Does bow legged-ness affect skating?

[Vic 0]

I've heard that bow legged people have an easier time skating, because the way their legs bow out makes it easier to push against the ice?

I know, this sounds stupid, but I'm bored at work and I've read this somewhere. Not sure where though. Kinda makes sense.

Obviously, being bow legged isnt going to equate with being a great skater, but maybe their is an advantage.

Which hockey players are bow legged anyway?

What do you guys think?

[RadioGaGa 162]

I don't know if Jason Ward (NYR) is, but he has a funny stance on skates...looks kinda bow-legged.

[sonsplayhockey 0]

In power skating classes I've always been taught to bring the legs back into center. starting with your legs out wide would mean a less efficient stride I'd think.

Maybe it makes them more stable though?

There is a guy who skates kinda bowlegged on my team. He plays D. He's not the fastest and he has a sort of short choppy stride but he is very stable and skates backwards pretty well.

[Vic 0]

Hmm, It sure is hard to tell if someones bow legged with shin pads and hockey pants on.

Maybe it would make the stride less efficient, I'm not sure.

I know that im bow legged and am one of the best skaters when Im out there. Top 3 in speed too.

[chk hrd 164]

In power skating classes I've always been taught to bring the legs back into center. starting with your legs out wide would mean a less efficient stride I'd think.

Maybe it makes them more stable though?

There is a guy who skates kinda bowlegged on my team. He plays D. He's not the fastest and he has a sort of short choppy stride but he is very stable and skates backwards pretty well.

bow legged person's feet are together and legs are spread out (bowed) at the knees so being bow legged won't shorten thier stride very much. I read an NFL study about bow legged running backs. It was thier view that being bow legged made them tougher to knock over because it lowers thier center of gravity.

Unless your legs are so far apart that you could ride a horse with your feet together I don't think it affects your skating to much.

[hockeymom 2]

Bio-mechanically, being bow-legged should be less of a detriment than being knock kneed because you do want a wider knee spread when skating. My guess is the degree of effect would be based on how severe the problem is and how straight or square you'd finish at your feet.

[djinferno 2]

Crosby looks bow legged...

[ktang 34]

Crosby is bow-legged, and so is Bobby Orr. I think bow-legged skaters accelerate faster.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Skating ''bow-legged'' doesn't make you slower but skating ''knock-knee'' makes you slower.

[Vic 0]

Hard to tell if someone is bow legged. Especiailly under shin pads and hockey pants.

Knock kneed skaters would defintely have a harder time skating.

[MDE3 0]

The old school of power skating was that you accelerated with feet driving like your two skates were following parellel railroad tracks...this style of skating gave the bowlegged skater a distinct advantage, and long hours of practice of this skating style..even seemed to develop "bowleggedness".

The newer school is, as was correctly mentioned, to bring your recovery foot back across the centerline of your body and to drive away at a slight angle from the centerline of your skating direction, and at the end of the thigh/lower leg extension, exercise a "c"cut with the ankle and toe of the skate...giving you the famous "toe kick" mentioned elsewhere..

The reason for this style of skating is that it brings the large flexor muscle group more into play to begin the stride. This muscle group was seriously under-utilized with the older method. Combined with hip movement to help torque this muscle group, and a slightly different thrust angle, more power can be brought to the stride for people not built with "bow legs" or blessed with exceptional athleticism...in addition this method spreads the muscle load out more and is easier aerobically on the body. Using this method.."knock kneed" skaters suffer no disadvantage.

[hockeymom 2]

This has cleared something up for me and also sparked a question. My daughter has been working on her skating for the last year; she has received some conflicting instruction and it sounds like the difference between "old school" and "new school".

The stride... one instructor has recently said she is pushing out to the side too much which is causing her to "rock" from side-to-side in her skating, and isn't giving her the longer leg extension she needs to develop. He said to correct this, she needs to angle her push backwards more.

Is this what you are describing?

(My daughter is highly amused that her skating is so screwed up she has everything mangled - pushing back on the crossover needs to change to pushing out to the side - and in forwards skating, pushing out to the side needs to change to pushing back.)

[zrez 0]

Mike Modano is bow legged i belive.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

This has cleared something up for me and also sparked a question. My daughter has been working on her skating for the last year; she has received some conflicting instruction and it sounds like the difference between "old school" and "new school".

The stride... one instructor has recently said she is pushing out to the side too much which is causing her to "rock" from side-to-side in her skating, and isn't giving her the longer leg extension she needs to develop. He said to correct this, she needs to angle her push backwards more.

Is this what you are describing?

(My daughter is highly amused that her skating is so screwed up she has everything mangled - pushing back on the crossover needs to change to pushing out to the side - and in forwards skating, pushing out to the side needs to change to pushing back.)

I think she should develop her own skating style instead of always relying on coaches. Look at players like Fedorov, Gaborik, Kovalev and Niedermayer. All these 4 guys are top notch skaters but they all have their unique style. They all skate slightly differently. Training + Practice is the best way to develop skating.

[Storm 0]

I totally agree with Kovy,

For me it all came together during a free skating session. (Skate alone not to be distracted and observe and feel what the body is doing).She'll know she got it right when skating will feel effortless.

