to your shot. Slap a wrist weight on each arm, and hold the palms of your hands against the outside of your hips. Lift both arms straight up forward, and when your hands get to head level, do a HARD pronation of your hands (imagine turning a door knob; your thumb should end up pointed straight down into the ground). Let your arms swing back gently to slightly behind the hips, supinate your hands back to the starting position, and repeat. Do it 100 times and you'll curse me, but after a while goalies will curse you.

[Storm 0]

Welcome N!!.

I don't do being the neck presses or at least I don't intend to once I start training again because I always new they screwed up my shoulders but didn't realize the bench press was doing the same.

Are push-ups safe?

[gman 0]

Welcome N!!.

I don't do being the neck presses or at least I don't intend to once I start training again because I always new they screwed up my shoulders but didn't realize the bench press was doing the same.

Are push-ups safe?

Push ups are very safe as are handstand pushups. What you experienced is exactly what bench press and military press do to your body. Better to find out sooner than later.

[Hockey* 0]

Well what would be some good things just for complete general strength for all over, because i play football, hockey, baseball etc. and summer job involves lots of heavier lifting so i was more looking to just get stronger in general and not just a specific sport.

[habookus 1]

If you want to become the most well-conditioned hockey player possible, think about what you do during a game, during a period, or during a shift. Think of what muscles are guaranteed to be used and what won't ever get used. Work what is important, don't waste your time on what isn't.

I think that it's a bad idea to neglect certain muscles in training for hockey i.e. biceps, traps, etc. By not training these muscles it could impede your training progress for other parts of your body. Like for example if you don't train your back, its harder for you to improve your chest. Although some muscles shouldn't be trained as hard or as frequently as others all should be trained nonetheless.

Also if done properly with good form, the bench press is a very good multiple muscle upper body workout, and is a good indicator of overall upper body strength. They do use it as a conditioning test at the NHL combine and team training camps.

For speed and agility aren't the hip muscles and upper quads/lower abs(?) very important?

[N!! 0]

If you want to become the most well-conditioned hockey player possible, think about what you do during a game, during a period, or during a shift. Think of what muscles are guaranteed to be used and what won't ever get used. Work what is important, don't waste your time on what isn't.

I think that it's a bad idea to neglect certain muscles in training for hockey i.e. biceps, traps, etc. By not training these muscles it could impede your training progress for other parts of your body. Like for example if you don't train your back, its harder for you to improve your chest. Although some muscles shouldn't be trained as hard or as frequently as others all should be trained nonetheless.

Also if done properly with good form, the bench press is a very good multiple muscle upper body workout, and is a good indicator of overall upper body strength. They do use it as a conditioning test at the NHL combine and team training camps.

For speed and agility aren't the hip muscles and upper quads/lower abs(?) very important?

Don't get me wrong; every muscle in the body is important and certainly needs training. I'm speaking more against the idea that what's important for one thing must be vital for everything.

The problem that I have with the bench press is that true "proper form" (the method that doesn't cause AC joint strain) is inefficient. In order to prevent the irregular force on the AC joint, it is necessary to (while lying flat) never let the elbow drop below the acromioclavicular line. This means that the bar will never end up closer than 9-15" above the chest. Frankly, that's inefficient. The fact that the NHL and NFL combines use this and seem to believe it meaningful simply says that those who put the program together have zero creativity and zero concern for a very important joint.

The other problem with doing the bench is something that I'm sure you've seen experienced weightlifters have, and that is a fractured scapula. The reason is that the amount of force going both ways with the bench actually peels muscle off the scapula; over time, the bone itself literally becomes paper-thin until a fracture is inevitable.

In the world of economics, the marketplace gravitates toward efficiency. The world of conditioning should really be no different. The bench press is inefficient because the negatives far outweight the positives. The initial enormous strength gains seen in the first six to eight weeks of a lifting program are the result of the body laying new neural pathways to make the movement more efficient, not because of actual muscular strength increase. Anything that you do over time will become more efficient until it is maximized (the so-called "muscle memory"). A bench press helps you bench press; it doesn't help you become a better hockey player/football player/ballerina.

[habookus 1]

I think the bench could only be harmful if done with extremely load bearing weights. Most all chest exercises involve the same mechanics of the bench press, besides flyes, so how could you build up your chest?

