Bertuzzi charged with assault

[Chadd 916]

Where's the line between drawn?

When is it "hockey violence" and "street violence"?

I have mixed feelings on the situation, but feel the police have no place for on ice actions. Off ice I can see, but on ice is a differen't story and situation.

I agree that it's a tough situation but the police have only been involved in a handful of incidents over the years. I don't feel they needed to get involved in the McSorely situation but since they did, and I feel this is worse, they really have little choice.

[kosydar 0]

The thing is, how many times are instances in a hockey game considered illegal by street laws? If you want to get technical, every check could be considered assault. However, in this case it was Todd's vowing revenge that I think will get him in the most trouble.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I agree completely, this goes far beyond the Bertuzzi incident. I understand and knew the police would be involved. It doesn't mean I agree with it or like it. My question is why nobody was charged when the girl in (columbus I believe) died from the puck going over the glass that was an awful result, or when Domi sucker punched Ulfie, that was vicious attack on an unsuspecting player. Is it the act or the result they are charging people with? Half and half? You need both?

I wonder if Moore asked for him to be charged

[Chadd 916]

So far the police in every market have done a good job of staying uninvolved. The Vancouver PD screwed themselves by getting involved with the last incident and had no choice this time.

The Brittany Cecil thing was due more to medical malpractice than anything as she was not treated properly for her injuries.

[stevo 0]

I wonder if Moore asked for him to be charged

I don't doubt it. And I'm sure the civil lawsuit is next.

[kosydar 0]

Now is a wonderful time to sue the league, with the whole CBA and everything. I'd be pretty disappointed and I'd lose a lot of respect if Moore sued the NHL. He has nothing but money to gain, while possibly screwing the league's negotiations over even further. It isn't like suing them would help his recovery progress. I'm pretty against lawsuits as it is, but for him to sue the league would be ridiculous.

[MDE3 0]

Earlier someone mentioned that "technically everytime someone threw a check it could be considered assault"

I believe there are a couple of bodies of law which are specific to this type of incident. Those which allow a sport to govern itself under it's own rules, as along as the transgressions can be properly addressed within those rules and where those rules do not step dramatically outside the protection of an individual provided by criminal law. For Example: a group attends a paintball event and someone substitutes ball bearings for paintballs..resulting in a grevous injury. This sort of action would be demonstrably premeditated, have no other purpose but to injure someone, and impunes the rights of an individual who has the right to expect to be protected from this sort of assault whether he is involved in a game which has people "shooting people" or not.

In civil law, there are rules governing "accepted convention" which deal with behaviour that falls within "unwritten rules' for which there is demonstrable history.

In either case the type and severiity of the actions taken by Bertuzzi were such that the individual (Moore) did not have the opportunity to protect himself from this type of assault, and he had no reason to expect that such an assault would be construed as "part of the game". He had the "right" to feel he would be protected from this sort of brutal attack even within a liberal interpretation of the unwritten rules of the game..

Hence the type of attack, as well as the results of the attack become a breach both of criminal law as well as civil law. because there is no provision within the rules of hockey to mete out punishment which fits the crime. As has been observed....the fact that Moore is alive....is by good fortune not good mangement...the fact that Bertuzzi's action could have caused an even more serious injury or death must be taken into account.

Those of you who are players reading this obviously have mixed views about the authorities "meddling" with the game.....however if you were the victim, or your child perhaps a victim, what stand would you take????

[ponty 0]

For me its simple. What Bert did crossed the boundaries of the game. Since this was crossed extra measures need to be applied. Lets not lose sight that the activities in the game went beyond Bert earlier on.

Payback in the minds of the Canucks organization was number one on their list.

[kosydar 0]

Agreed Ponty, but I don't think its right to let the courts decide what the boundaries are, I think that's the league's job.

[chippa13 1844]

All I have to say is I think Gary Bettman is really screwing up this league. I have a feeling he was pushing that the cops get involved. I wish he would jsut leave the NHL alone, the man never even played hockey. Oh and BTW I doubt that Moore will sue Bert. I think like kosy mentioned hockey players have their own "law" of sort, and we will see what happens.

There is no way Bettman was pushing for legal action. Like everyone else associated with the NHL, he wants this circus to end. The NHL is going to get enough negative press with the upcoming lockout and they don't need this situation with Bertuzzi to keep going along with it.

Sure, hockey players have their own law but ask any enforcer in the league and they will tell you that Bertuzzi's actions did not follow along with the code of the game.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I'm not so sure. I was involved in incidents almost Identical to the Bert situation twice this year. Both ended up in concussions, one a bit worse. We've talked about this in a few different threads. Players play their role and have to expect certain things. Moore did not deserve this nor should he have expected it. However the way the NHL is now he should've expected some sort of retaliation from the Vancouver players. He should've been willing to fight. Whether it is right that he should be expected to fight for what some believe to be a clean hit or not, when you do something like that to what may be the NHLs best player you need to expect something. I do not agree with what Bert did, but I don't think he is 100% to blame either, he was frustrated and I believe he intended to stun him into fighting. I've seen alot of fighters do this, he let his emotions get the better of him, however I don't think he should pay through the ways of the law.

[Chadd 916]

I'm not so sure. I was involved in incidents almost Identical to the Bert situation twice this year. Both ended up in concussions, one a bit worse. We've talked about this in a few different threads. Players play their role and have to expect certain things. Moore did not deserve this nor should he have expected it. However the way the NHL is now he should've expected some sort of retaliation from the Vancouver players. He should've been willing to fight. Whether it is right that he should be expected to fight for what some believe to be a clean hit or not, when you do something like that to what may be the NHLs best player you need to expect something. I do not agree with what Bert did, but I don't think he is 100% to blame either, he was frustrated and I believe he intended to stun him into fighting. I've seen alot of fighters do this, he let his emotions get the better of him, however I don't think he should pay through the ways of the law.

