Stats games

[SB39 2]

Are there any tricks or certain ratios that tell if a certain player who might not be so obvious is actually a great or horrible player. I was looking at stats today, and one thing jumped out at me; having a higher +- rating than total number of points. What are some indicators or a players performance, much like how baseball is so heavily stated up...?

[Chadd 916]

plus/minus can be misleading but if you see a player with a rating that is much higher or lower than other guys on the team, it's often a sign. GWG can be a clutch stat too.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

Look at the ice time too.

[hocckey77 0]

goals, assists, or points per minute

[Eazy_b97 1]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

[Chadd 916]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

I'm going to get crucified for this but look at Dion Phaneuf, 44 points is great for a defenseman. Then you see 31 of the 44 are on the PP. 13 points at even strength in 74 games isn't all that impressive.

[lamplighter 0]

Just remember:

"there are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

[zingbergeur 0]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

I'm going to get crucified for this but look at Dion Phaneuf, 44 points is great for a defenseman. Then you see 31 of the 44 are on the PP. 13 points at even strength in 74 games isn't all that impressive.

2/3 of Lidstrom's points are from powerplays, and he has 25 even strength points. Not that much better than Dion.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Double the even strength points of another player is pretty good. Lidstrom is still top 6 in scoring for the NHL when looking at only ES points. Dion is just inside the top 75. I didn't think Bouwmeester was up that high in points, and it looks like a ton are 5 on 5.

[DarkStar50 679]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

I'm going to get crucified for this but look at Dion Phaneuf, 44 points is great for a defenseman. Then you see 31 of the 44 are on the PP. 13 points at even strength in 74 games isn't all that impressive.

I won't crucify you but we all know the Flames offence sucks. They win with defence and goaltending. The Wings play 16 games against Blues and Hawks. I believe they have also stomped Columbus a few times, too. Lidstrom should have even more points, unless its a mercy deal with him.

[hip check 0]

Remember that Lidstrom isn't the (only) big gun on the blue line for the Wings' PP. Schneider is doing a decent job back there as well... 56 points, +32, 11 PP goals, 4 GWG.

[Eazy_b97 1]

How do the Wings work their PP anyways? I haven't seen enough of their games to figure it out.

William - Lidstrom first unit

Lidstrom - Schneider second? And Chelly gets some time if Nick is tired?

[Chadd 916]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

I'm going to get crucified for this but look at Dion Phaneuf, 44 points is great for a defenseman. Then you see 31 of the 44 are on the PP. 13 points at even strength in 74 games isn't all that impressive.

I won't crucify you but we all know the Flames offence sucks. They win with defence and goaltending. The Wings play 16 games against Blues and Hawks. I believe they have also stomped Columbus a few times, too. Lidstrom should have even more points, unless its a mercy deal with him.

My point is simply that he isn't very creative offensively. He just takes a hard shot from the point and hopefully it goes in. He doesn't move the puck nearly as well as a lot of other guys. He's also only a +2 so his defensive ability seems to be a little overrated.

[DarkStar50 679]

Points per minutes can be a little rough. Someone with a good PPM, but low minutes can be very one-dimentional and be getting some "protection" from the coach.

All of the stats have their loopholes. Best is to take a look at them, and watch as many games as possible.

I'm going to get crucified for this but look at Dion Phaneuf, 44 points is great for a defenseman. Then you see 31 of the 44 are on the PP. 13 points at even strength in 74 games isn't all that impressive.

I won't crucify you but we all know the Flames offence sucks. They win with defence and goaltending. The Wings play 16 games against Blues and Hawks. I believe they have also stomped Columbus a few times, too. Lidstrom should have even more points, unless its a mercy deal with him.

My point is simply that he isn't very creative offensively. He just takes a hard shot from the point and hopefully it goes in. He doesn't move the puck nearly as well as a lot of other guys. He's also only a +2 so his defensive ability seems to be a little overrated.