There are a lot of female power skating instructors out there. I never asked one of them why that was for fear of being accused of something. I suspect they all have a figure skating backgrounds. I myself did some figure skating during my first year of hockey. ( I hated it but it probably helped me with balance and being able to color co-ordinate my outfits.)

I however feel I skate more like speed skaters. I often have a running start and lean to create momentum. I feel I skate from the hip and push off until I flick my toes.

I often catch myself watching them skate and feel their stride.

Give it a shot. speed skating videos

[MDE3 0]

The technique I describe is very much based on the techniques used by speed skaters. As to the angle of thrust, watch the angle used by speed skaters to get an idea....Remember that the "toe kick" is actually a "c" cut at the end of the stride extension, which actually converts much of the stride into a forward vector.

By using the larger muscle groups, combined with a deep knee flex(at least as important as any of the other elements in the stride), you can generate tremendous acceleration and cover a lot of distance in the first two strides.... Extremely important in hockey in order to create separation on offence, or closure on defence.

The issues of "swinging the hips" is a definite conflict of power skating styles..the "feet on a rail" style has the hips stationary, whereas the speed skating power drive, has the hips swinging back and forth.

[sdcopp 1]

As mentioned before, it's best to find what works for the individual. I didn't find speedskating all that helpful when I did it, I actually was "corrected" several times because I skated like a hockey player and not a speedskater with regards to how my hips and shoulders were turned. Each discipline of skating seems to have it's own quirks about what is expected and accepted and what is useless. Hockey is actually much more open since you don't have someone judging you on your style or a coach yelling because your hips or shoulders were turned this way or that or you're not digging deep enough on this or that.

[Gongshow11 1]

the best skaters in the show are bow leogged

[hockeymom 2]

This has cleared something up for me and also sparked a question.  My daughter has been working on her skating for the last year; she has received some conflicting instruction and it sounds like the difference between "old school" and "new school". 

The stride... one instructor has recently said she is pushing out to the side too much which is causing her to "rock" from side-to-side in her skating, and isn't giving her the longer leg extension she needs to develop.  He said to correct this, she needs to angle her push backwards more. 

Is this what you are describing?

(My daughter is highly amused that her skating is so screwed up she has everything mangled - pushing back on the crossover needs to change to pushing out to the side - and in forwards skating, pushing out to the side needs to change to pushing back.)

I think she should develop her own skating style instead of always relying on coaches. Look at players like Fedorov, Gaborik, Kovalev and Niedermayer. All these 4 guys are top notch skaters but they all have their unique style. They all skate slightly differently. Training + Practice is the best way to develop skating.

I agree with you Kovy that it takes a lot of time and miles to develop your skills. But what are you working on? If you do not have a solid foundation of proper technique you are simply reinforcing muscle memory of the wrong way to do something.

A good instructor who knows their stuff and "clicks" with you can really speed your improvement. One we work with is Dr. Yasha Smushkin, who brings a background of Olympic gymnastics, figure skating and hockey skating and stresses personal creativity and style along with edges, stick, body+mind. He is also a really tough old guy with a thick Russian accent and a completely unconventional approach. He certainly isn't for everyone, but the kids who work with him "get" his passion and work hard to earn his quiet "good" and avoid his "No, bye-bye, you were born by mistake".

[hockeymom 2]

I totally agree with Kovy,

For me it all came together during a free skating session. (Skate alone not to be distracted and observe and feel what the body is doing).She'll know she got it right when skating will feel effortless.

There are a lot of female power skating instructors out there. I never asked one of them why that was for fear of being accused of something. I suspect they all have a figure skating backgrounds. I myself did some figure skating during my first year of hockey. ( I hated it but it probably helped me with balance and being able to color co-ordinate my outfits.)

I however feel I skate more like  speed skaters. I often have a running start and lean to create momentum. I feel I skate from the hip and push off until I flick my toes.

I often catch myself watching them skate and feel their stride.

Give it a shot. speed skating videos

Thanks much for the speed skating vids... very useful!

Can't say as I've noticed a lot of female power skating instructors out there. However, if there are, it must be because women are vastly superior at breaking down skills and explaining them.

We do use the only female full time professional power skaking instructor in Toronto - Annie Fahlenbock - and as far as I know, she has never had picks on any of her skates...lol.

I've led an interesting life with very few regrets, but one of my largest regrets is that I didn't start my hockey-mad kid in figure skating. Your parents were obviously smarter than I am, and it seems you have escaped your encounter with sequins relatively unscathed.

[Vic 0]

the best skaters in the show are bow leogged

And you know this because?...

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Best way to improve technique is to look at the best skaters in the NHL. IMO, using a coach to tell you how to skate is not good. The first thing to develop to be a good skater is edge control and balance. When your edge control and balance will be great through lots of pratice, everything will be easy to do on your skates, acceleration, sharp turn etc... And also flexibility is often too much neglect in skating. I remember seeing an article on how Scott Niedermayer is flexible. Pavel Bure was such a dynamic skater but if you look at his skating in a conventionnal view, he was skating with wrong techniques. But who cares, he was a phenomenal skater, his edge and balance was awesome. His quickness, strenght, flexibility level was awesome too. What I mean by that is if you practice and practice on ice and develop that edge control and balance with a proper strenght&conditionning program, there's no limit of how good you can be on your skates.

