Skate database?

[sds 0]

with so many questions on wide vs. narrow vs. deep vs. shallow... would it be possible to come up with a database that had a few measurables like forefoot width, thickness at the 3rd eyelet, width below ankle bone,etc... for a standard size, say size 9D?

although it wouldn't be a substitute for actually trying them on, it would be helpful to remove ambiguous terms from the discussion and it might help others who try on brand A to move intelligently to brand B.

[Chadd 916]

As mentioned last time this was asked;

1. Most people don't have an accurate impression of their foot shape

2. You really need to try on skates and check the fit for yourself

3. The only benefit would be to those who are buying online an skipping their LHS, something we do not endorse

4. No matter what we say about a skate, people are going to disagree with it

[TBLfan 25]

I'm all for saving a couple bucks by buying online but there are things you just can't buy online. Skates are on the top of the list. Like chadd said, you really need to try skates on first and with many brands you should probably give them a good lookover(check holders, etc) when you buy them.

Also, having worked in footwear I know that there are a lot of people that say they have a wide foot and walk out of the store with adidas shoes, adidas are the narrowest shoe out of the popular brands. Gee, I wonder why that EE width New Balance didn't fit.

You see the issue there is that people don't (often) know what width is wide for their size or "normal." Also, there are different interpretations of how a skate fits. It's asking for numerous "Advice from MSH made me buy skates that don't fit" threads.

That's just my take on it. For the most part just about every idea of databases and whatnot have been considered by MSH admins/mods, if they do not add a database they probably have a good reason for it.

[cougarscaptain87 13]

the only way i could see this possible is if there was some sort of chart that had exact measurments as to how the boot in question was measured, and then a very detailed description of how to measure the exact part of your foot to see if your foot was compatable with a boot, sounds like alot of hard work and time for a chart that will probally be lost in the upcoming months. and there is also such a large chance for user error that it would be nearly impossible to guarentee acuracy.

[Law Goalie 147]

Frankly, I'd rather have Chadd or jimmy or JR or another equally sensible sort write up authoritative skate-by-skate, company-by-company blurbs, which would be a hell of a lot more useful than the dubiously educated guesswork of we plebes - though it seems like a lot to ask of any of those guys, particularly when it might be detrimental to their businesses.

[sds 0]

Ok, I may be a little snotty here, so please forgive me...

Did anyone actually read my post? I said it would be nice to have KEY MEASUREMENTS taken. That means with an EXACT measuring instrument. I am trying to suggest eliminating the ambiguous words like "wide" and "narrow". I'm talking about an OPINION FREE database. No arguments, just numbers. Easton S15: 75 mm wide. Vector 6.0: 72 mm wide. etc...

I never suggested ANYONE buying skates online. Unless you are buying your current skate, you are a fool if you do.

However, I TOTALLY reject the notion that giving measurements of skates takes away business of the LHS's. Geez Louis, we analyze the hell out of every single piece of equipment here, yet having a central place to help people narrow their focus on skates becomes a detriment to the LHS?

What purpose does the pattern db serve? The flex chart? All of these help me INFINITELY more in making an online purchase than having an exact measurement chart on skates.

[Law Goalie 147]

I did say "might be detrimental." I very clearly and carefully did not say "will be." I honestly don't know what those three guys think about the consequences of indexing publishing their expertise online. I will, however, suggest that a person can generally pick a stick without an expert fitting, while requiring that expert work for a skate.

I'm also not all that sure I trust random members - not even myself - to correctly measure feet and boots with the right tools in the right manner. Hell, I botched my ATK measurement by a full inch the first time, and that's a pretty damned easy one to take. This still raises the problem of who is going to take the time to compile the information - however precise or descriptive.

[JR Boucicaut 3809]

The Pattern DB and Flex Charts are dealing with absolutes - given by the manufacturers. Since everyone uses those standards, we can put them in a chart.

However, I TOTALLY reject the notion that giving measurements of skates takes away business of the LHS's. Geez Louis, we analyze the hell out of every single piece of equipment here, yet having a central place to help people narrow their focus on skates becomes a detriment to the LHS?

Absolutely, it does. The people buying skates online think they are informed, hence, skipping the LHS because they believe they 1) they know what they need, and 2) figure they can save money. Offering this information in any way, shape or form would make it easier for them to do that.

[Chadd 916]

Ok, I may be a little snotty here, so please forgive me...

Did anyone actually read my post? I said it would be nice to have KEY MEASUREMENTS taken. That means with an EXACT measuring instrument. I am trying to suggest eliminating the ambiguous words like "wide" and "narrow". I'm talking about an OPINION FREE database. No arguments, just numbers. Easton S15: 75 mm wide. Vector 6.0: 72 mm wide. etc...

I never suggested ANYONE buying skates online. Unless you are buying your current skate, you are a fool if you do.

However, I TOTALLY reject the notion that giving measurements of skates takes away business of the LHS's. Geez Louis, we analyze the hell out of every single piece of equipment here, yet having a central place to help people narrow their focus on skates becomes a detriment to the LHS?

What purpose does the pattern db serve? The flex chart? All of these help me INFINITELY more in making an online purchase than having an exact measurement chart on skates.

I read your post and it's still not going to happen.

Measuring the outside of the skate is pointless. The padding is not the same in every skate so one may be wider on the outside and still fit more narrowly on the inside.

You also still fail to address the point about people thinking their foot is something that it really isn't. I used to laugh my ass off when people said their foot was too wide for CCMs, then walked out with Vapors.

You can get guidance, but we're not here to replace the actual experience of trying on skates to find the right fit.

[Bmplam 1]

The problem a lot of us have is the LHS in the not so hot hockey markets are small and do not stock a whole lot of skates, so more often than not, you can't try on everything you would like. I personally buy from my LHS because IMHO it is very important to support these guys and keep them around. Plus they are real good guys here. Often we can't try them on until after the skates have been ordered and shipped. I have been lucky because of an informed decision of what will fit in part based on opinions from here and in part from the advice from the LHS. I ordered skates for my daughter, and they were way off. No big deal, since the LHS just puts them on the shelf and orders another pair to try, but thats another week or two in the ill fitting old skates.

In short, a skate database is not just a tool for online deal hunters, but would help customers and the LHS get the right skates the 1st time around more often.

Just a thought, and sorry for the long post.

[Powerfibers 8]

I think realistically, we just need to have more people do some reviews in the skate section. Comment on your foot shape there.

[Chadd 916]

In short, a skate database is not just a tool for online deal hunters, but would help customers and the LHS get the right skates the 1st time around more often.

I understand where you're coming from as this area is devoid of knowledgeable sales people. The reality is that you can get a very good idea what will fit you without all of the extra work that would go into creating an accurate table of information. In fact, I'm not sure we could get accurate enough information without considerable expense. The types of tools needed for usable measurements are not inexpensive and again, we derive no income from this site.

Adding that type of expense, not to mention the time involved, all to provide something that will enable SOME people to skip the retail experience completely is something that goes against our core beliefs. Factor in the people who will argue with measurements not matching their perceptions and it's far more trouble than it's worth to us.

BTW: This was posted in the wrong forum as well.