Graf Foot Pain

[x11x 0]

I have had issues with foot pain in my Grafs over the past year and I was wondering if the pitch might be the issue. First off, I love the way the Cobras feel when put me on the balls of my feet, but I think this might be causing my foot pain. This issue has remained the same over 2 pairs of skates, here goes:

1st, Graf Ultra G35 in a W: These skates felt perfect out of the box and walking around on them. There were absolutely no pressure points, but they still fit snugly. However, when I skated on them I got unbearable foot cramps on the outside sides of my feet. I first thought this was just the break in period, but it didn't go away. I thought that maybe they were too wide and therefore not supporting my feet well enough. As a result of this thinking that I needed a narrower fit, I went back to my LHS and was recommended a G3 in a R width.

2nd, Graf Ultra G3 in a R: These skates slightly squeezed the sides of my feet, especially in the forefoot and toes, but I was told that this would bake out and give me the snug fit that was supposedly lacking the the G35s. After getting a wider toe cap put on, the only issue in these skates was the same, unbearable foot cramps on the outside of my feet. Now I thought maybe they were too narrow. So...

What I am now wondering is if maybe it was the forward pitch the whole time, much like the pain women get from wearing high heels? Do you think this could be the issue and if so do you think I should go to a different brand (RBK?) or just put on some Lightspeeds to reduce the forward pitch?

Thanks!

[Too Old 1]

IMO the forward pitch is not as big of a deal as many proclaim it to be. It seems to be fairly minimal that it changes the mechanics of your skating position at least to me. I have G3 Supra's by the way.

[x11x 0]

I realize that the effect on skating is minimal (I actually like it), but I was wondering if the slightly more forward angled pitch could be putting more stress on my foot.

[epstud74 24]

Have you tried a more supportive footbed? Also, where are you cranking up your laces?

[x11x 0]

I've worn Superfeet with both pairs and I don't think lacing is the issue as I've tried all different ways.

[stuie7 6]

do you get the pain when you're on the ice or off?

I dont notice it when im on the ice but when I take my G70's off I get alot of pain down the outside edges of my feet.

Its like they re-expand or something..

[x11x 0]

The feeling goes like this:

1st, lace up skates/walk around = feels good

2nd, step onto ice and skate = pain starts and is unbearable after about 15 minutes

3rd, get off ice/ walk back to locker room = hurts same/worse as on ice

4th, take skates off = foot cramp slightly lessens and feet are red on outside sides

[legiahockey 3]

i dont think its the right boot for you.i think pitch has very little to do with it.

[DVX 0]

The feeling goes like this:

1st, lace up skates/walk around = feels good

2nd, step onto ice and skate = pain starts and is unbearable after about 15 minutes

3rd, get off ice/ walk back to locker room = hurts same/worse as on ice

4th, take skates off = foot cramp slightly lessens and feet are red on outside sides

probably not wide enough. had that issue with my Vapor XXX's as well as graf 501's. with the XXX's it felt alright on the ice as long as I was skating, as soon as I stopped all hell broke lose. It got so bad at one point i couldnt walk for 5-10 minutes after taking them off, im talking about excruciating pain as if someone had put my feet in a vice and cranked away at it.

[x11x 0]

legiahockey: The only reason I think it is the pitch is because it has happened in two very different boots and the pitch is the only constant I know of.

DVX: What you describe sounds like what is happening with me. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the same thing happened with a much wider skate as well.

[Jordan 13]

Well...there can be one other constant...neither boot fits. Seems from your description, that the G35W's were too narrow..and that your G3R's were way too narrow!

Sounds to me like you need a wider boot.

[x11x 0]

I HIGHLY doubt that the G35W's were too narrow as my feet were not pressured at all and the laces could be tightened a lot without squeezing the sides of my feet. If they were though, what skates would be wider (other than wider Grafs)?

[DVX 0]

i went from the vapor xxx's in regular width to s15's in a wider width and no such problems.

Also try to keep the laces looser in problem spots. The pitch shouldnt be the cause because its only moving your foot forward, this has more to do with constriction of the foot.