[gman 0]

I think the bench could only be harmful if done with extremely load bearing weights. Most all chest exercises involve the same mechanics of the bench press, besides flyes, so how could you build up your chest?

Pushups, Dips, tire flips.... The pushing motion is not bad, what is bad is having an equal force on your back as you have on your chest. Do one handed pushups when you are too strong for regular ones. Or do explosive pushups. I have seen guys get to very nearly a standing position from an explosive pushup (not me for sure, but it can be done). Do pushups and dips from hanging rings for even more challenge.

[Storm 0]

Dips seem to put some strain on the shoulders? I have hurt my shoulder doing dips in the past.

Was I simply using bad form? Cause it seems that my elbows are way back there when doing dips.

[saber26 0]

so is the dinosaur training good for hockey or no? I dont wanna be a body builder, I just want to get stronger

could somebody please tell me what dinosaur training is? sorry if it was already

answered

[gman 0]

so is the dinosaur training good for hockey or no? I dont wanna be a body builder, I just want to get stronger

could somebody please tell me what dinosaur training is? sorry if it was already

answered

Dinsoaur training is absolutely good for hockey. Plug it in to google and I think you'll get to the site. It is a bit "Matt Furey-ish" but you can get past that.

[N!! 0]

Dips seem to put some strain on the shoulders? I have hurt my shoulder doing dips in the past.

Was I simply using bad form? Cause it seems that my elbows are way back there when doing dips.

Dips, even done properly, put an awful lot of force on the anterior deltoid, the upper trapezius, and the glenohumeral labrum. Although I love the emphasis on the triceps brachii, this isn't the best way.

Two of my favorite exercises to recommend are what I call EE pushups, short for eccentric-explosive. Here's how you do them.

For "regular" EE pushups, get into a pushup position and turn your hands toward each other so that the middle fingers are nearly touching under your nose. SLOWLY lower yourself down so that your chest lightly grazes the back of your hands (by "slowly", five seconds minimum). Hold for one second, then explode off the ground with your hnads.*****DISCLAIMER***** Until your triceps are strong enough to withstand a nice superset of these, simply push back up rather than exploding like in a one-clap pushup. This works the triceps brachii and pectoralis minor.

The "lineman" EE pushups start in a normal pushup position, with the elbows flush up against the sides (the elbow should be at the bottom of the ribcage). Slowly lower yourself down, then push back up. This will help not only the triceps but also the pectoralis major, eliminating the need for the bench press.

[Storm 0]

Thank-you N!!. Much appreciated.

[Hockey* 0]

one last question.

I have a stationary bike. Would it be better to use it for cardio or could i use it for my legs? I used to go about 3/4 my top speed for about 20-30 minutes and then push it my hardest for 5 and cool down 5 then do other leg stuff to cool down also.

But id always notice it was just abouve my knee i felt the burning sort of pain, so i dont know if it was doing anything, or just doing something bad to my knee's

[Hockeydog 8]

Great stuff, N!!

I don't have any formal training in exercise physiology but have done a lot of reading on my own, and have also worked out with trainers from a Velocity Sports Fitness location. I have done both body building type workouts with free weights and machines, and functional workouts. I never felt athletic when doing the basic leg extension, bicep curls, etc type stuff- as a matter of fact I blew out both ACL's from what I believe to be poor body position due to my workouts lacking any true functional carryover. Now I do basic functional workouts that include squats, deadlifts, pull- ups, horizontal pull-ups, and up until I read this, benches. Thanks for the great info, N!!. I am making modifications to my program based on your posts. Funny that you mentioned Matt Fuery, I was reading about this guy and signed up for his mailing list, which just ended up being a bunch of advertising. Needless to say I unsubscribed from that!

I do have a question for you N!!. Is a decline bench press as useless as a standard BP? It would seem that the angle of that press might be close to that of a hockey player exerting force on his/her stick into the ice. I have been doing declines and also close grip declines for some triceps work.

Thanks!!

