Buy skates at LHS VS. Buying Online

[hockeydoc 0]

I had the parents and the 14 year old in the shop last week-end looking at Vapor XXX. I heard the dad the say try them on and then we'll order online. They stood around waiting for help. I asked and they said they wanted to try on skates, Vapor XXX. I asked if they were ready to buy today. "Oh maybe." That is the part where the customer lies to the shop guy. I ask him what skates is he wearing. "Easton 500." Hmm, quite a jump to Vapor XXX. I measure his foot and go check stock. I'll let you decide whether or not I had his size in stock and let him try them on.

So a customer lies and he's all bad, but you lie back and that's smart business? I'll bet the owner of the shop would love to hear how you had an opportunity to prove LHS's are far superior to online, but instead you proved how full of it LHS's are!

I've been lied to, and sold more sh@#$ from each of the 5 LHS's in the area and learned that each shop might have 1 competent staff person, but like you he might not care enough to go the extra mile to make it even worth the 25% extra I'm paying. Besides that I can always find what I want or what will accomidate for about 75% somewhere on line.

Nothing beats educating yourself to fit, etc. and getting a $475.00 pair of S500's for $150.00, but ooohhh the $4.99 handling fee did hurt...

Never trust some meat head at an LHS. Check around the local rinks to get recommendations on someone you can trust. After many more than 1 or 2 recommendations, then make sure you let the guy know he was specifically recommended, and who by, then you might get support that would equal the online 25% savings. It will never equal the 77% savings though.

I'm not saying they are all bad. It is rare to find good ones, and guys who think they are really being tricky, like "oh we don't have your size right now..." because "oh my go@#$, I heard him say he's just sizing for an online purchase", are the ones giving LHS's a bad name! Costomers can sence a lie, they may not know exactly what part you've stated is full of sh!@#$, but they know they won't ever trust you again, and in turn will never give you a second shot to win them over once they've been turned on to a online shop.

...But hey, you really showed him...

BTW, Perani's is one of the worst.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

I had the parents and the 14 year old in the shop last week-end looking at Vapor XXX. I heard the dad the say try them on and then we'll order online. They stood around waiting for help. I asked and they said they wanted to try on skates, Vapor XXX. I asked if they were ready to buy today. "Oh maybe." That is the part where the customer lies to the shop guy. I ask him what skates is he wearing. "Easton 500." Hmm, quite a jump to Vapor XXX. I measure his foot and go check stock. I'll let you decide whether or not I had his size in stock and let him try them on.

So a customer lies and he's all bad, but you lie back and that's smart business? I'll bet the owner of the shop would love to hear how you had an opportunity to prove LHS's are far superior to online, but instead you proved how full of it LHS's are!

I've been lied to, and sold more sh@#$ from each of the 5 LHS's in the area and learned that each shop might have 1 competent staff person, but like you he might not care enough to go the extra mile to make it even worth the 25% extra I'm paying. Besides that I can always find what I want or what will accomidate for about 75% somewhere on line.

Nothing beats educating yourself to fit, etc. and getting a $475.00 pair of S500's for $150.00, but ooohhh the $4.99 handling fee did hurt...

Never trust some meat head at an LHS. Check around the local rinks to get recommendations on someone you can trust. After many more than 1 or 2 recommendations, then make sure you let the guy know he was specifically recommended, and who by, then you might get support that would equal the online 25% savings. It will never equal the 77% savings though.

I'm not saying they are all bad. It is rare to find good ones, and guys who think they are really being tricky, like "oh we don't have your size right now..." because "oh my go@#$, I heard him say he's just sizing for an online purchase", are the ones giving LHS's a bad name! Costomers can sence a lie, they may not know exactly what part you've stated is full of sh!@#$, but they know they won't ever trust you again, and in turn will never give you a second shot to win them over once they've been turned on to a online shop.

...But hey, you really showed him...

BTW, Perani's is one of the worst.

Post of the topic. Well said.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

No, the guy was blatantly using DarkStar to make sure what size his son was then going online. He had it already set in his mind that he was doing it - and it is VERY hard to sway someone from that mindset.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

I had the parents and the 14 year old in the shop last week-end looking at Vapor XXX. I heard the dad the say try them on and then we'll order online. They stood around waiting for help. I asked and they said they wanted to try on skates, Vapor XXX. I asked if they were ready to buy today. "Oh maybe." That is the part where the customer lies to the shop guy. I ask him what skates is he wearing. "Easton 500." Hmm, quite a jump to Vapor XXX. I measure his foot and go check stock. I'll let you decide whether or not I had his size in stock and let him try them on.