Wait a minute. Moore did fight the first Canuck to challenge him. I believe it was Cooke who challenged Moore and by nearly every interpretation of "the code" that should have been the end of it.

To say that Bertuzzi is not 100% responsible for his actions is wrong and a dangerous precedent to set. If he was so upset about what Moore did, why not go after him as soon as Moore hit Naslund? Why not get him the next game they played? To wait 10 days and punch him in the back of the head is a chicken shit way to resolve the problem.

[crosskore 0]

Well, I may be mistaken, but didnt Bert follow him around the ice for a while trying to fight him? But he just kep skating away? Moore kept backing down and turning away from him, so I think Bert just got fed up and smacked him in the back. If Moore would have just fought him, none of this would have happend I think.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I have no Idea why he didn't go after Moore right after the hit, maybe he wasn't on the ice, maybe they didn't let Moore play after that. I remember Florida's coach did a similar thing after one of his players sucker punched McCabe a little while ago. He wouldn't let him on the ice because he knew he'd just get jumped. Maybe you are right that Bert is 100% afterall everyone is responsible for their own actions. I just feel Moore, as well as Bertuzzi, went about that situation the wrong way. Just like if I was the Avs, Next time Bertuzzi played I'd have Worrel go after'em. Maybe I am remembering this wrong, but didn't Lemieux have to fight more than once after he hammered Draper from behind? And it wasn't Kirk Maltby.

[Smith 0]

Well, I may be mistaken, but didnt Bert follow him around the ice for a while trying to fight him? But he just kep skating away? Moore kept backing down and turning away from him, so I think Bert just got fed up and smacked him in the back. If Moore would have just fought him, none of this would have happend I think.

So are you saying blame Moore? It is 100% Berts fault.

[Chadd 916]

First of all after Moore fought Cook, Granato told the team it was over and get back to playing hockey, Crawford never had that conversation with his team. There is no reason whatsoever that Moore should have had to fight Bertuzzi, he was just pissed about a game that was 7-0 or so by then and decided he had nothing to lose by sucker punching Moore. If they had been face to face and Bertuzzi punched him, I would agree that there was no reason to get the police involved.

The facts are that Bertuzzi couldn't control his emotions and decided that it was ok to jump a guy that wasn't looking. As a coach, perhaps Crawford deserves some of the blame by putting a man out there who was unable to control his emotions or by not doing something to calm him down. Ultimately it was a decision that Bert made and while he apologized for Moore being hurt he never apologized for what he did. I think that shows his mindset. I also think that something needs to happen so dipshits like that think twice about doing something like that again.

As for Lemieux, he got jumped as soon as he hit draper and turtled. He ducked fights for at least a game or two until he switched sides and lined up against McCarty and took his punishment. Moore took his medicine the first time he was challenged, it should have been over at that point.

[Bo from Boston 0]

I think something of this magnitude needs to be addressed outside the league. What if Moore had died? The theme hear suggests that the NHL should hand out the sentence which is as far from what should happen as could be. I think the players will respond if they know that intent to injure penalties where the player is seriously injured will need to come before people who can effect their freedom, not their wallet.

[Chadd 916]

If this was some chump who wasn't worth a crap who suckerpunched a star, the hockey community would be outraged and demanding his head on a platter.

[crosskore 0]

I'am not saying it was his fault because he didnt fight. What Ia'm saying is, Bert wantedto fight him and Moore didnt, obviously because he would get owned, but its kind of ironic that he didnt fight because he didnt want to get hurt, and that hurt him more then a fight would. THats all I'am saying.

[Chadd 916]

I'am not saying it was his fault because he didnt fight. What Ia'm saying is, Bert wantedto fight him and Moore didnt, obviously because he would get owned, but its kind of ironic that he didnt fight because he didnt want to get hurt, and that hurt him more then a fight would. THats all I'am saying.

Moore was told not to fight anymore, it had nothing to do with getting owned. So, by your reasoning, Naslund should have to fight Worrell if he was challenged. It's alright to be a fan and want to protect a guy on your team, but his actions are unacceptable in society or even the NHL.

It's just funny how it didn't seem to bother Bertuzzi during the game it happened or the next game they played in Colorado but back in Vancouver while the team was getting owned he just couldn't let Moore's bodycheck from 10 days ago go by without additional retaliation? Bullshit.

[Bo from Boston 0]

I hope he brings the onion he cut up to cry during his press conference to the courtroom so he gets some sympathy.

His name is forever tarnished...it'll be like OJ (well, not as bad). Nobody will remember all the great things, just the incident.

[stevo 0]

Nah, Bertuzzi will pay his fine, do some community service, get reinstated, resume playing all-star calibre hockey and people will forget all about this. If you watch ESPN ever you'd notice how little they are actually publicizing the assault charge. This is not even close to OJ, it's no Pete Rose, not Ray Carruth or Ray Lewis, as a matter of fact, it's not even getting as much publicity as Montgomery/Bonds. It will blow over. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bertuzzi fills in for someone on Canada at the World Cup.

[Chadd 916]

The fact Bertuzzi has treated nearly everyone in the media like shit over the years makes me think there will be very few people saying nice things about him for a while.

He won't play in the WC as the NHL has no plans to reinstate him until he has a meeting with Bettman and that has yet to be scheduled. Assuming this goes to court, the NHL will not have that meeting until the trial is over. If he is found guilty in any way, he will not be reinstated before the start of the season. Add to that Gretz won't add a player with that hanging over his head to the WC team when he has other players that won't bring that type of baggage.

[Chez 0]

Bertuzzi's a faggot

[kosydar 0]

Way to add a mature comment to the convo Chez.