[GoHawks 0]

Hockey*, I got into cycling a couple summers back, and I'd have trouble with my knees every once in a while too. Make sure you have the height set correctly. Adjust the seat so when heel is on the pedal at the bottom of your stroke your leg is straight. Set it there, then you'll have the right setting when you're actually spinning (ball of the foot on the pedal). Do you have straps/clipless pedals? It helps a lot, pull on your upstroke as well as push on the downstroke. If you use both legs all the time, you'll save a lot of pain, and it'll work more muscle. Work on smooth form, it should be one continuous motion throughout your cycles, and keep your cadence up. Keeping your cadence high will keep lactic acid from building up in your legs. Hope this helps, maybe it was stuff you already knew.

*edit*

also, spinning is mostly cardio, it's not easy to build strength from spinning while keeping good form, but it is great low-impact cardio. Intervals on the bike would probably help you for hockey, just mimic a shift. 30-45 sec hard, 1:30-2:00 easy, and vary up your intervals on different workout days. i.e. drop it down to 10 sec hard, 15 sec easy, 1:00 hard 1:45-2:15 easy, but remember to keep things smooth as much as possible.

[N!! 0]

one last question.

I have a stationary bike. Would it be better to use it for cardio or could i use it for my legs? I used to go about 3/4 my top speed for about 20-30 minutes and then push it my hardest for 5 and cool down 5 then do other leg stuff to cool down also.

But id always notice it was just abouve my knee i felt the burning sort of pain, so i dont know if it was doing anything, or just doing something bad to my knee's

I agree with the advice GoHawks gave, but there's something else I'm thinking of. Try to set it so your leg doesn't go into full extension; the reason is when you're really pushing or sort of coasting, there's a tendency to let the knee bounce by going to full extension. This will cause microscopic soft tissue tearing and pain/inflammation. Try having a slight forward lean while pedaling; a backward lean of any sort of even a straight up position will force full extension.

The other thing, which is perfectly natural, is that the patellar ligament/tendon is being asked to withstand a harder and faster physical load than usual. It will cause discomfort directly above and slightly on top of the kneecap, but isn't anything to be concerned about unless it becomes legitimately painful.

Great stuff, N!!

I don't have any formal training in exercise physiology but have done a lot of reading on my own, and have also worked out with trainers from a Velocity Sports Fitness location. I have done both body building type workouts with free weights and machines, and functional workouts. I never felt athletic when doing the basic leg extension, bicep curls, etc type stuff- as a matter of fact I blew out both ACL's from what I believe to be poor body position due to my workouts lacking any true functional carryover. Now I do basic functional workouts that include squats, deadlifts, pull- ups, horizontal pull-ups, and up until I read this, benches. Thanks for the great info, N!!. I am making modifications to my program based on your posts. Funny that you mentioned Matt Fuery, I was reading about this guy and signed up for his mailing list, which just ended up being a bunch of advertising. Needless to say I unsubscribed from that!

I do have a question for you N!!. Is a decline bench press as useless as a standard BP? It would seem that the angle of that press might be close to that of a hockey player exerting force on his/her stick into the ice. I have been doing declines and also close grip declines for some triceps work.

Thanks!!

I'll give you an in-depth answer in this spot when I get back home from work as far as incline/decline benches go.

As for Matt Furey....yeah. Thanks for the ads on "Immortality Rings".

I'm not a fan of leg extensions at all because of the amount of force that it applies to the patellar region (tendon/ligament and the knee joint itself). It's a perfect example of a single-joint isolation exercise that has no specificity (this includes if you're a straight-on kicker) to anything.

[GoHawks 0]

I've got a question for you N!!!, I've been running for quite a while, and if I run hard, such as hills or intervals, after a while i get a searing pain on the bottom of my knee. It's just the left one, and it doesn't happen when I wear a knee strap. I asked a doctor about it a while back, he told me it was runner's knee, so I eased off, and it got a lot better. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but if I don't wear the strap when I run intervals, I can feel it start to get painful when I get towards the end of my run. Are there any exercises or stretches I can do to strengthen that tendon or whatever is causing the pain? Thanks, appreciate the knowledge you're contributing to the board!

[gman 0]

Is a decline bench press as useless as a standard BP? It would seem that the angle of that press might be close to that of a hockey player exerting force on his/her stick into the ice. I have been doing declines and also close grip declines for some triceps work.

Thanks!!

To get that angle, you can do dips. They don't have to be hard on your shoulders if you don't over stretch on the bottom. You can also vary the angle of attack on your own by leaning more foreword or staying more vertical. If your hands and wrists are really strong, you can do these on a straight bar like you would on the side of a pool. This takes uber-strength.

