mik3 1 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 Ellsbury will never have a year that comes close to Coco's 05, plus Coco was one of the three best center fielders in all of baseball last year. Pedroia has more power potential than Ellsbury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the1gwiz 0 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 COCO won't come to Coco's '05 either.Crisp's .268 avg., .712 OPS, 85 runs in that lineup over 145 games were better than who among the following?Granderson, Beltran, Ichiro, Byrnes, Rowand, Sizemore, Hunter, Rios, Soriano, Hart, Young, Victornio, Cabrera, Pence, even Matthews.And if we're talking defensively take off a handful of those names and add Andruw.I'm not seeing how Pedroia's power in relation to Elsbury's is a knock on Elsbury as a leadoff guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drisco487 0 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 It's not like Cocos' 2005 was THAT amazing either, Ellsbury definitely has the potential to have a year as good as that, if not better.And when you mentioned power, Pedroia only had 8 homers all of last year and Ellsbury had 3 in 33 games with the sox. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 It's not like Cocos' 2005 was THAT amazing either, Ellsbury definitely has the potential to have a year as good as that, if not better.And when you mentioned power, Pedroia only had 8 homers all of last year and Ellsbury had 3 in 33 games with the sox.Coco's 2005 wasn't that good? 80+ xbh, probably the second best left fielder in the league. Ellsbury won't touch the 16hr and might have problems with the 40+ doubles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oberon 0 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 It's the price of having one of the most memorable players in Twins' history being a sexual predator. Yeah, but he was OUR sexual predator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drisco487 0 Report post Posted January 30, 2008 It's not like Cocos' 2005 was THAT amazing either, Ellsbury definitely has the potential to have a year as good as that, if not better.And when you mentioned power, Pedroia only had 8 homers all of last year and Ellsbury had 3 in 33 games with the sox.Coco's 2005 wasn't that good? 80+ xbh, probably the second best left fielder in the league. Ellsbury won't touch the 16hr and might have problems with the 40+ doubles.Never said it wasn't that good, I said it wasn't that amazing. I'd consider good and amazing to be very different and I guess well just have to wait and see on Ellsbury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 hah wow, so Smith went back to Cashman yesterday before he pulled the trigger on Santana to the Mets.He wanted Kennedy/Cabrera/Wang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
supahdon 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 It's not like Cocos' 2005 was THAT amazing either, Ellsbury definitely has the potential to have a year as good as that, if not better.And when you mentioned power, Pedroia only had 8 homers all of last year and Ellsbury had 3 in 33 games with the sox.Coco's 2005 wasn't that good? 80+ xbh, probably the second best left fielder in the league. Ellsbury won't touch the 16hr and might have problems with the 40+ doubles.Unless I'm missing something, Coco had 62 xbh in 2005. 42 2B, 4 3B, 16 HR. At this rate, I think the Sox would be more than pleased if Ellsbury can top Crisp's career .329 OBP. Get on base, let Manny-Ortiz-Lowell drive you in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 Yeah, for some reason I remembered 80. Even then, Ellsbury is a hype monster. He'll work an AB, but that's about it. I'd say him and Melky are pretty close in terms of value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drisco487 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 Yeah, for some reason I remembered 80. Even then, Ellsbury is a hype monster. He'll work an AB, but that's about it. I'd say him and Melky are pretty close in terms of value.Wow, then I really don't know what your watching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 One good late-season and post-season run from Ellsbury? The same as we all watched? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the1gwiz 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 I think Ellsbury-Cabrera is a fair comparison. I don't expect much pop from either, and .280-.315 is about where I see both of these guys as far as avg. goes. Ellsbury's a prototype leadoff hitter, though, especially in that lineup, where a walk and his speed is a runner in scoring position for the big boys. I see Melky as a guy who'll slot somewhere in the 6 or 7 slot in a batting order and play very good D, but not as a top or meat of the order guy. I see Ellsbury as a gold glove candidate who'll flirt with 50 steals for a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 Melky's defense is as good as Ellsbury's, and Melky still takes horrible routes. If he ever fixes that he might be the best CFer in the league. He was already top three or four last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the1gwiz 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 I've gotta put Andruw, Torii, Beltran, Ichiro, Granderson (VERY underrated defensively), possibly Crisp and Rowand, and, in limited duty, Pie in front of Melky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 By defensive metrics last year it pretty much went coco, melky, ichiro last year. Ichiro was having the best CF season ever defensively till about the all-star break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D-MaN88 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 Not going to lie, I'm a Red Sox fan for life, and I think Ellsbury is going to turn out to be a great player for years to come and should have a very solid career no doubt. But I also have to say though, Melky has a cannon for an arm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drisco487 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 I'd say theres are about 7 or 8 center fielders that are better than Melky defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2008 I'd say theres are about 7 or 8 center fielders that are better than Melky defensively.All I can say to that is don't mistake diving catches for good play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Harris 31 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 I'm going off memory but, including minors, Ellsbury had hits in something like 37 out of 39 games this season. That's going beyond beginner's luck. He also has averaged .314 in the minors. That's right about where I'd expect him to hit in the majors. .315 with 40+ SB's and 14-18 HR's. However, he still makes bad breaks defensively, although I expect him to be a perennial Gold Glove contender eventually.There aren't too many Sox fans that wanted to give up Ellsbury in the Santana deal. He's going to be special. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 He hit 10hr and 44 doubles in 1000+ab in the minors. He'll walk and steal but he has zero pop.He's Brett Gardner + hype. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Harris 31 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 He's tall enough to grow into more power, although he'll lose some speed. The hype isn't just coming from the Red Sox camp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 I'll just say that not giving up on Ellsbury or Lester is better than giving them up and shelling out the money the Mets are to Santana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 He's tall enough to grow into more power, although he'll lose some speed. The hype isn't just coming from the Red Sox camp.Lets be serious here, he's an inch shorter than Johnny Damon. It's not like we're talking about Corey Hart here. He's going to be a better Juan Pierre, which isn't a top prospect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Harris 31 Report post Posted February 2, 2008 If he's better than Juan Pierre (.301 average and 382 steals over seven seasons), the Sox will be ecstatic.I've seen predictions ranging from .290 to .320 next year for Ellsbury, with between 15 to 45 steals. If he performs toward the top end, that's a no-brainer ROY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik3 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2008 Schilling and Kelvim Escobar having shoulder problems.Schillings' is supposedly so bad that the Red Sox might try to void his deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