Where's your shop located? I want to know which one to avoid.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

You guys can't picture it because you haven't been in our shoes. If the guy did not make that comment, Darkstar would've given him over 25 years of expertise for naught.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

You guys can't picture it because you haven't been in our shoes. If the guy did not make that comment, Darkstar would've given him over 25 years of expertise for naught.

Just because he doesn't buy that pair of skates from him doesn't mean he won't come back and buy another product or service from your store. If that customer heard his "25 years of expertise", I'm sure he would come back to that store because they know what they're talking about. But by saying "no, we don't have your size" they're less likely to return for something else. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't shop at places where they're always out of stock of things.

[hockeydoc 0]

No, the guy was blatantly using DarkStar to make sure what size his son was then going online. He had it already set in his mind that he was doing it - and it is VERY hard to sway someone from that mindset.

Maybe true. However anyone in sales knows that 75% of your job is to get the prospective cust. to take a look at your product. Once you've done that you've won. XXX's are not being cleared out anywhere and that's no secret. I guarantee if I had the guy in my shop he would have walked out with a new pair of skates. But as a salesmen if you think you lost the sale, than you did! But in Dark stars case the customer gave him the amunition to easily win him over...

Also, lets say you give this cust. the full treatment and he still goes to the online shop and buys. He'll be back again with some other issue at some point in time, (he does have a 14 year old in hockey), and when he does he's going to remember the old we don't have your size trick. In contrast he would definitely remember the special attention, had that happened, and not have his mind made up before he get's to you.

Again, I know w/ 100% certainty that If I had a customer say something like that he would have walked out w/ my product!!!

You guys can't picture it because you haven't been in our shoes. If the guy did not make that comment, Darkstar would've given him over 25 years of expertise for naught.

Just because he doesn't buy that pair of skates from him doesn't mean he won't come back and buy another product or service from your store. If that customer heard his "25 years of expertise", I'm sure he would come back to that store because they know what they're talking about. But by saying "no, we don't have your size" they're less likely to return for something else. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't shop at places where they're always out of stock of things.

"Ditto"

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Not necessarily the way it works in this business - the product is the same at the online store. What differs is that we are selling the customer a service.

It all boils down to what the customer wants - does he want service, or does he want a cheap deal?

If he wants a cheap deal and the LHS is more money, then it is unethical for him to go into that LHS and use them to solidify their online purchase (ensuring fit).

We are honest with customers and we expect them to be honest with us. I've been burned over the years, and at my store, we price match Internet. Not sure if DarkStar does, but if he does I'm positive he would've thrown in that line somewhere during the fitting, as well as highlighting the benefits on buying in the store. However, the customer had already stated that he was going to buy online. That's not even a lost sale, that's just wrong.

I had an incident a few mos ago with someone who "shopped" me for their size. Even gave me "contact info." Turns out the number was bogus, got their size and off they went. I see them in the store from time to time. Do I even approach them?

[mew1838 0]

Not necessarily the way it works in this business - the product is the same at the online store. What differs is that we are selling the customer a service.

It all boils down to what the customer wants - does he want service, or does he want a cheap deal?

If he wants a cheap deal and the LHS is more money, then it is unethical for him to go into that LHS and use them to solidify their online purchase (ensuring fit).

We are honest with customers and we expect them to be honest with us. I've been burned over the years, and at my store, we price match Internet. Not sure if DarkStar does, but if he does I'm positive he would've thrown in that line somewhere during the fitting, as well as highlighting the benefits on buying in the store. However, the customer had already stated that he was going to buy online. That's not even a lost sale, that's just wrong.

I had an incident a few mos ago with someone who "shopped" me for their size. Even gave me "contact info." Turns out the number was bogus, got their size and off they went. I see them in the store from time to time. Do I even approach them?

Sorry to hear that JR, it it was you who fitted me, I wouldn't even consider buying skates elsewhere.

[DarkStar50 679]

Now that I've stirred up the hornet's rest, here is the rest of what happened and how it happens. This was a tournament week-end in the building. There were over 30 teams in the building, A and B levels. These prospective customers were from a team out of the area. After hearing Dad clearly say "Try them on and we can order them online.", I knew they were A. never going to buy the skates from me and B. probably never be in the building again. After 25 + years of working in the hockey industry at retail, I think I know how to read body language, among other things, from a prospective customer. As JR says, after you have been burned more than once, twice, 10 times, it gets a little easier to separate your prospects from your suspects. Not that it matters to anyone else, but the week-ends are very busy in the pro shop. If I think I have a 1% chance of moving forward to make a sale, I start the process. However, when time and availability of staff factors into the equation, I make a judgement call. I do what I have to do. At the end of the day, this is a business, not a catalog showroom for internet shoppers.