You can get a great shoulder workout doing standing overhead press. If you put this at the end of a clean you have a tremendous total body workout. Even better, grab a sandbag (duffel bag filled with rocks will suffice) and clean and press that. Not only will you get the cleaning and pressing muscles, but you will hit more stabilizers than you thought you had. Also your hands will get a great workout as well.

[N!! 0]

I've got a question for you N!!!, I've been running for quite a while, and if I run hard, such as hills or intervals, after a while i get a searing pain on the bottom of my knee. It's just the left one, and it doesn't happen when I wear a knee strap. I asked a doctor about it a while back, he told me it was runner's knee, so I eased off, and it got a lot better. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but if I don't wear the strap when I run intervals, I can feel it start to get painful when I get towards the end of my run. Are there any exercises or stretches I can do to strengthen that tendon or whatever is causing the pain? Thanks, appreciate the knowledge you're contributing to the board!

What you described is patellar tendinitis, with the treatment prescribed being something called a cho-pat strap.

Muscles in the body draw force from the insertion point of the muscle; when the inserting tendon becomes inflamed, the area becomes painful and inflamed and the muscular force reduces due to this. What the strap does is move the insertion point higher up. The slight compressive effect and the placement above the tendon means that the muscle is drawing power from the strap rather than the tendon, which eases the load on the tendon and will reduce inflammation as it heals.

The problems with distance running are these:

1) Lower leg torque, and

2) Full extension

Lower leg torque is as it sounds; the lower leg is twisting as your foot makes contact with the ground. What this is doing isn't damaging the tendon, but actually the lateral and medial meniscus (the two cup-shaped cushions of cartilage in the knee). The twisting causes the distal condyles of the femur to rub the edges of the meniscii.

Full extension in running is where your foot hits the ground with the knee fully extended (straight line between hip and ankle). The amount of force exerted combined with the vibration/bouncing from the ground is causing a disruption with the way the femur fits into the meniscii. This is causing a front-and-back shift of the femur, which is causing very slight stretching of the ACL and PCL.

Strengthening of the patellar tendon cannot take place with a cho-pat strap on, and the tendon gets stronger only when the muscle is being asked to withstand a greater load. Doing something like squats (with perfect form, of course) will increase the strength of the quadriceps group and therefore the tendon.

[Hockey* 0]

I think i will try GoHawks advise first since how i have it right now, its not all the way up, and i still have a bit of bend in my knee at the bottom of my pedal.

But basically all i have to do is Raise the Seat even higher (i dont know how much higher it goes since im 6'2 on just a stationary bike) and lean forwards? Also the pain is just my patellar ligament/tendon being worked and there is nothing to worry about?

The bike has straps on the pedals also. I was mostly using it for cardio but i figured i might as well try and do a bit of leg work if i could while i was on the bike since its snowing now and i can't drive to a gym to jog.

[-brady2 0]

If you want to become the most well-conditioned hockey player possible, think about what you do during a game, during a period, or during a shift. Think of what muscles are guaranteed to be used and what won't ever get used. Work what is important, don't waste your time on what isn't.

I think that it's a bad idea to neglect certain muscles in training for hockey i.e. biceps, traps, etc. By not training these muscles it could impede your training progress for other parts of your body. Like for example if you don't train your back, its harder for you to improve your chest. Although some muscles shouldn't be trained as hard or as frequently as others all should be trained nonetheless.

Also if done properly with good form, the bench press is a very good multiple muscle upper body workout, and is a good indicator of overall upper body strength. They do use it as a conditioning test at the NHL combine and team training camps.

For speed and agility aren't the hip muscles and upper quads/lower abs(?) very important?

Don't get me wrong; every muscle in the body is important and certainly needs training. I'm speaking more against the idea that what's important for one thing must be vital for everything.

The problem that I have with the bench press is that true "proper form" (the method that doesn't cause AC joint strain) is inefficient. In order to prevent the irregular force on the AC joint, it is necessary to (while lying flat) never let the elbow drop below the acromioclavicular line. This means that the bar will never end up closer than 9-15" above the chest. Frankly, that's inefficient. The fact that the NHL and NFL combines use this and seem to believe it meaningful simply says that those who put the program together have zero creativity and zero concern for a very important joint.

