Tootoo's sucker punch

[CHIEF22 0]

i think the biggest question that needs to be asked is why people feel the need to start fights after a hard, clean hit. Tootoo is in the wrong, but so is Robidas, as well as Modano for that matter, it is astounding he got off clean. On one hand you appreciate a teammate sticking up for you, but on the other, you look like a pansy if every time you get hit someone comes flying in to defend you like a someone just hit on his girlfriend while you went to the bathroom.

Bingo!!!! That is all I asked a few pages back...

[Chadd 916]

And Modano doesn't even go after Tootoo in a shot that DID deserve retribution (one on Robidas). Tisk tisk on Modano

But for good measure, Modano was thinking very strongly about chopping up Tootoo after the hit, but only went through the motion at 20% strength. What do you think of that, Chadd?

I think Modano should have dropped the gloves and gone after Tootoo.

[DarkStar50 679]

Yeah and Crosby should have dropped the gloves last year after Hatcher crosschecked him in the mouth but that didn't happen did it?

It is ok if there is a majority or minority of opinions on the Tootoo incident. This NHL moment, like all the rest that came before it and the ugly ones still to come will have a lot of different sides to it. The bottom line to remember is that none of us here play in this league at that level of risk. We know what is in the NHL rulebook. We also know that players will always go over the line in the NHL. They always have. They always will. The NHL is in another galaxy as far as any of us should be concerned with how they play the game. Ultimately, whether we think the incidents are part of the game or not, we don't play the game they play in the NHL. We can agree to disagree whether Tootoo threw a dirty sucker punch or if Robi should have had a better plan of attack when he was circling in for Tootoo. If its Bertuzzi/Moore, Domi/Neidermayer, or all the way back to Ted Green and Wayne Maki, there is potential and risk for serious injury through accidental contact or malicious intent every night in the NHL. We can say its right or wrong, part of the game or not, but this is the price the NHL player is willing to pay for signing the contract. We play for pleasure. They play for pay. None of this makes it right or acceptable. It is the NHL game the way they play it. We should try to accept it or move on. The players have accepted it, even with all the risk.

[Chadd 916]

The number of incidents has increased significantly in recent years. That shows that there are more problems with guys crossing the line than ever before and that should be a concern for the league.

[DarkStar50 679]

I agree with that. The players at the bottom of the roster are creating 90% of the problems. I think Colin Campbell does a pretty good job but would love to see him get tougher with suspensions. The constant checks into the glass from behind or close enough are the start of many problems. I'll say it again: there is less respect among players. They worried more about Ted Saskin than they do about each other. Thats ass backwards to me.

[TheSnake22 0]

Almost started a new topic but i thought better of it...

I just saw something else that made me hotter than a tea-kettle so i have to vent. Pens-Isles game tonight, Colby Armstrong flattens Jason Blake with a big but very clean hit. Feet not moving, arms down. 100 percent clean and legal. Next thing you know here comes Tom Poti with gloves flying off to pound Armstrong into the ground. Lucky for Colbs, he was also shaken by the hit and was clearly out of it so Poti layed off somewhat when he didn't defend himself whatsoever, but Poti was still penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct. What the hell is going on in this league? Are people looking for an excuse to fight or are we to the point where no one can take a hit? Does a coach demand this kind of protection or are the Modano's of the world paying other players to come to their aid whenever they get touched up a bit? If Robidas didn't pull a U-turn, we wouldn't be talking about anyone getting punched in the face and being suspended. It concerns me even more that as far as i know, Robidas and Poti aren't really fighters or dirty players for that matter.

Sidenote: was it on this board that someone mentioned or suggested possible legal action against espn for purposely bad-mouthing the nhl at every opportunity and intentionally trying to set the game back? just asking because i heard some anchor throw in a snide remark while playing the higlight of the fedoruk knockout, saying something along the lines of, "and they say people never get hurt in hockey fights..." i dont think you hear the anchors dropping cheap shots on too many other sports on the air...

[Chadd 916]

There's nothing wrong with a guy sticking up for a teammate. In fact, I think it's a good thing.

[Doctor Hook 0]

Almost started a new topic but i thought better of it...

I just saw something else that made me hotter than a tea-kettle so i have to vent. Pens-Isles game tonight, Colby Armstrong flattens Jason Blake with a big but very clean hit. Feet not moving, arms down. 100 percent clean and legal. Next thing you know here comes Tom Poti with gloves flying off to pound Armstrong into the ground. Lucky for Colbs, he was also shaken by the hit and was clearly out of it so Poti layed off somewhat when he didn't defend himself whatsoever, but Poti was still penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct. What the hell is going on in this league? Are people looking for an excuse to fight or are we to the point where no one can take a hit? Does a coach demand this kind of protection or are the Modano's of the world paying other players to come to their aid whenever they get touched up a bit?

There's a code in the NHL where if you hit a star player, even with a clean hit, you will have to fight somebody for it. This it to protect star players from getting run into the ground. It's just the way it is in the pro game.

[TheSnake22 0]

Chadd - I strongly disagree that it is okay to jump someone for a clean hit. Of course there is nothing wrong with sticking up for someone if it's a cheap shot. However players look like morons and goons when they go ape shit over something that is well within the rules.

