Med. School Question

[kovalchuk71 212]

For people on here who are doctors/nurses or know anything about med school.

Do I have to go to a normal college first? How does the "track" to becoming a doctor work. I want to be an anestheiologist if that helps

[warrior37 0]

yes, most medical schools require a bachelors degree in pre-med., biology, etc and you have to get good grades like 3.7 or better, also you have to get involved with clubs and such, medical school is no cake walk

[kovalchuk71 212]

Ya I know its tough, but its always been my dream.

BTW, are you saying clubs in college?

[warrior37 0]

yeah, like honor society, theres usually like pre med club, stuff like that, itd be wise to job shadow anestheiologist's and crna's, maybe try to get a small job at a dr's office, things like that

[kovalchuk71 212]

What is a "shadow" anestheiologist and crna's? Like by shadow do u mean like an intern?

[warrior37 0]

sort of, your last year of med school you will be an intern which is where you work for free, but job shadowing is like where you set up an appointment to go in, see where they work, talk to them, and sometimes you get to see them in action, you dont get to do much though considering youre not qualified

[jcp2 2]

What country are you talking about? Canada, U.S., and others have different criteria to enter medical school.

[Nacho 0]

yes, most medical schools require a bachelors degree in pre-med., biology, etc and you have to get good grades like 3.7 or better, also you have to get involved with clubs and such, medical school is no cake walk

I thought the same thing before I talked to my school councillor this year. She said that on a 100% scale marks are worth 10%, volunteering/personality/interview process is worth 40% and MCAT is worth 50%. But obviously marks need to be very strong to handle the workload that occurs in the medical facilties.

[msander 0]

Well I can't speak for the American schools, because I know they put a lot more value in the MCAT than Canadian schools do. As an example, here at UBC, you get a file review score out of 50. They score you out of 25 on academics, and 25 on extracurriculars, essays, references, personal experience etc. That determines whether you are interviewed. After that, they combine your interview score (which I also think is out of 50) and voila, that decides whether you're in or not. Becoming an anesthesiologist is very difficult. It requires getting into med school which is difficult enough. 2/3 of undergrad science students want to enter med school...there's enough spaces for 1/40 or so. Then you need to excel in med school and perform very well so you get your placement in the residency program you want (anesth., cardio, neuro, etc.). Basically you're looking at 4 years undergrad + 4 years med school + 4-6 years post grad residency training. It's a long road ahead my friend.

[kovalchuk71 212]

yes, most medical schools require a bachelors degree in pre-med., biology, etc and you have to get good grades like 3.7 or better, also you have to get involved with clubs and such, medical school is no cake walk

I thought the same thing before I talked to my school councillor this year. She said that on a 100% scale marks are worth 10%, volunteering/personality/interview process is worth 40% and MCAT is worth 50%. But obviously marks need to be very strong to handle the workload that occurs in the medical facilties.

Your talking about College correct?

[msander 0]

Yes, you can't apply to med school until you've finished a minimum of 3 years of undergraduate study...and your high school grades count for nothing once you're into college.

[kosydar 0]

Yes, you can't apply to med school until you've finished a minimum of 3 years of undergraduate study...and your high school grades count for nothing once you're into college.

They're taking into consideration if you're transfering after your Freshman year. My buddy is transferring and his school is only looking at his high school grades/SAT score.

[Gongshow11 1]

once you get to college talk to an advisor, this thread has to be a joke. do i need to go to a regular college? r u serious?

[jcp2 2]