I remember an other article in which Sergei Fedorov was mentionned. The article said young Fedorov was always on his skates in his youth. He was on his skates 4-5 hours everyday playing and playing and playing again. After having red this article, it was no surprise to me why Sergei is such an awesome skater.

I think in the actual society, we want to find the miracle solution. I think this the wrong attitude. Go ask to Alexei Kovalev why he's such a good stickhandler, or ask to Sakic why is shot is so good or to Sergei Fedorov why he's so good on his skates and they will all answer you the same thing...Practice

Being a good skater is the same thing as learning to walk. If you don't try and try and try, you will never succeed. The more you will be on your skates, the more it will feel natural for you and then your movement will become natural.

There will always be this ''smart stupid guys' who will tell ''hey, I play hockey since 25 years and I will never be a good skater''. The thing he doesn't tell though is that he's playing 1 or 2 times a week.

How many members here have been for a period of at least 1 years 4-5 hours a day everyday on their skates. How many here have pratice their stickhandling at least 20 minutes a day everyday for 1 year? How many have shot 200 pucks a day everyday?

For those who say yes to my 3 questions, if you are not star player in your team now, you are really really not gifted with genetic.

EDITED - He is also a really tough old guy with a thick Russian accent and a completely unconventional approach. He certainly isn't for everyone, but the kids who work with him "get" his passion and work hard to earn his quiet "good" and avoid his "No, bye-bye, you were born by mistake".

This the part of your text that get me to say that this trainer is very good.

[Vic 0]

Wish I could find 4 or 5 hours a day to spend skating.

I'd be amazing.

I agree that you gotta find what technique works for YOU. Whether that comes from watching Ovechkin or Gaborik, taking lessons or whatever.

In the end it might just be your willingness to try all the methods, and see which work for you and which don't.

Then you truly know what you can do on the ice and what you can't.

Vic

[hockeymom 2]

EDITED - He is also a really tough old guy with a thick Russian accent and a completely unconventional approach. He certainly isn't for everyone, but the kids who work with him "get" his passion and work hard to earn his quiet "good" and avoid his "No, bye-bye, you were born by mistake".

This the part of your text that get me to say that this trainer is very good.

It is because he is Russian, right Kovy?! :P

For most people, spending 4 or 5 hrs on the ice every DAY isn't possible; but I certainly agree if someone did that for a year they would either be very good or, if they weren't good, would have no talent for it.

I don't believe we are really all that different in our opinions. I don't think any instructor is going to be the "magic bullet" that will transform you into being great - that can only come from the "million miles of sweaty unders". The reason that is a catch phrase in our house is to recognize that the difference between good and ok, or great and good, is the amount of time and effort you put into developing your skills.

On the other hand, there is a difference between "working hard" and "working smart". It is smart to get help with your problems; often doing something wrong feels right because it is comfortable and normal, and doing a skill the correct way feels weird and wrong at first. That is when an intervention by a skilled instructor is invaluable; they can show you what you are doing wrong, correct it, make sure you feel what is the correct way ... and then you go practice that skill until it becomes automatic.

The odd thing about improving is there is that period where you are way more effective at doing a skill the wrong way, and are pretty awful when you try to do it the correct way. Many people quit on it at that point and give up and go back to their comfort zone. But if you hang in and work at it - be willing to look foolish - there is a time when it clicks into place.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

EDITED - He is also a really tough old guy with a thick Russian accent and a completely unconventional approach. He certainly isn't for everyone, but the kids who work with him "get" his passion and work hard to earn his quiet "good" and avoid his "No, bye-bye, you were born by mistake".

This the part of your text that get me to say that this trainer is very good.

It is because he is Russian, right Kovy?! :P

For most people, spending 4 or 5 hrs on the ice every DAY isn't possible; but I certainly agree if someone did that for a year they would either be very good or, if they weren't good, would have no talent for it.

I don't believe we are really all that different in our opinions. I don't think any instructor is going to be the "magic bullet" that will transform you into being great - that can only come from the "million miles of sweaty unders". The reason that is a catch phrase in our house is to recognize that the difference between good and ok, or great and good, is the amount of time and effort you put into developing your skills.

On the other hand, there is a difference between "working hard" and "working smart". It is smart to get help with your problems; often doing something wrong feels right because it is comfortable and normal, and doing a skill the correct way feels weird and wrong at first. That is when an intervention by a skilled instructor is invaluable; they can show you what you are doing wrong, correct it, make sure you feel what is the correct way ... and then you go practice that skill until it becomes automatic.

The odd thing about improving is there is that period where you are way more effective at doing a skill the wrong way, and are pretty awful when you try to do it the correct way. Many people quit on it at that point and give up and go back to their comfort zone. But if you hang in and work at it - be willing to look foolish - there is a time when it clicks into place.

No, not at all because he is russian. It's because from what you say he transmits his passion to his ''students''. That's the most important thing to do for a coache.