#1. If you are a Flames defenceman, your role is defence, not offence. Darryl Sutter coaches very similarly to Pat Burns, when Burns ran the Canadiens: Defence first, last, and always. Sutter has a system that plays to the team's strength: defence. All the players must play within the system.

#2. If you are a rookie defenceman, your role is even more defence. You can take the +/- stat and do whatever you want with it. On a team that scores one goal a night and plays for the shutout from then on, + 2 or +22 is not all that important. Lets face it: +/- is the most unreliable statistic to calculate a player's value to his team. As far as being a rookie d-man, I also go back to Caoch Burns during his Canadiens days. I met a rookie Habs d-man at Sir Winston Churchill's pub on Peel St one night. He had been a healthy scratch 10 games in a row. I asked him about the Habs system: He told me he was under strict orders he could only carry the puck as far as the red line. If he could not make a pass to a forward by the time he reached the red line, he was under orders to dump the puck in deep. He said, rookie forwards can make a mistake and no one sees it, a rookie defenceman makes a mistake and the puck is in the net and everyone in the Forum knows why. He was struggling but this kid but he turned into a pretty good dman. His name is Eric Desjardins. My point is players have roles and must play within their roles or otherwise, they simply do not play. It is the NHL where the coach of a winning team has the final say.

#3. As for moving the puck, Dion is not exactly skating with the 86 Oilers. The Flames have speed on the forwards as proven by their effective forecheck, but through the neutral zone the team has nights where the forwards struggle to gain the attack zone with puck control. This team creates pressure on the offensive zone turnover, not on the neutral zone rush and attack at the blueline.

#4. Finally, like Crosby, he is a kid. Sid is 18 and Dion is 20. Lets stop and look at his potential down the road. Dion is playing his position at a level for his age that is way above other defencemen with 3, 4, 5 years experience in the league. I will gladly take the bet that barring injury, Phaneuf wins the Norris Trophy before he retires.

[Chadd 916]

The kid is good and has the chance to be very good. I'm just tired of hearing how he should be in contention for the Norris this year. He has a big shot and throws huge hits, but he is not at a norris level yet.

[DarkStar50 679]

He is a work in progress. I do see improvement in his play from October to April. Not yet a Norris Trophy candidate by any means (IMO), he is a rookie! I find him to be an interesting player to watch. He has a lot of tools to work with. Thats all.

[chippa13 1844]

When playing stat pools, you have to look at how the scoring works. Some pools value pp goals higher so you'd want a guy who gets a lot of those. Others count all points the same so you'd want players that lead the scoring race in general. Also, with most online pools, everyone will be inclined to pick the same guys so you may want to differentiate yourself by searching for that diamond in the rough, the guy who hasn't broken out yet. It is a risk but worth it if it pans out.

For example, in a pool I was in, Eric Staal was an option at the third center spot. Having watched his AHL season last year, it was worth a shot that he might translate it to the NHL. That chance worked out. Kobasew was also an option at third right wing. He also had a great AHL season but didn't bring that same production to the NHL this year. Luckily it was only a third line pick but was somewhat of a bust.

For goalies, you want to pick a guy who is going to be playing a lot of games. Brodeur is always a good choice because even if the Devils have an off year, he is going to get a good share of wins and shutouts. Luongo is another good pick because of how many games he plays.

For defensemen, the first thing you should look at is powerplay production because that is where most get their points. Some pools don't look at plus/minus, so you can usually ignore that stat.

[zingbergeur 0]

Double the even strength points of another player is pretty good. Lidstrom is still top 6 in scoring for the NHL when looking at only ES points. Dion is just inside the top 75. I didn't think Bouwmeester was up that high in points, and it looks like a ton are 5 on 5.

I was trying to compare the ratio of powerplay points to total points, which are very close (69% of Dion's points come while on the PP and 66% for Lidstrom), but I see what you're saying.

[Nick23 0]

i remember seeing a site that compared the players points to their minutes on the ice, and when pavel bure was top top, he wasnt the most effecient points scorer.