Leg length discrepency (Important read for back pain)

[djinferno 2]

Hi, I’ve been doing research for a while and I wanted to share my findings and maybe help others that I’ve seen with issues...

Background:

About two years ago, i had a problem with a pair of Graf skates I purchased, they had a warped sole, I knew they where wrong since I was replacing the same skate and I used them barefoot, anyone who ever used barefoot knows that you feel any kind of variation etc... Anyway, my LHS sent them back to Graf to get them replaced but Graf refused and try to repair them instead... So when my local hockey store got them back, they told me to give them a try...

So while trying them, I took a awful spill and actually hurt my back, I was out for 8 months as a result and even though I can't say that the skates did it, I think they did...

Here’s a post I made about the problem...

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...ic=4840&hl=

Post Injury

A Rep from Mission on this board decided to take the defective Grafs and Give me there products equivalent, mind you I was very thankful of this gesture... So i started skating again, slowly building up to get back into game shape, as I was doing this, I noticed that I had a hard time using my edge on one skate (The other foot this time) so I decided to go back to my old skates to compare, same problem so i attributed it to being off the ice for so long and gaining 20 pounds.... So I kept at it and before long I was back in games, mind you the edge problem was still there, not enough for concern but enough to be annoying, plus now I was getting foot pains and lower back pains.... I attributed that to being older and having had a back injury (Obviously right?)

Here’s what my foot was doing

Tried doing something about it

After talking to guys on MSH about the problem, everyone seemed to be pointing towards Orthotics or shimming so after shimming failed I decided to get some orthotics made for me, I could not hurt right? Wrong! They actually made the one foot worst, so i was like It takes time to get use to em, at the price I paid for em, they got to work.... I wore them for six months every day but for the life of me, that one foot would start screaming before the day was done... Plus I could not skate with it, that one foot would track worst... So being out of Ideas I started to talk to guys around me and my LHS, Being that I was in Ottawa, they told me to go see the doctor for the Ottawa 67's (OHL team). If someone can help, he can. I tried to contact the guy from the Ottawa Senators but he’s impossible to reach, he’s a full time staff so...

Findings

So i go to see the guy and bring my orthotics with me with my skates and superfeet insoles etc... He looks at all my stuff and saw that I've been trying to get this resolved... He asked me about my injury and decided he would measure my legs...

So he measures my legs like 3 times and always came up with the same numbers with maybe 1/32" difference... So he stands me up and looks at the way I stand, asks me to walk around, then he says that he does not think I need orthotics... I was like what? I just paid over 500$ for something and you are saying I don't need em? He said: "If anyone goes to see a foot doctor, any foot doctor, they will tell you, you need orthotics, if anyone goes to see a chiropractor, they will tell you, you need to be adjusted, I'm not looking at your back or your feet, I'm looking at your biomechanics..."

He says looking at you walk around, I’m sure your pelvis is tilted, I was like what? So he measures me from my hip to my ankle and 3 times he found a 1/4” difference, he said it might be only today so he booked me for a measurement the following week….

In the mean time, I jumped on the internet to research this problem, god forbid I’d be taken for my money again… I came across a guy that explained exactly what I was having for a problem as result of my injury, his name is Lee Cole and here’s his story

http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175

So this points me to his site that has an audio about this problem and a thing called posture flex, this product basically lifts the leg that track correctly by 3/32” or 1/8”.

Being that I tried everything else and that the 67’s guy was saying the same thing, I asked my LHS to put 1/8” lift under my one skate, the one that was tracking correctly….

Result

For now all I can say is that this guys theory makes sense, I felt like I felt before my injury, mind you it felt weird for about 10 minutes but my edges where there, I played for 1:30 hours, My wrist shot was rocketing of my stick something nasty and I did not need that big of a back swing, I usually felt like shit after games and was limping around the room for a couple of minutes but this time, after the game, I felt like staying out, no back pain, I was amazed, it felt like I was back to before the injury minus my foot being warped or maybe it’s the skates being that way from the stress...

Heres a audo of the product and from the .COM being SKATES, you know this guy was around before the internet exploded, it's a 10$ dollar product...

http://www.skates.com/Articles.asp?ID=135

I actually believe that many guys suffer from this problem, guys that tape the back of there skate guard to there leg IE Kovalev, guys that just can't seem to explode, guys with back problems, I know one thing, my hands, my slapshot and passing have got drasticly better as result of this problem...

If anyone can help with resolving a TILT OF THE PELVIS, please let me know...

[ExitTwoEighty 7]

thanks for the info and great read. Good looking out mission, or should i say Justin. I"m glad you found the cause to your problems.

[usahockey22 0]

Well, thanks for reposting that first thread, because I never saw it. I've been deciding on a new pair of skates, and the one thing that kept holding me back from the Grafs is the stories of terrible customer service. At the shop I mentioned to the owner (referring to the regular G series) that I had heard a lot of the Graf G skates were falling apart...he quickly tells me "Well, even if that's the case, Graf offers a FULL WARRANTY on all skates..." if THAT were the case, they would replace a pair of faulty skates.

