Question about profiling/contouring

[SickBoy 0]

I've searched through the site, but I'm still confused.

Is profiling just changing the radius (not hollow) of the blade? I know I've read (but can't remember where now) that profiling would be done based on the weight, skill level, position, etc of the skater. But I'm not sure if this is true, or what exactly would be done to the blade.

I've been out of hockey for about 10 years now, and just got a pair of skates, hopefully to start playing again. I went with a pair of Vectors, and I'm fine with the radius they have. Do I need to get them profiled? Or is the sharpening enough?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Yes. Contouring = profiling = radiusing

[jimmy 194]

I went with a pair of Vectors, and I'm fine with the radius they have. Do I need to get them profiled? Or is the sharpening enough?

A "profile" at some shops can include a custom hollow. When I do a profile, it includes custom hollow, radius, and pitch. Now, you say you are OK with the radius on your vectors. Have you ever tried a different radius? I compare custom radius to stick curves. Imagine if they only made one curve. Yes, you could play hockey with it, but it only would work great for a small percentage. That's why there are hundreds of curve options. So while you may be able to skate Ok with the stock radius, perhaps you could skate awesome with a custom radius. Just food for thought. I use to like Andre' champagne until I tasted Dom Perignom. :D

[SickBoy 0]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I posted my question on another board too - where I thought I saw that original discussion I mentioned - and got the following response (and yeah, I'm in SoCal):

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When you buy new skates, the right one is not necessarily identical to the left one. This is inevitable due to manufacturing variances that the factory can not control. Contouring is the process of custom-cutting of the blades to take out those variances, so both your feet are oriented to the ice in the same way.

Changing the hollow, radius, or lie are seperate activities from the process of contouring, but since they are often done at the same time (but don't have to be) they tend to get lumped together as the same concept in the collective consciousness of the hockey playing community.

In summary: contouring is just making your 2 skates equal, regardless of whether you want specific #'s for the hollow, radius, or lie, or just live with the defaults that come with the skates out of the box.

But, since contouring is so cheap ($25), it is highly recommended to go to someone who knows what they are doing (James at Hawk Hockey; Pat Moore at HealthSouth's TeamLA store), and tell them your height, weight, experience, and position played, and follow their recommendation for putting a specific radius and lie on your blades. CCM knows nothing specific about you, so don't treat their default settings as something sacrosanct that you musn't change.

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[jimmy 194]

True. Matching your left and right blades is just part of the profiling process. One of the reasons to get a profile for sure is that 80-90% of new pairs of skates are mismatched right out of the box. I do think, unless the factory radius and pitch is what works for you the best, your profile should be matched to your style, and ability. In other words, why just get the facotry radius's matched when you can fine tune them for the same price.

[analog999 0]

Ok, here's a question that goes along with this topic then - if I want to grind down my skates to a specific radius, I'm assuming there must be radius templates or something? Where can I buy them?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Three ways to do it - manually with radius templates (Maximum Edge); manually with a special jig (Blademaster/Blackstone) or computerized (CAG ONE)

[logan 0]

Yes.  Contouring = profiling = radiusing

To add to this, there are also the occasional guys who come asking for "Rockering" when they really mean custom contour.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Nah, those guys think rockering is when the blade looks like a banana.

[BNotar35 0]

If you guys want to get technical with this. There are 2 completely different things for profiling and contouring the blades.

Profile= Radius, your just changing the pitch of the skate either back or foward (Defensive and Foward Radiuses) This changes the actual circumferance of the Steel, also places the contact point foward or backward (like i just said) If i remember correctly, a neutral radius is an 11 degree radius, when you profile the skate, you're making it a 9 degree radius.

As far as the hollow- The hollow as everyone knows. The hollow just effects the edges of the steel (sharper/duller)

Now as far as contouring...or rockering. That is just feathering the toe and heel to round off the skate to make a more rocking back and forth feel. Thus the term rockering. Some people that find themselves as both a defensive and offensive player would have this done becuase you actually can rock your contact point from back to foward through out the game...aka- rockering.

Now if you like the way your skates are...because there is a natural pitch with the skate and boot. leave it as is, try asking for a light feathering. that will help if your finding that maybe ur too flat like a goalie skate would be. The tough with with actually radiusing your skate is neutralizing it back to normal.