Now for those who think I should try my sales pitch, thats wonderful. I will come into your place of business and see how good you can talk up the product, knowing full well I'm buying online and really just want to hear from you all the knowledge I need to know to make an educated buy online, with no guesswork.

The customer was already looking at the product, as far as that goes. There was no selling of the product necessary. He was totally shopping price. I do not match the internet. If you want to shop internet, please do so. There was no little to no chance for service down the road with this customer as he is not from the area.

Finally, none of you know for sure if I had the skates in stock or not. So, before you decide to take a shot at me be sure you know the answer to that.

[hockeydoc 0]

We've all been shafted some how, customers and salesmen. But the fact that you've seen him in your store proves my point. I've read a lot of your posts and therefore could pressume that you are one of the good guys, and IMO if you were the owner you would be less apt to look at these sneaky little customers as guys you don't want to deal with, but instead look at them as possible $$ in your pocket. If his $$ directly affected yours than you wouldn't care what he said or did in the past.

BTW I don't like dealing with commissioned sales people either, but they do have a different perspective.

I will buy from anyone I trust, no matter the cost. Most guys that are trust worthy I will even tell that I am going to buy online, unless he can help me out. If the guys is honest he will work to get me the best deal he can, and understand if it's a lot less online. But inturn will know they've won a valueble customer, but maybe lost this sale. Most guys in hockey can afford and will afford to pay more when dealing with someone they think is a friend, or at least someone they trust (even if they themselves are not trust worthy). I know a lot of cust. are full of it, but they are not on the job representing when they come in the store...The salesperson is.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

But the fact that you've seen him in your store proves my point.

This was a tournament week-end in the building. There were over 30 teams in the building, A and B levels. These prospective customers were from a team out of the area. After hearing Dad clearly say "Try them on and we can order them online.", I knew they were A. never going to buy the skates from me and B. probably never be in the building again.

[DarkStar50 679]

I just want to clarify your comment about $$: His $$ or decision not to spend(which he has already made) does effect me and the shop because the time I spend/waste with him, I could be using to help a customer who is ready to purchase something(even tape or a sharpening(a service thing!!). You know the old saying: Time is money.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Trust is a two-way street - just like honesty. If the guy does not trust DS, why should DS trust him?

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

Now that I've stirred up the hornet's rest, here is the rest of what happened and how it happens. This was a tournament week-end in the building. There were over 30 teams in the building, A and B levels. These prospective customers were from a team out of the area. After hearing Dad clearly say "Try them on and we can order them online.", I knew they were A. never going to buy the skates from me and B. probably never be in the building again. After 25 + years of working in the hockey industry at retail, I think I know how to read body language, among other things, from a prospective customer. As JR says, after you have been burned more than once, twice, 10 times, it gets a little easier to separate your prospects from your suspects. Not that it matters to anyone else, but the week-ends are very busy in the pro shop. If I think I have a 1% chance of moving forward to make a sale, I start the process. However, when time and availability of staff factors into the equation, I make a judgement call. I do what I have to do. At the end of the day, this is a business, not a catalog showroom for internet shoppers.

Now for those who think I should try my sales pitch, thats wonderful. I will come into your place of business and see how good you can talk up the product, knowing full well I'm buying online and really just want to hear from you all the knowledge I need to know to make an educated buy online, with no guesswork.

The customer was already looking at the product, as far as that goes. There was no selling of the product necessary. He was totally shopping price. I do not match the internet. If you want to shop internet, please do so. There was no little to no chance for service down the road with this customer as he is not from the area.

Finally, none of you know for sure if I had the skates in stock or not. So, before you decide to take a shot at me be sure you know the answer to that.

That post just cemented my decision to never step foot in a shop you work for.

[DarkStar50 679]

I look forward to never seeing you.

[hockeydoc 0]

Finally, none of you know for sure if I had the skates in stock or not. So, before you decide to take a shot at me be sure you know the answer to that.

BTW, not intended as shots for salesmenship. You expressed a shot, 'if you will,' at a generic cust. (more specifically at online shoppers in general) by implying that you lied back to him. That's not a braggable action. If you have 25 years experience in sales than you truly knew to blow him off appropriatly, but to let us all know that after 25 years experience that's best you could do opens you up to some constructive criticisms. I'm sure you could come up with a stronger aruement for LHS's than that...

No Offense...

[DarkStar50 679]

I am not arguing for the LHS. In fact a few posts before, I said to shop online, by all means. I am not bragging about anything I did or didn't do. I am just relaying a story. Take it for what its worth.

We have had this discussion repeatedly on MSH. I guess my point is that it still goes on and will continue to happen forever. I have no problem with that. Its interesting to see who has a burr under their saddle, that's all.