The other problem with doing the bench is something that I'm sure you've seen experienced weightlifters have, and that is a fractured scapula. The reason is that the amount of force going both ways with the bench actually peels muscle off the scapula; over time, the bone itself literally becomes paper-thin until a fracture is inevitable.

In the world of economics, the marketplace gravitates toward efficiency. The world of conditioning should really be no different. The bench press is inefficient because the negatives far outweight the positives. The initial enormous strength gains seen in the first six to eight weeks of a lifting program are the result of the body laying new neural pathways to make the movement more efficient, not because of actual muscular strength increase. Anything that you do over time will become more efficient until it is maximized (the so-called "muscle memory"). A bench press helps you bench press; it doesn't help you become a better hockey player/football player/ballerina.

I don't see how having a stronger upperbody could possibly make you a worse hockey player.

[N!! 0]

If you want to become the most well-conditioned hockey player possible, think about what you do during a game, during a period, or during a shift. Think of what muscles are guaranteed to be used and what won't ever get used. Work what is important, don't waste your time on what isn't.

I think that it's a bad idea to neglect certain muscles in training for hockey i.e. biceps, traps, etc. By not training these muscles it could impede your training progress for other parts of your body. Like for example if you don't train your back, its harder for you to improve your chest. Although some muscles shouldn't be trained as hard or as frequently as others all should be trained nonetheless.

Also if done properly with good form, the bench press is a very good multiple muscle upper body workout, and is a good indicator of overall upper body strength. They do use it as a conditioning test at the NHL combine and team training camps.

For speed and agility aren't the hip muscles and upper quads/lower abs(?) very important?

Don't get me wrong; every muscle in the body is important and certainly needs training. I'm speaking more against the idea that what's important for one thing must be vital for everything.

The problem that I have with the bench press is that true "proper form" (the method that doesn't cause AC joint strain) is inefficient. In order to prevent the irregular force on the AC joint, it is necessary to (while lying flat) never let the elbow drop below the acromioclavicular line. This means that the bar will never end up closer than 9-15" above the chest. Frankly, that's inefficient. The fact that the NHL and NFL combines use this and seem to believe it meaningful simply says that those who put the program together have zero creativity and zero concern for a very important joint.

The other problem with doing the bench is something that I'm sure you've seen experienced weightlifters have, and that is a fractured scapula. The reason is that the amount of force going both ways with the bench actually peels muscle off the scapula; over time, the bone itself literally becomes paper-thin until a fracture is inevitable.

In the world of economics, the marketplace gravitates toward efficiency. The world of conditioning should really be no different. The bench press is inefficient because the negatives far outweight the positives. The initial enormous strength gains seen in the first six to eight weeks of a lifting program are the result of the body laying new neural pathways to make the movement more efficient, not because of actual muscular strength increase. Anything that you do over time will become more efficient until it is maximized (the so-called "muscle memory"). A bench press helps you bench press; it doesn't help you become a better hockey player/football player/ballerina.

I don't see how having a stronger upperbody could possibly make you a worse hockey player.

One has nothing to do with the other. The bench press does more damage in the process of a relatively pointless exercise than it produces positives.

If you can tell me what movements in a game of hockey rely heavily on the pectoralis major versus those that use anything involved in movement of the shoulder joint, then we may be getting somewhere. The bench press causes damage to the every part of the shoulder joint with the tradeoff of a negligible benefit, and that's a benefit that works better on the cover of Muscle & Fitness than in an actual sport.

[gman 0]

One has nothing to do with the other. The bench press does more damage in the process of a relatively pointless exercise than it produces positives.

If you can tell me what movements in a game of hockey rely heavily on the pectoralis major versus those that use anything involved in movement of the shoulder joint, then we may be getting somewhere. The bench press causes damage to the every part of the shoulder joint with the tradeoff of a negligible benefit, and that's a benefit that works better on the cover of Muscle & Fitness than in an actual sport.

Thank God someone finally has some sense. Perfect post. I may put it as my signature!!

[Hockeydog 8]

If you watch a hockey game on TV and see the camera in the locker room showing players getting ready you will notice that the players don't really have huge chests, other than what they naturally came with. The above statements make sense to me.