I can't speak for Canadian doctors, but this is what I did. I got really good grades and SAT scores in high school and went to a private university here in the States. Once in university, I took the required prerequisite courses for medical school admission (calculus, physics, chemistry, organic chemistry, advanced physiology/molecular biology, english) in addition to the courses required for my major (electrical engineering). I took the MCATs my junior year in university. I applied and interviewed at several medical schools with the help of my college advisor. Because I got very good grades in college and a very high score on the MCATS, as well as graduating from a well known university with some prestige, I got accepted into a private medical school and did four years of medical school training. The first two were in medical sciences and the last two in clinical rotations. In the second year I took part one of my medical boards. During my third year in medical school, I decided on a medical specialty and started looking around at residency training programs. The last half of the third year and the first half of the fourth year I applied and interviewed at various programs that I was interested in. I took part two of my medical boards during my fourth year. Because I did very well in medical school and got good recommendation letters, I got my first choice of residency program. I spent four years in residency training. During the second year of my medical training I took the third part of my medical boards and was licensed as a physician, but not yet board certified, because I hadn't finished my residency training yet. At the end of my fourth year of training, I decided I wanted to subspecialize within my specialty. I spent two years as a fellow at another hospital. During this time I took the specialty boards and became board certified. Because this fellowship didn't meet my final goals of practice, I spent another two years in another subspecialty fellowship. I took another set of subspecialty board exams at the end of this fellowship. Now I have been in private practice in the subspecialty of my choice for three years now. I just turned 36.

4 years private college (tuition, room and board $16000/yr) + 4 years medical school (tuition, room and board $22000/yr) + 4 years residency (salary $36000/yr, before taxes, living costs, loan repayments) + 4 years fellowship (salary $40000/yr, before taxes, living costs, loan repayments) = 16 years of rigorous training after high school and over $100000 in student debt.

yglod11 is right. Speak to your academic advisor(s).

[morty 0]

jcp2, has all that been worth it for you? I'm just in my first year of sciences now, looking to major in some sort of biology, and originally had hopes of becoming a doctor or some sort (I was thinking I'd figure it out down the road). But now with my first year coming to an end, I just don't know if I have it in me to go for 7 more and then do residency and everything afterwards... Do you know if it would be the same sort of deal for sports medicine? I plan on going and talking with some advisors pretty soon, but if you know anything about it, I'd appreciate the help.

[jcp2 2]

For me it was worth it. If I didn't go to medical school, I wouldn't have met my wife and ended up with the family that I have now. I am also very happy doing what I do at work and at home. The student loans were a big pain, but we've finally paid them off. I think you have to have a lot of determination and discipline, and you have to know what you really want out of your life in order to become a physician and be happy being a physician. There's no shame in changing your mind along the way, but remember that you shouldn't have any regrets about what you did or didn't do, because that time is gone, and there is no way you can get it back.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say sports medicine. Are you talking about a team doctor, a rehab specialist, or an orthopod (among others). Sports medicine is a very specialized field, and there are fellowships that one can do AFTER residency that focus on that particular area. If you think that "sports medicine" physicans work primarily with younger and more athletic patients that are otherwise healthy aside from their particular injury, you would be wrong. As these patients are relatively uncommon, very few physicians can make a practice on "sports medicine" alone. For example, a rehab physician will see a lot more older patients recovering from strokes, heart attacks, and other chronic injuries and diseases. An orthopod will be replacing a lot of hip and knee joints on seniors. A team doctor will be treating a lot of conditions acquired by players acquired during "extracurricular" activities. Sports medicine is something that they do in addition to what they already do.

[msander 0]

Hey JCP, maybe you can help me out with a question or two I have. I'm graduating with my BSc this year, have already been accepted into dental school, and am waiting to hear on med school. Don't make me get into why I applied to both schools, let's just say I'm trying to keep as many options open as possible, lol. I figure there's a pretty good chance I'm going to end up getting in, which means I'm going to have to make a fairly large decision here.

I'm mostly curious about two things. First off, when you finish your 4th year of med school, is it a year internship and then residency? I've heard conflicting statements with some people saying the clinical rotations you do in 4th year is your internship...which I wasn't really buying.

The other thing I was wondering is how have you found your time committments throughout med school and residency right through into private pracitce. The problem that's staring me in the face right now, is that I'm more interested in medicine and clinical work than I am in dentistry. However, I have family and friends who are in both fields and it seems like so many of the physicians have terrible personal and social lives outside of work. I want to have time for friends, family, and experiences beyond work as I hit my 30s, 40s and 50s.