It is obvious that Graf does not care about the customer at all, and would rather just ship out faulty products at rip-off prices. I have heard nothing but good things about customer service/warranty issues at Easton, CCM/Rbk, Nike Bauer...practically everyone but Graf. If they don't straighten their shit out, they will probably be out of the business pretty soon.

Thanks for the info in that regard, because I refuse to purchase anything from a company that treats their customers like dirt. If I were you, I would speak with a lawyer and see if there is any real case against these scumbags for causing a potential injury because they were too cheap to replace shitty skates...if you haven't already.

I hope nobody else sends their money to these clowns (Graf).

[AnthonyJTa 0]

DJ... again, I think we're in the same boat. My right shoulder is about 1/2 inch lower than my left. It's something that believe it or not, runs in my family- along with hip, knee and back problems. (The Dr has actually told my mom that with aging, her right leg is shorter than the left) That's why I'm not too quick to throw shims on my skates, because I know that fixing my skates will only help when I'm skating or playing hockey... my problem is way beyond that.

Another fantastic read though, keep me posted! My fiancee had recommended a chiropractor before...

[Guest superman20]

great post, thanks alot... someone on my team had the same problem

[chippa13 1844]

If you want to fix pelvic tilt then stop carrying the Costanza wallet.

[djinferno 2]

If you want to fix pelvic tilt then stop carrying the Costanza wallet.

if you mean wallet in back pocket, i never do that...

[hockeymom 2]

Thanks for the informative links dj. People do not have the same length of legs (or size of feet for that matter)... it is one of the contributing factors to why people find it easier to skate/stop on one side/direction versus the other. The thing that I don't understand is why your podiatrist did not measure your leg length and catch this from the get-go. Inserts can be made with different thicknesses to adjust for that.

The pro-nated illustrations you've posted certainly show why using something to sort out your foot position is pretty important. How in the world can someone correctly use their edges if their feet are that far off? As dj has shown, it is equally important to look at what is happening all the way up the leg... through the knee, hip and pelvis... for two reasons.... 1. it all has to work as an efficient lever to get the most out of your skating and 2. the shock waves from each stride travel up your body and eventually can create knee, hip, pelvic or back problems later in life.

There is not a single person on the planet that actually tracks correctly. It is a matter of degree. Finding someone who understands bio-mechanics and who also understands the mechanics of skating, is pretty critical to getting the right solution to your problem. Usually, but certainly not exclusively, that is a podiatrist.

In our case, our podiatrist (who also plays hockey) has had MissD in insoles in her regular shoes since she was 4 years old but has said the superfeet are fine for her skates. He has checked her out every year... including measuring her leg length. He figured my pro-nation problems were fairly insignificant and unless I started to get back pain, not to bother with inserts.

[djinferno 2]

Well I believe that my podiatrist relied on computer info and what my feet looked like standing still instead of looking at my biomecanics...

Also, I noticed that podiatrist who use computer stuff instead of the old fashion casting of the foot are full of bull...

The place i got my orthotics done are like a meat shop, they will get you to pay and send out some info to get you fitted but as soon as they have your money, you on your own...

Also, my podiatrist did measure my leg length and there the same but the 67's trainer measured my Pelvic to my ankle and thats where the problem is...

[jokerit1967 0]

Stevenson who played on the Philadelphia Phantoms had a problem with leg length etc. If you ever see his skates he has no shims one boot (it was a Bauer Supreme 7000) whereas the other boot has a shim/lift between the boot and the blade holder in both the front part of the blade and at the rear.... so instead of shims acting as lift for a pitch problem or change... Stevenson had equal shims under one foot both in the front and back of the boot.... estimating that i have a 3mm shim under the rear part of my boot/blade area... it looks as though he is using triple 2mm shims for an estimated lift of 6mm at the front adn 6mm at the back of the skate to compensate for the leg length difference...but supposedly he can't play anymore because this condition that he has been plagued with for years has been causing him hip problems...

[zervo 0]

Very interesting and excellent info. The actual pic of the foot looks exactly like my right ankle. I am a little bit confused. Like I said my right ankle is the one that looks like it's bruised and has looked like that for years but there is no pain. When I skate my left foot is great it feels solid and I can turn on a dime. However when it comes to my right foot I have a hard time turning and getting to the outside edge. So would I try the lifts on the left skate or the right. In your write up above you wrote to add the lifts to the leg that tracks good (my left) but the link site says to add the lifts to the right foot.

Thanks in advance for all the great information.

[djinferno 2]

Very interesting and excellent info. The actual pic of the foot looks exactly like my right ankle. I am a little bit confused. Like I said my right ankle is the one that looks like it's bruised and has looked like that for years but there is no pain. When I skate my left foot is great it feels solid and I can turn on a dime. However when it comes to my right foot I have a hard time turning and getting to the outside edge. So would I try the lifts on the left skate or the right. In your write up above you wrote to add the lifts to the leg that tracks good (my left) but the link site says to add the lifts to the right foot.