Hook - You said fight. There was no attempt to square up by either Robidas or Poti. That is not fighting someone, that is trying to mug someone. I disagree that this code you speak of includes clean hits, but that doesn't figure in to my argument since like i said, neither wanted a fight, only retribution. But usually, fighters tend to go after other fighters to get the team motivated or send a message, not try to pummel a good physical player for making a clean hit.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Robidas isn't capable of fighting Tootoo. I showed link to a similar play by Komisarek, and how a real fighter (Neil) handles it. It might be cheap what Robidas and Komisarek did, but theres definately a good way to handle it and Tootoo was never in any real danger.

[TheSnake22 0]

Maybe so, and nowhere do i defend Tootoo, i'm saying that it wouldn't have happened if Robidas stayed in the play as opposed to going to look for trouble. That's my argument, that there wasn't a reason to even approach Tootoo while the play was still going on, and nothing happened that merited his reaction. Wasn't like Modano was knocked out, hurt or shaken, although i can't tell from the clip if he's crying or not...

[Chadd 916]

Chadd - I strongly disagree that it is okay to jump someone for a clean hit. Of course there is nothing wrong with sticking up for someone if it's a cheap shot. However players look like morons and goons when they go ape shit over something that is well within the rules.

I didn't see the Armstrong play so I can't comment on that but the Robidas/Tootoo play was not someone going "ape shit". Tootoo runs around throwing borderline hits all the time, there is nothing wrong with someone coming in and letting him know that it won't be tolerated. The Penguins should have been doing that for Crosby all along.

[TheSnake22 0]

Okay fair enough, he wasn't going "ape shit" and maybe neither was Poti, but it wasn't like he was coasting by and casually mentioning not to do that again, or even maybe going to give him tussle and a face wash. Robidas was going directly at Tootoo with an intent. I can't speculate on what the intent was, but he was definitely moving with purpose more than to let him know it wont be tolerated. And with Crosby, i've seen him get layed out by a clean hit exactly 1 time, on a suicide pass, and the person who made the pass immediately went after the Witt, the Isle who decked him, more so in this case to make it up to Sid for getting him layed out, not because the hit was dirty or unacceptable. It would be hypocritical for me to say that is okay, but at least he had some reason, and he let the guy know that they needed to fight. Usually the situations involving Crosby are more centered around slashes, high sticks or elbows as opposed to him getting flattened by clean hits or even late hits as he rarely puts himself in that position. Sid may get fired up over what he believes are cheap shots but i've never seen him slash someone over the back after a clean hit.

Maybe Tootoo deserved to be sent a message, but so did Holloweg. There are ways within the rules to do so. Obviously what Simon did was well outside of them, and i believe that what Robidas did is no different that instigating or being the third man in, also things that are outside the rules.

[Chadd 916]

Maybe Tootoo deserved to be sent a message, but so did Holloweg. There are ways within the rules to do so. Obviously what Simon did was well outside of them, and i believe that what Robidas did is no different that instigating or being the third man in, also things that are outside the rules.

Robidas was given a minor for charging, so the officials agree that his actions violated a rule. I have no problem with them handing out a charge, he deserved it. That said, standing up for a teammate is a good thing. Saying that is was no different than instigating or being third man in is just plain asinine.

[TheSnake22 0]

No need to be disrespectful because you disagree with my opinion, nowhere in my posts did i call anything you said "asinine." I believe that someone jumping in to start a fight after a clean hit is a growing problem that should be addressed in the same manner as the instigation rule or the third man in rule. I disapprove of the crap that players like Tootoo and Hollweg pull too, and maybe if Campbell pulled his head out of his ass and realized that players of that nature are a huge part of the problem, players wouldn't feel the need to go out of their way to police them, which is basically stooping to their level.

[DarkStar50 679]

Modano, Tootoo, and Robi = 3 players. Robi was last man to join so he was third man in. Problem was he was also first man out. He had to get a charging penalty. Two minutes for roughing would not have matched the end result!

[Chadd 916]

Modano, Tootoo, and Robi = 3 players. Robi was last man to join so he was third man in. Problem was he was also first man out. He had to get a charging penalty. Two minutes for roughing would not have matched the end result!

No penalty was assessed on the initial hit, ergo there is no way a third man in penalty is remotely applicable at any level. At the NHL level I have never seen it handed out for anything short of joining a fight.

I do agree that he deserved a penalty for charging though.

[Razr 2]

Wht did you guys think of it? I thought it was totally unnecessary and would like to see him suspended for at least 5 games. This kind of crap seems to be happening more and more.

I don't think it was a "sucker" punch, he laid a clean hit on Modano, turned around and Robidas was flying at him with the intent to attack Tootoo, I think Tootoo was pretty much defending himself, Tootoo is not a Cheap player, he's not Bertuzzi, to come up and whack a guy and potentially end his career. I think the suspension is unnecessary, although it sucks that Robidas was injured.

That is no where near the severity of the Chris Simon incident or the Marty McSorely hits. Or Bertuzzi for that matter.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Tootoo has a reputation as a dirty player. His reputation is worse than Bert's before the incident.