I guess the last thing I was wondering is did you really get turned onto a specialty once you hit med school. This is another thing I'm nervous about. I know that I don't want to finish up as a GP, but at the moment I have no draw to one particular specialty. Is it that most people find their inspiration once they start getting exposure in the clinicial 3rd and 4th years.

Alright...final question, how'd you like med school. It doesn't matter which way I go, my first two years will be the same regardless. It'd be nice to know if I'll still get to have a social life or if some of the horror stories really are true! lol ok that was way too long of a post.

PS. If you don't mind, can I ask what specialty you finally ended up getting into? If you'd prefer, you can reply to this post in a PM, I realize a lot of the information may be personal.

[jcp2 2]

Are you applying to Canadian or American medical schools? In the States, the 3rd and 4th clinical years of medical school are still part of medical school, and not part of internship or residency training, which is in the broad category of post-graduate medical education (get it, at this point you've already graduated and got an M.D.). Some specialties like internal medicine and pediatrics are a straight three year residency after graduation. Subspecialties of internal medicine like cardiology and gastroenterology are three year fellowships that require that an internal medicine residency be completed before starting the fellowship. Super subspecialties such as interventional cardiology (angioplasty etc.) require another year after the cardiology fellowship. Similarly, general surgery is a stright five year residency. Subspecialties of general surgery such as trauma or cardiothoracic surgery require a two to three year fellowship after the general surgery residency. To make it more confusing, there are some specialties that require one year (the internship, or first year) of internal medicine training with subsequent three years within their own residency program. Examples include dermatology, psychiatry, and neurology. Others require one or two years of general surgery before entering their own specialized residency. Orthopedics, otolaryngology, urology, and opthamology come to mind.

It's possible to have interests outside of medical school and post graduate training, but the core of your time and effort should be used to get good training and education. The more disciplined you are with your time, the more likely it is that you might be able to keep up an outside activity. You can probably "get by" with a half-hearted effort, as the most competitive part of medical school, getting accepted, is already over. However, you might not be able to enter the specialty of your choice or train in the geographical area of your choice. Later on, it depends on which specialty you end up choosing. A surgery residency and subsequent career is certainly more demanding on you, both in terms of total time involved and predictability of scheduling, than dermatology might be. I've had time for stuff outside of my practice, but I also don't consider my practice as "work" in a negative way (ie. something I have to do to pay the bills, but would stop doing if I won the lottery). I really like what I do, and if I don't have a personal and social life that others would consider to be great, so be it, as long as I'm happy and my family is happy.

As for specialty exposure during medical school, to be truthful, it is a bit limiting. Most of your clinical rotations will be in the dominant areas of internal medicine, general surgery, pediatrics, psychiatry, neurology, and OB/GYN. Smaller specialties such as radiology, dermatology, opthamology, pathology, rehab medicine, etc. end up being short electives that students generally use as a break away from the major ones. The subspecialties are also generally electives. If you are even vaguely interested in any of the nonmajor specialties, or in any subspecialty, you'll have to work a lot harder to get good exposure to the field. Also, most training takes place inside a hospital environment, but in the real world, doctors have a private office where they see their patients. This part is also hard to get experience in. Even a busy neurosurgeon only operates for part of the week, with the remainder of his time filled with initial office visits, evaluation visits, and post-operative checks. From your previous posts, I take it that you are in Canada. What I've described is the American system. I think the medical school training is largely the same, but the options for post-graduate training in Canada is much more limited, with most physicians ending up as general practitioners. Training opportunities in other specialties is much more limited and as a result, much more competitive. In fact, many Canadians who finish medical school come to the United States to get specialty training that they otherwise wouldn't be able to get in Canada.

I thought medical school was okay. Because I majored in engineering as my undergraduate degree, I wasn't really part of the pre-med gunner mentality that I heard so much about. Also, because engineering was a very rigorous course of study, I did not find medical school to be significantly more difficult than university. A lot of my friends did find that it was a lot more difficult. As it is, the best part of medical school was meeting my future (and current) wife. My final choice of specialty ended up being a lot different than what I envisioned myself being when I first applied to medical school.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

http://people.howstuffworks.com/becoming-a-doctor.htm

check that out, it has all the info you'll need.