Tblades, A Day by Day Journal.

[gavin 0]

Althoma: Having skated on t'blades now, I can see there is some truth in the whole "learning to skate over again" that you hear about them. That is the last thing that a NHLer want's to hear. That is the #1 reason there has been little penetration into the NHL for them.

I have to chuckle at this thread. Let me clear something up before folks go spend $100 or more changing to tblades. Any performance gains from tblades are a result of you changing from one hollow/rocker on your old skates to a different one on the tblades.  Had you changed your old skate's rocker and hollow, you would have seen same results.  Before one invest in tblades, find a good pro shop that can rocker and sharpen correctly.  If you can't, then tblades would be an option.

Let me side with jimmy for a second here. It's true that one of the biggest selling points on the t'blades is the fact that one can change the rocker right away. And it's true that one could PROBABLY (although i'm not the expert here) get the same results if they had a skate pro doting on his every need day and night. But I don't... in fact I think I have only gotten a custom rocker/hollow job ONCE (it cost me 40$ canadian circa 1998).

And where I am now, there is NO WAY that I could get that kind of performance. I'm luck if I can get my skates sharpened before a game. There have been times when I step onto the ice for warmup with very dull skates, only to get "some dude" that's working in the concession stand to put an edge on them before the first period starts. This is less than ideal, but without t'blades, that is what I'm left with, down here in the states.

Anyone want to pipe up as to who has good pro shops? I know that "Cycle Your World" in Campbell River BC was an AWESOME shop and I did my skates there for years, plus just about any pro shop in Dryden Ontario (a.k.a HockeyTown, Canada) will get you the hookup (not counting the Canadian Tire, you could get some high school kid or you could get a real pro, it depends on the time of day etc.) Where I am right now (Middle of Nowhere, Wisconson), all the pro shops close at 5pm and I only drive to a town after the shops are closed (most of the games I play are at 7pm). Although I must say that the guys at Center Ice Pro Shop in Houghton MI (right next to the Dee) are really great. What are the pros like in different parts of the world? Honestly I'm dying for some knowledgable pro shop staff.

[Jason Harris 31]

Jimmy, this is where we have to affectionately agree to disagree. :D

I think you're partially correct here. There's no doubt that having a proper rocker and hollow could accomplish the same feel as the T-Blades. But that's assuming we didn't have a proper rocker and hollow to begin. I have no idea how good my rocker and hollow were prior to switching, but I do know that the shop that sharpened my skates had a great reputation. There was an owner and one employee and most people felt they were the best in the area.

So, assuming I had the correct rocker and hollow, something was different that caused a noticeable improvement in turning. I'm positive that something is the flexibility of the metal, since there is so much less of it. If a conventional runner is close to 3/4" tall, the T-Blade runner is maybe 3/16". When you turn, the runner will bend ever so slightly, allowing a tighter turning radius.

[jimmy 194]

Jimmy, this is where we have to affectionately agree to disagree. :D

I think you're partially correct here. There's no doubt that having a proper rocker and hollow could accomplish the same feel as the T-Blades. But that's assuming we didn't have a proper rocker and hollow to begin. I have no idea how good my rocker and hollow were prior to switching, but I do know that the shop that sharpened my skates had a great reputation. There was an owner and one employee and most people felt they were the best in the area.

So, assuming I had the correct rocker and hollow, something was different that caused a noticeable improvement in turning. I'm positive that something is the flexibility of the metal, since there is so much less of it. If a conventional runner is close to 3/4" tall, the T-Blade runner is maybe 3/16". When you turn, the runner will bend ever so slightly, allowing a tighter turning radius.

Since you didn't know what your hollow/radius/pitch was before you switched to t-blades, that just proves my point altogether. You have no clue in hell if the improvements you think you got were from the tblades, or if it was simply a change from what you had. For example, I have folks come to my shop every day who have been getting their skates sharpened elsewhere. They may have been getting 7/16 at their previous sharpener. If I change them to 17/32 and they see this tremendous improvement in performance, it could be because the 17/32 works better for them. It also could be because my sharpening was better quality than their previous sharpener. So, the only true way you could tell if a tblade gave you a performance improvemant would be to have a rocker/hollow on your skates cut the same as the rocker/hollow on a tblade and then compare them. Lastly if NHL players thought a tblade would give them an improvement over their equipment manager's sharpening, they would switch in a heartbeat.

[gavin 0]

jimmy, I don't think NHLers would switch as fast as you think. Look at guys that are wearing shoulderpads from their junior days, older Bauer skates that are proven to be heavier (especially in the 3rd period) than brand new skates that have all the latest Dry Wicking technology/light materials.