Thanks in advance for all the great information.

the guy on the site is going with the majority, I tested it and i put it on the skate that was doing good....

Essentially, I found that when your foot is doing as illustrated, the other leg is shorter...

best thing is to test it...

[jeffw 1]

I recall a few years back Mario Lemieux having hip pain that was attributed to the pelvic tilt your mention.

[Guest superman20]

isent that why mario lemieux retired and came back and then the same problem came back...

[epstud74 24]

I had the same problem, diagnosed a little too late.

[djinferno 2]

I had the same problem, diagnosed a little too late.

why do you say that? if it's caught early, it can be fixed?

[epstud74 24]

I doubt surgery will help me in my case. I've got 3-4 bulging disks, and to be honest with you, I feel like absolute crap after skating for 2-3 hours. I probably just need to hang them up for awhile, and recover slowly and build up my strength before I can just jump in and play again. My skating definitely has suffered.

It didnt help that I probably waited too long to get medical attention. I'm a rather stubborn person and at 33 I do not heal as quickly as I did when I was 18-21 years old. I have too much pride to go into a skate shop and have them adjusted to my leg length and so on, but thats what I should have done long ago.

[djinferno 2]

I doubt surgery will help me in my case. I've got 3-4 bulging disks, and to be honest with you, I feel like absolute crap after skating for 2-3 hours. I probably just need to hang them up for awhile, and recover slowly and build up my strength before I can just jump in and play again. My skating definitely has suffered.

It didn't help that I probably waited too long to get medical attention. I'm a rather stubborn person and at 33 I do not heal as quickly as I did when I was 18-21 years old. I have too much pride to go into a skate shop and have them adjusted to my leg length and so on, but thats what I should have done long ago.

wow, i don't understand where pride comes in when it comes to this, if you need a correction, you need a correction, i would never knock someone who needs anything...

[shnuggs 0]

This is a great great post. Since i got my skates i have been having similiar problem for the past year with my right foot -- causing knee and back pain -- i took 2 months off from skating hoping it was some small injury that just needed some time to heal. Although its just a matter of small increments i actually felt like my right skate/leg was slightly lower then my left -- i also started to pronate severly. I have had my right skate adjusted multiple times but to no avail.

This is a great post describes exactly what i have felt --and i will ceratinly look into more information regarding the matter.

Thanks

[djinferno 2]

if you wand to try something, but a foot bed under what you are using now, thats what i did to test, the result was breath tacking

[BGM 0]

It's not abnormal to have a leg length discrepancy--talk to any good physical therapist and they will tell you. There are excercises they can give you that will help with that. Also, some of it has to do with your lower ab strength. Most athletes have strong upper abs but not the lower. This can cause a bit of imbalance. Again, this can be corrected. Skating with a lift in one skate is not going to solve the problem. It will only train the bio-mechanics to keep doing it. I know because I had a little bit of a problem with it but got it corrected through a good PT.

[djinferno 2]

It's not abnormal to have a leg length discrepancy--talk to any good physical therapist and they will tell you. There are excercises they can give you that will help with that. Also, some of it has to do with your lower ab strength. Most athletes have strong upper abs but not the lower. This can cause a bit of imbalance. Again, this can be corrected. Skating with a lift in one skate is not going to solve the problem. It will only train the bio-mechanics to keep doing it. I know because I had a little bit of a problem with it but got it corrected through a good PT.

sorry for my ignorance but what is a PT (Im french) Also can you give details about how to fix, I agree with you that the lift won't correct, it will only help bio-mechanics... This just help me find what the problem was...

I am looking for help resolving this

heres a good illustration of what this lift is trying to prevent on skates

note the pelvic tilt is contrary to the pronation, so keep the top part the same but invert the feet

[BGM 0]

PT=physical therapist. A good exercise is lay on the side of the bed with the side (leg) that is in imbalance right where the bed drops off. While laying flat take ankle and press inward against side of the bed while keeping both legs straight.

[djinferno 2]

PT=physical therapist. A good exercise is lay on the side of the bed with the side (leg) that is in imbalance right where the bed drops off. While laying flat take ankle and press inward against side of the bed while keeping both legs straight.

for the life of me I can't understand what you mean

lay on your side (Check)

imbalance right where the bed drops off (Check)

laying flat take ankle and press inward (You lost me)

What leg am I pushing with? I am laying on the leg thats pronating? if i push inwards, I'm pushing it in the air.... Help me out here!

[jeffw 1]

isent that why mario lemieux retired and came back and then the same problem came back...

Not sure. I just remember reading an article about Mario going to Toronto to see a specialist and it talked about his pelvis being out of alignment due to a difference in the length of his legs. I searched for the article but couldn't find it.