You can also fool around with different hollows as well, maybe that will solve ur problem, use a shallower hollow so maybe u dont catch as much and ur sitting more on top of the ice, rather than digging in and catching a lot of your edge.

[TML4LIFE 0]

If you guys want to get technical with this. There are 2 completely different things for profiling and contouring the blades.

Profile= Radius, your just changing the pitch of the skate either back or foward (Defensive and Foward Radiuses) This changes the actual circumferance of the Steel, also places the contact point foward or backward (like i just said) If i remember correctly, a neutral radius is an 11 degree radius, when you profile the skate, you're making it a 9 degree radius.

As far as the hollow- The hollow as everyone knows. The hollow just effects the edges of the steel (sharper/duller)

Now as far as contouring...or rockering. That is just feathering the toe and heel to round off the skate to make a more rocking back and forth feel. Thus the term rockering. Some people that find themselves as both a defensive and offensive player would have this done becuase you actually can rock your contact point from back to foward through out the game...aka- rockering.

Now if you like the way your skates are...because there is a natural pitch with the skate and boot. leave it as is, try asking for a light feathering. that will help if your finding that maybe ur too flat like a goalie skate would be. The tough with with actually radiusing your skate is neutralizing it back to normal.

You can also fool around with different hollows as well, maybe that will solve ur problem, use a shallower hollow so maybe u dont catch as much and ur sitting more on top of the ice, rather than digging in and catching a lot of your edge.

wow

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

If you guys want to get technical with this. There are 2 completely different things for profiling and contouring the blades.

Profile= Radius, your just changing the pitch of the skate either back or foward (Defensive and Foward Radiuses) This changes the actual circumferance of the Steel, also places the contact point foward or backward (like i just said) If i remember correctly, a neutral radius is an 11 degree radius, when you profile the skate, you're making it a 9 degree radius.

As far as the hollow- The hollow as everyone knows. The hollow just effects the edges of the steel (sharper/duller)

Now as far as contouring...or rockering. That is just feathering the toe and heel to round off the skate to make a more rocking back and forth feel. Thus the term rockering. Some people that find themselves as both a defensive and offensive player would have this done becuase you actually can rock your contact point from back to foward through out the game...aka- rockering.

Now if you like the way your skates are...because there is a natural pitch with the skate and boot. leave it as is, try asking for a light feathering. that will help if your finding that maybe ur too flat like a goalie skate would be. The tough with  with actually radiusing your skate is neutralizing it back to normal.

You can also fool around with different hollows as well, maybe that will solve ur problem, use a shallower hollow so maybe u dont catch as much and ur sitting more on top of the ice, rather than digging in and catching a lot of your edge.

Nope...sorry...

1 - blade radii vary from mfgr to mfgr...there is no set neutral radius.

2 - feathering the toe and heel is called tip trimming, not rockering. It is done freehand.

[Chadd 916]

I always hate when people ask for a "Defenseman" profile. I know guys who use 20+ different profiles that all play defense.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I was taught contouring is just knocking the front or back of the steel off the skate, which is what other shops around my old one did. So the steel looking like the / For D as it angled backwards, and \ for forwards.

Profiling is putting the radius on the blade (not the hollow).

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Tip trimming, blending, whatever you want to call it...

[majg65 0]

Which blade manufacturer has the most consistent blades? (i.e. which manufacturer's blades typically require the least work to match the left and right blades). On the the flip side, which blades are the most inconsistent?

Thanks.

[logan 0]

Part of the problem lies with the inconsistencies in what people are taught.

I was never fully taught what all the terms mean, and what I was taught was conflicting information. However, combining what I've learnt from sharpening, plus what I have read, and with some awareness of the English language, here is how I equate/differentiate the terms:

As JR mentioned, Contouring = Profiling = Radiusing , and I fully agree and understand it as being the same.

If you want to really pick apart the terms you can say that:

1. "profile" AND "contour" mean outline. Thus the outlining edge of a steel blade.

2. "Radius" is half the diameter of a circle, and "radiusing" is applying a specified radius to an object (in this case, a steel blade). So essential it is the most general/significant "outline" of a blade.