The point is, just because something is an improvement will not convince a player to change. Especially something like a t'blade which really actually does change your skating experience. The first time you step on the ice with them you think "this is different." NHLer's don't like that at all.

[Jason Harris 31]

You misunderstood me, Jimmy. I knew what my rocker/hollow was; I just don't know whether it would be what you consider a correct rocker/hollow. My guess is yes, since the shop has the great reputation, but it's possible you would have recommended something else.

[BK 0]

I just want to add that I dont like the sharpening here at my lhs's. I have the choice of 4. 1 of them does a really good job, but is about 40 minutes away. I got my skates sharpened at the rink a few times, but was dissatisfied with the job they did and honestly, I would rather just replace the runner.

I dont live in a big hockey town, so I would honestly rather just change my rocker than get my skates sharpened half assed.

Now, I never intended for this to turn into an arguement.. I just wanted to post up what I wanted to see before I bought by tblades. All that these forums, and about every other forum on the web had were arguements about how either Tblades are amazing (with no substantial material in the post about it) or how they suck because you can get your skates sharpened at any LHS just as well as the tblades. I wanted a little more info on tblades and maybe a detailed discription of what people thought of them.. and I couldnt find it anywhere, so I thought I would post up what I was looking for myself for others to use.

I dont care if NHL players use them. Look at my sticks(harrow and sherwood momentum).. I couldnt give a fuck-less about what they use. I play with what I think gives ME the best game I can play.. not what stick Kovy is using or which skate has the most X's.

I dont care if you have the skate sharpening guru in your town because I dont and I know that there are a lot of people out there who live in small towns where they dont have a good sharpener..

I wanted to post this up for the average Joe who doesnt play at a pro level but was interested in switching to tblades. I tried to stay neutral on it and tried to focus on the blades and not the entire skate.

Now I understand that there will always be nay-sayers for any product. It will always be coke vs pepsi, Bauer vs CCM, Playstation vs Xbox, Nvidia vs Ati and so on..

Myself and some other people like tblades.. Quit trying to convince me that I dont.

The final word is that tblades might not be for everybody. If you want to try them, try them. If you dont.. well.. stick to whatever helps you give it your all on the ice.

[jimmy 194]

You misunderstood me, Jimmy. I knew what my rocker/hollow was; I just don't know whether it would be what you consider a correct rocker/hollow. My guess is yes, since the shop has the great reputation, but it's possible you would have recommended something else.

We've done this tblade thread over and over again. Do a search, it's all been rehashed to death. All I am saying, and the hard headed can't understand, is that if you are going to compare tblades with conventional steel, everything has to be equal to make the comparision. If someone is going to post that they switched to tblades and now they are skating like Bobby Orr, then we also have to establish the fact that it may not be the tblades that made them skate better, rather simply the change to a different rocker/hollow (on the tblades) that made the difference. No different than if that same person just changed sharpeners and got the proper profile for them and is now skating better. What is so hard to understand about that.

[Jason Harris 31]

What is so hard to understand about that.

I don't think there's anything difficult to understand about your point. And it leads to a good test I'd be willing to undertake -- having the same rocker/hollow/radius put on conventional skates as the T-Blades. Maybe I'll bring my skates back for the Hockey Expo so we can lay this puppy to rest. :D

I personally believe it's the flexibility of the lesser amount of steel that increases the turning radius, but it would be interesting to see whether it was a change of pitch or placement of rocker (I know the hollow was the same).

[jimmy 194]

What is so hard to understand about that.

I don't think there's anything difficult to understand about your point. And it leads to a good test I'd be willing to undertake -- having the same rocker/hollow/radius put on conventional skates as the T-Blades. Maybe I'll bring my skates back for the Hockey Expo so we can lay this puppy to rest. :D

I personally believe it's the flexibility of the lesser amount of steel that increases the turning radius, but it would be interesting to see whether it was a change of pitch or placement of rocker (I know the hollow was the same).

You actually will have a break from the drinking and partying to travel up here! :o

I'd gladly give you a go. Why... pure physics: same hollow, same amount of blade touching the ice, same rocker and pitch, same quality finish and edges = same performance.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Lastly if NHL players thought a tblade would give them an improvement over their equipment manager's sharpening, they would switch in a heartbeat.

So next year, will we see the majority of NHLers wearing KORs ? I know that people have made similar claims of performance increase in KORs, yet I've never seen the same "let's make sure everything is equal" cries from the people that always bring up that argument when T-blades come up. I also understand that some of these same people sell KORs, but that's probably a coincidence. ;)

[Jason Harris 31]

You actually will have a break from the drinking and partying to travel up here! :o

I'd gladly give you a go. Why... pure physics: same hollow, same amount of blade touching the ice, same rocker and pitch, same quality finish and edges = same performance.