[hockeydoc 0]

I am not arguing for the LHS. In fact a few posts before, I said to shop online, by all means. I am not bragging about anything I did or didn't do. I am just relaying a story. Take it for what its worth.

We have had this discussion repeatedly on MSH. I guess my point is that it still goes on and will continue to happen forever. I have no problem with that. Its interesting to see who has a burr under their saddle, that's all.

That's a funny comment for a guy from Jersey talking to a guy from Texas :lol:

[DarkStar50 679]

Yes, its an old Keith Jackson line: "The Longhorns are on the goal line now and knocking at the door. That Earl Campbell looks mad enough to think he's got a burr under his saddle."

[Jim A 4]

hockeydoc, I sure hope you're not talking about the guys on Monday nights to whom you look for advice! how's the knee doing?

every LHS has people who shop them for the 'net..it sucks..I've been on both sides..plus at a destination place like the Giant there are people who come in each weekend just to try stuff on, flex sticks..run around..almost like child care...

on that side you have to work with the customers you think are going to buy products...on any given weekend DS and his crew can stay busy all day long fitting, servicing and working with people who are truly going to buy items at his store..how frustrating is it to have that size 9.5 on a kid's foot you know is going to buy online yet the customer who just needs to try it on so they can buy it is waiting for the other kid to stop f'ing around..

[hockeydoc 0]

You are the one I trust for advice! :lol:

Knees good, how's yours? You looked good whipping those northsiders Monday.

It's good to be feeling well on skates again!!

I know exactly what you are talking about, I worked Wicked Stick for a while when I was looking into buying it. Hockey Giants online service is great BTW! ;)

[AnthonyJTa 0]

well, based on my experiences going back to when I first started playing....

Going into a shop is by far the best avenue. Shops can charge upwards of $50 to heatmold your skates, if you did NOT purchase them there.... now with the ratio of heatmoldable skates to not? Chances are you'll need to get them molded. My lhs also offers free conturing with each skates purchase.... they know not every set of steel is consistant. They've even thrown me free replacement laces (I prefer wax)..

When I first started, I went to my lhs, and tried on about 8-10 pairs of skates... a luxury I did not have with an online retailer. The rep offered all sorts of insight to me- the novice player, which I never would have known.

I see it this way... the extra $20-$40 I may spend in the lhs is for superior service, and a commitment to my satisfaction. Are there rude people working in shops? Potentially.. but you just move on, and meet with another rep.

My biggest pet peeve as a CUSTOMER is to hear other customers say "Well,, I'm just going to try it on, and buy it online"...

can't take the $$ with you, people..

[Jim A 4]

it comes down to one's LHS...but in the end they have to provide service...for every DS or JR..there are 10 people who don't know what they are doing...

I needed to get a skate remounted recently..went into a shop that mentioned they'd be too busy over the weekend to do it...bought a roll of tape on Fri at noon..then went back on Sunday to get another roll of tape...less than 20 sales total the 2.5 days judging by receipt #'s (1 register)...I understand you may/may not be able to get to it..i'm not asking for a promise..but hey..its only 2 holes that need to be redrilled..total time 40 min from start to finish max...but better to watch college and pro football while at work without disruption..

early adopters will go online to get it first...the middle of the bell curve will get from the LHS for the same price...the rest will wait and jump on the inevitable online dump that also coincides with jimmy developing another nervous tic complaining about the online stores (jk)

I can't say that there's one good shop here in the DFW area that I would give up online retail for...some good salespeople..but in the end..they move on...instead of deciding which store I have to drive to in order to buy something for the same or slightly higher price, i'll sit at home..beer in hand and get the same lack of service online...

[hockeydoc 0]

it comes down to one's LHS...but in the end they have to provide service...for every DS or JR..there are 10 people who don't know what they are doing...

I needed to get a skate remounted recently..went into a shop that mentioned they'd be too busy over the weekend to do it...bought a roll of tape on Fri at noon..then went back on Sunday to get another roll of tape...less than 20 sales total the 2.5 days judging by receipt #'s (1 register)...I understand you may/may not be able to get to it..i'm not asking for a promise..but hey..its only 2 holes that need to be redrilled..total time 40 min from start to finish max...but better to watch college and pro football while at work without disruption..

early adopters will go online to get it first...the middle of the bell curve will get from the LHS for the same price...the rest will wait and jump on the inevitable online dump that also coincides with jimmy developing another nervous tic complaining about the online stores (jk)

I can't say that there's one good shop here in the DFW area that I would give up online retail for...some good salespeople..but in the end..they move on...instead of deciding which store I have to drive to in order to buy something for the same or slightly higher price, i'll sit at home..beer in hand and get the same lack of service online...

well said....