Honestly give eastons a try, theyve always had the best fit for me, especially after 703's, 501's and XXX's destroyed my feet. No qualms with the fit on 1300's(when they first came out) and s15's. Although the s15's in wide are really really wide and there seems to be a consistency problem with the width as my first pair were beautiful but i feel my second pair are off.

Funny thing about the XXX's though. They were fine when i bought them. skated on them for a year then took a bit of time off and then when i got back into it thats when it got bad.

Another problem could be a narrow footbed but a wide boot, i run into this problem with soccer shoes.

[sickwilly 37]

You could try tying them while standing up/bending over. Put your weight (as much as you can) on the skate you are tying as you lace the lower 2/3 of the skate. It has helped me immensely. My foot pain is nearly gone, and that's all I changed.

[Jordan 13]

Don't know what would fit your feet...haven't seen them.

If you say that the G35W (a boot with a narrow heel and rel. wide forefoot) were not too wide..it could be that they don't widen at the same spot as your feet. In other words, although they felt wide enough up front, something was causing you pain...very unlikely that it was the pitch...

You could try having them profiled to a neutral pitch and see if the pain goes away, but I don't think that is the problem; however, it might be worth a try.

[ju87 0]

do you have flat feet ?

[rmnyi 0]

The feeling goes like this:

1st, lace up skates/walk around = feels good

2nd, step onto ice and skate = pain starts and is unbearable after about 15 minutes

3rd, get off ice/ walk back to locker room = hurts same/worse as on ice

4th, take skates off = foot cramp slightly lessens and feet are red on outside sides

I have to agree with Jordan, it sounds like width is part of the problem. How is the depth of your foot? High instep? And as the previous poster asked, do you have flat feet?

[Stacey 0]

First off, you went from a wider boot to the narrowest boot on the market. A *35 takes the heel of a **3 and the forefoot of a **5 series skate. Did you get to try on a R width? Why did you jump to a W? You could have just very well compensated for the extra volume in the W by tying your skates tighter than normal to ensure you foot was snug - a heat fit expands the boot.

2. Why did you decide to go into a **3 series boot? Going from a G35 W to a G3 R is dramatic jump and one that does not make any sense at all. Not only are you not cramming you foot in a narrow boot but you're most likely spilling out of the instep - a depth issue that could account for the pain you're feeling.

Have you had a chance to try out a **5 series boot in an R width? The thing with Graf is, there is most usually a happy medium between the type of lasts and widths they offer - there really was no need to jump so drastically as you did.

[x11x 0]

First off, I have a large arch and do not have flat feet. My feet do tend to get wider before the boot does (this has been an issue in every skate I've put on except Grafs, ironically).

I was told that my problem with the G35W's was that they were too wide, and that I should try a significantly narrower boot (the G3R) in the hope of baking it to my foot shape and giving my foot better support. I think this advice may have been flawed, but I realized this after I purchased the skates.

It's interesting to me though that a skate supposedly too wide and one too narrow both cause the same type of pain. This led me to my pitch hypothesis.

Also, the reason I did not get the G5 is that my forefoot fails the pencil test miserably on those but passed easily on the G3s and G35s.

[vek 0]

I had a terrible time with the Graf pitch, and find it possible that it contributed to my forefoot pain as well. Since all my weight was on my forefoot (something I was unused to, coming from 30 years of bauer/custom + pitch, it caused cramping, etc.

After a holder/steel swap (which had to be done anyway, since the Grafs were terribly misaligned from the factory), I'm more comfortable.

[epstud74 24]

YOu may need a more supportive footbed and a skate with more volume. You're obviously not getting enough support from either the footbed or the skate.

[Stacey 0]

Agreed, the fact you have a large arch means you are not being supported. When you put your feet in your skates, your arch collapses slightly thus widening your foot in the boot causing the pressure points. You first need to stabilize your feet then start finding suitable boots that will fit well. You might need to find a podiatrist to get orthotics made to support your high arch.

[x11x 0]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I just have one more question: If I were to change the holder from a Cobra to Tuuk that would significantly change the pitch, correct?

[epstud74 24]

Sure, but it wont take care of your problem. That being, your arch and foot are not properly supported. No one with high arches should be in a Graf G3 or 703 type skate. Did you buy these at a LHS?

[x11x 0]

Yes, bought at a LHS. I think I'll get some better fitting Grafs on Tuuks.