I'll be staying with my buddy in Nashua for part of the time, so I'll bring back my skates -- and maybe a second pair if we need to modify them with conventional holders to test this.

[HopHead 0]

You actually will have a break from the drinking and partying to travel up here! :o

I'd gladly give you a go.  Why... pure physics: same hollow, same amount of blade touching the ice, same rocker and pitch, same quality finish and edges = same performance.

Joe Bob at the local hockey shop simply can't put the same quality or consistent edge that machine formed t-blades have. T-blades in a specific rocker and hollow are all exactly the same. They are made on a machine without human error. Between human error, 15 year old Joe Bob's skate sharpening skills, and softer steel, the edge won't be as good as T-blades.

Jimmy, maybe your edges are almost as good as the edges on t-blades but I doubt that this is the case with the average sharpener. Not to take anything away from your skate sharpening skills but you are working with a lesser material (softer steel) than t-blades. The laws of physics are working against you. I am sure that you and all skate sharpeners also have good and bad days that can affect the quality of your sharpenings. Couple all that with the fact that the average skate sharpener doesn't have half your skill and the consisent edges on t-blades look even better.

[stickfixchaska 0]

Now, I never intended for this to turn into an arguement.. I just wanted to post up what I wanted to see before I bought by tblades.

Bad Kitty - You made a great attempt to retake control of your thread! I am sorry that it didn't work. ;)

I also would have liked to see a thread based on ONE PERSON'S experience with the product in a forum. Based on their experiences over a period of time. The "review" written that states, "They Rock!" isn't helpful at all. You at least made a good solid attempt.

Alas, even your Journal was tainted by the idiotic debates that t-Blades seem to cause.

I, for one, am still interested in YOUR experience with t-Blades. Keep this one going.

[Bengalpredator 0]

Badkitty,

I have recently gone through the same experiance as you. I have recenlty gone back to my old Externo 60, from the Salming F-1, and it took me a few games to relearn to skate again, after having to relearn going to the T-blades. I skated about two mounths on the T-blades and then have spent about a month back on the Externo's. I am a little older then you (with a few knee injuries), but on thing that I have found with the T-blades is that my knees did not hurt as much when I was using the T-blades as they do on the Externo's. Did you find any differnce? I have also found that switching back the Externo's do seem to glide and stop a little better then the T-blades.

[Jason Harris 31]

I have also found that switching back the Externo's do seem to glide and stop a little better then the T-blades.

Some threads have suggested that the holders can flex for more powerful/heavier skaters. The suggestion is that, kinetically, the flex will cause a loss of power/speed in straight ahead skating. For that reason, T-Blade introduced new holders this year at the show that are made with a harder yet lighter resin.

I'm anxious to try the new holder to see if straightline speed improves.

[Hobbes_86 0]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but T~Blades are a neutral pitch correct? Maybe that’s why some people are experiencing a big difference in skating when they switch over to them. Could it be the neutral pitch is helping them to skate better?

Coming off a knee injury maybe that is why Bengalpredator isn’t having pain with the T~Blades, they are not forcing him into a deep knee bend.

[Chanimal 0]

While risking beating the deadhorse, I would like to offer my experience as a t'blade user of 3 years. The first pair of skates I put these puppies on were my pro stock Vapor 10s. Yes, I noticed the seemingly "dull" edges and wobbly feeling at first, but then once you apply some skating techniques to it, they worked wonders for me. Since I used to play a lot more roller hockey, I believe that the t'blades give you a feeling that is similar to skating on inlines. Another thing that I noticed is that they have a lot of "give". I have bought new skates, pro stock XXs, Graf 703s, and skated in the original holders for a couple of times, but inevitably, I go back to putting t'blades on them. I can conclude that my sole reason for doing so it that the tuuk and cobra were very "stiff" and after using the t'blades, I caught myself catching a lot of edges, if that makes any sense. I believe this quotient of "give" is also the reason behind Easton, Graf, and Bauer, all coming out with perf steels. They say while this makes the skates lighter, it also put a "springlike" effect in the skaters stride and give him/her an extra "pop" when snapping out of the cut.

[hyprlte 0]

i find that no matter what the tblades were always too sharp for me.. not to mention LOUD.. i got to demo them and did not like them whatsoever

[BK 0]

Now, I never intended for this to turn into an arguement.. I just wanted to post up what I wanted to see before I bought by tblades.