3. "Rocker" is to shape to allow for a greater "rocking" motion, in the case of steel blades, means trimming the ends of the blades.

4. Shops often tack on the word "custom" in front of "profile", "contour", and "radius", to indicate that it can be tailored to individual players needs and preferences, and that it can be duplicated; and thus a quantitative, measured process.

To sum it all together (from what I understand it) we generally use the terms to mean as follows:

In order to "Profile" or "Contour" a blade, you must apply a radius to the majority of the blade. Also, this process of customizing the "outline" of a blade, with relevance to a skater, has a "pitch" (front-to-back lean angle) and also varying degrees of heel and toe "rocker". Rocker is done to usually to allow for sharper & smoother turns and toe-snap/push-off, but is generally a qualitative (free-hand) process.

So when we custom "profile" or "contour" a blade, we apply a radius, factor in pitch, AND rocker or trim the ends of the blade as needed. We often use "radiusing" synonymously with "profile" or "contour" because, again, with relevance to a skater, you do not apply a radius to a blade arbitrarily without considering all the other factors.

Finally, with regards to blade radius of hollow (ROH). This is something that is also customizable to skating ability and personal preference, and is not necessarily part of the profiling process. However, all shops should obviously sharpen your skates after they profile it. A good shop will take this "custom" service further and ask you about your ROH preferences or help you find the right one for you.

Ok, I hope I didn't mess any part of that up. I'm going to bed now... ;)

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Logan -

You get a gold star.

[BNotar35 0]

If you guys want to get technical with this. There are 2 completely different things for profiling and contouring the blades.

Profile= Radius, your just changing the pitch of the skate either back or foward (Defensive and Foward Radiuses) This changes the actual circumferance of the Steel, also places the contact point foward or backward (like i just said) If i remember correctly, a neutral radius is an 11 degree radius, when you profile the skate, you're making it a 9 degree radius.

As far as the hollow- The hollow as everyone knows. The hollow just effects the edges of the steel (sharper/duller)

Now as far as contouring...or rockering. That is just feathering the toe and heel to round off the skate to make a more rocking back and forth feel. Thus the term rockering. Some people that find themselves as both a defensive and offensive player would have this done becuase you actually can rock your contact point from back to foward through out the game...aka- rockering.

Now if you like the way your skates are...because there is a natural pitch with the skate and boot. leave it as is, try asking for a light feathering. that will help if your finding that maybe ur too flat like a goalie skate would be. The tough with  with actually radiusing your skate is neutralizing it back to normal.

You can also fool around with different hollows as well, maybe that will solve ur problem, use a shallower hollow so maybe u dont catch as much and ur sitting more on top of the ice, rather than digging in and catching a lot of your edge.

Nope...sorry...

1 - blade radii vary from mfgr to mfgr...there is no set neutral radius.

2 - feathering the toe and heel is called tip trimming, not rockering. It is done freehand.

all these terms mean the same thing guys...its just where in the country your from, they call it different, Ive had many guys (and girls too) come ask for a feathering...But the basic consenis here is that if you want your skates custom...DONT DO IT YOURSELF. ASK AND LET THE PROFESSIONALS AT YOUR LHS DO IT.

[logan 0]

Logan -

You get a gold star.

Yay, my first sticker! :P Seriously though, we should put together a manual or something! It'll help everybody, and also help us, cuz we dont have to have a debate over terms every time. Actually, I got dizzy after re-reading it just now. haha

[Guest Muck]

Is there a "guide" to find out what profile would be best for me/any other player?

[jimmy 194]

Is there a "guide" to find out what profile would be best for me/any other player?

No guide, but an experienced radius shop can select a good point to start from, then you will have to expirement and try a couple of different ones till you find the one that works best for you.

BTW, I "shave" the toe and "feather" the heel. :D

[analog999 0]

Three ways to do it - manually with radius templates (Maximum Edge); manually with a special jig (Blademaster/Blackstone) or computerized (CAG ONE)

How difficult is it to do with just the maximum edge templates - and can you easily use the templates to add lie on the contour?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

You just keep grinding until you match the profile on the template.

[analog999 0]

Then why pay more for the blademaster or blackstone ones?