Bad Kitty - You made a great attempt to retake control of your thread! I am sorry that it didn't work. ;)

I also would have liked to see a thread based on ONE PERSON'S experience with the product in a forum. Based on their experiences over a period of time. The "review" written that states, "They Rock!" isn't helpful at all. You at least made a good solid attempt.

Alas, even your Journal was tainted by the idiotic debates that t-Blades seem to cause.

I, for one, am still interested in YOUR experience with t-Blades. Keep this one going.

Thanks :)

I am going to skate in them this week and will keep posting what I think about them. Its really tought to find anything about tblades anywhere. I looked and looked and looked for about a week and all I could find were threads that offered no substantial information. I got tired of seeing one person asking a good question about tblades and getting nothing but "I have used tblades for X years and they rock" or "They are all hype".

Badkitty,

I have recently gone through the same experiance as you. I have recenlty gone back to my old Externo 60, from the Salming F-1, and it took me a few games to relearn to skate again, after having to relearn going to the T-blades. I skated about two mounths on the T-blades and then have spent about a month back on the Externo's. I am a little older then you (with a few knee injuries), but on thing that I have found with the T-blades is that my knees did not hurt as much when I was using the T-blades as they do on the Externo's. Did you find any differnce? I have also found that switching back the Externo's do seem to glide and stop a little better then the T-blades.

I found that they do offer up a little more support. I didnt comment on it before because it might be my new boot. The plastic bends a little cushioning my stride (which is IMO, why they are so hard to skate in at first.. you are basicly going from a soild piece of steel to a strip of steel with a flexable runner attached. Its like taking the struts and shocks off of your car.. its a much smoother ride with the shocks and IMO a much smoother ride with the plastic on the tblades) I had a hard time going back to my CCM's and stopping. I didnt feel as smooth in the stop as I did with the tblades. I cant really atest that it is from the tblades and not from my dull profiles, but it IS nice holding that good edge for months instead of days.

[BK 0]

P.S.

As for the arguement... I am kind of interested in it. There is very little info on tblades and a good Xbrand vs Xbrand test would be helpful for people who are really interested in tblades.

[jimmy 194]

Now, I never intended for this to turn into an arguement.. I just wanted to post up what I wanted to see before I bought by tblades.

Bad Kitty - You made a great attempt to retake control of your thread! I am sorry that it didn't work. ;)

I also would have liked to see a thread based on ONE PERSON'S experience with the product in a forum. Based on their experiences over a period of time. The "review" written that states, "They Rock!" isn't helpful at all. You at least made a good solid attempt.

Alas, even your Journal was tainted by the idiotic debates that t-Blades seem to cause.

I, for one, am still interested in YOUR experience with t-Blades. Keep this one going.

No ones arguing here, just trying to get some facts out for discussion. If I made a post that said my car goes faster than yours, wouldn't it be important to bring to light that my car's horsepower was 450 and yours was 180? You simply can't post one person's experience without having some details and hard facts if the intent of the post is to make performance claims.

[jimmy 194]

You actually will have a break from the drinking and partying to travel up here! :o

I'd gladly give you a go.  Why... pure physics: same hollow, same amount of blade touching the ice, same rocker and pitch, same quality finish and edges = same performance.

Joe Bob at the local hockey shop simply can't put the same quality or consistent edge that machine formed t-blades have. T-blades in a specific rocker and hollow are all exactly the same. They are made on a machine without human error. Between human error, 15 year old Joe Bob's skate sharpening skills, and softer steel, the edge won't be as good as T-blades.

Jimmy, maybe your edges are almost as good as the edges on t-blades but I doubt that this is the case with the average sharpener. Not to take anything away from your skate sharpening skills but you are working with a lesser material (softer steel) than t-blades. The laws of physics are working against you. I am sure that you and all skate sharpeners also have good and bad days that can affect the quality of your sharpenings. Couple all that with the fact that the average skate sharpener doesn't have half your skill and the consisent edges on t-blades look even better.

Hophead, You are correct. JoeBob the 15YO probably can't do a great job like those who have more experience and better technique or machines, but there are many good sharpeners out there who can cut a precise hollow and radius, and do so with consistency. BTW, humans set up machines, and not all machines are perfect. In fact, I can't recall who, but someone on MSH had posted some problems about tblades consistency or edges. But this thread wasn't about tblades, rather the performance gains one person says he experienced. Again, all I was trying to point out that it could have been the change of hollow and radius he got with his new tblades that gave him the gains, not necessarily the tblades themselves.

[jimmy 194]

It seems like the only people who have a problem with t-blades sharpen skates for a living! The skate sharpeners make me chuckle.

Seriously chocking up a better experience with t-blades to different hollows and rockers than their regular blades is not a logical conclusion. Changing hollows and rockers makes some difference but it is minor, not like the significant differences t-blade users are reporting. A good skater can cut the ice with a 3/8" or 1" hollow. The major differences arrive when harder steel and sharper edges are introduced. The same skaters on the 3/8" or 1" hollows will cut the ice even better with sharper edges formed from harder steel.

T-blades are made of a much harder steel than standard blades. The harder steel of t-blades can be made much sharper and highly polished than standard blades. Skate blades are just like knives. If I take a high quality hard steel and sharpen it I can give it an extremely sharp and durable edge. It will cut through wood, rope, etc. with ease. If I try the same thing with the steel of a butter knife or other softer steel I won't get nearly the edge I got with the harder steel. It won't cut thorough rope or wood nearly as well. If you know anything about knives an Emerson knife will hold a sharper edge for a longer period than a Buck knife. The Emerson knives use better steel. T-blades are made from harder formed steel that holds a sharper edge. They will cut the ice better.

It has been reported by a few members that trying to sharpen t-blades on a skate sharpening machine destroys the wheels used to sharpen standard blades. This is evidence that t-blades use a much harder (high quality) steel than on standard runners and backs up the manufacturers claim. It is a simple fact that a harder material will be more resistant to wear than a softer material, thus contributing to t-blades holding their edge much longer than standard steel. Diamonds abrade rubies. Rubies abrade Quartz. Quartz abrades calcite. T-blade steel abrades standard steel.

Here's where you are wrong about sharpeners, me and many other sharpeners have always said tblades are a great option for those who may not have a good sharpener nearby. In fact I would like nothing better than to sit on my a$$ at the register all day and sell tblades, but frankly, no one wants them, no one asks for them, and many who've had them have switched back to regular steel.

You are dead wrong though on hollow adjustments and rocker adjustments. They make a huge difference. I do approx 15,000 custom hollows and prob 2-3000 rockers a year, and I could give you thousands and thousands of testimonials. even a 1/32" change in hollow is noticable. Enough said.

You are partially correct about steel and steel hardness. It is well know by skate sharpeners that high carbon steel holds the best edge, followed by stainless, then low carbon. Many different steels are made to different hardness levels, some hold edges better than others. I haven't seen the specs on tblades, other than what the manufacturer claims, but it would be interesting to see the actual make-up of their steel, and the hardness. BTW, this same manufacturer claims their steel heets up and melts the ice. Anyway, still, a quality stainless blade can be sharpened to a fine, polished finish with a superior edge. I will bet in a controlled lab test, both the tblade and stainless blade will perform identical if all parameters are the same on both blades. AGAIN, that was the intent of my response to this ridiculous thread, if parameters are the same, then go ahead and post your improvements, but don't just say I switched to tblades and now I skate like Bobby Orr.

[Rustybender 0]

Now, I never intended for this to turn into an arguement.. I just wanted to post up what I wanted to see before I bought by tblades.

Bad Kitty - You made a great attempt to retake control of your thread! I am sorry that it didn't work. ;)

I also would have liked to see a thread based on ONE PERSON'S experience with the product in a forum. Based on their experiences over a period of time. The "review" written that states, "They Rock!" isn't helpful at all. You at least made a good solid attempt.

Alas, even your Journal was tainted by the idiotic debates that t-Blades seem to cause.

I, for one, am still interested in YOUR experience with t-Blades. Keep this one going.

No ones arguing here, just trying to get some facts out for discussion. If I made a post that said my car goes faster than yours, wouldn't it be important to bring to light that my car's horsepower was 450 and yours was 180? You simply can't post one person's experience without having some details and hard facts if the intent of the post is to make performance claims.

Let's face it, alot of hockey equipment is bought for reasons other than what is best. 8 year olds don't need One piece sticks, yet they still use them and are convinced they make them better. Put a $10 woodie in that kids hands and he will play like crap because he is convinced the woodie is holding him back. The performance gains for him are real because he has convinced himself that they are real.

I think the same goes with t'blades. There may or may not be any benefit to them, but to those that feel they are beneficial, they are.

Let the girl post her journal. Every differing opinion does not need a rebuttal. And if you are going to claim you are just sharing the hard facts, then share them. I looked back and didn't see any, just theories and opinions.

FWIW, I used t'blades for a while. Didn't love them, didn't hate them. I'm now on LS2 steel.

[BK 0]

Let the girl post her journal.

I'm a guy...

<_< duchebag.