Great Canadian Hockey Call to Arms

[Jim Bob 0]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2004/09/29/648497.html

It will be interesting to see how this goes.

And he's another fan that wants a hard cap. I thought a hard cap was supposed to be anti-fan?

[Chadd 916]

And he's another fan that wants a hard cap. I thought a hard cap was supposed to be anti-fan?

A hard cap is anti fan, for the reasons previously discussed. Not everyone understands all of the deeper details, they just want hockey. I don't blame him for wanting hockey, I do too.

[Jim Bob 0]

And he's another fan that wants a hard cap. I thought a hard cap was supposed to be anti-fan?

A hard cap is anti fan, for the reasons previously discussed. Not everyone understands all of the deeper details, they just want hockey. I don't blame him for wanting hockey, I do too.

He doesn't just want hockey. He wants hockey to return to and thrive in Winnipeg.

And he feels that for that to happen, a hard cap has to be in place apparently.

And I think that feeling is shared by fans in a lot of cities that have teams that are competing in leagues that have salary caps and struggling in leagues that don't.

Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Florida, Carolina, Nashville, and Minnesota are all cities that have NFL teams and their fans know what a hard cap can do. And I have a feeling that a lot of fans in those cities would like it if the NHL had a similiar system.

[Jim Bob 0]

A hard cap still does not guarentee wins or success for those teams.

True, but it gives fans more hope.

Who has more hope, Penguins fans, Pirates fans, or Steelers fans?

And why do they hav more hope?

Personally, I think the fact that the economic system in the NFL levels the playing field between large and small markets is a major reason why Steelers fans have a lot more hope for their team than Pens or Bucs fans do.

And if you look at the polls that The Hockey News has done, most of their readers believe that the NHL needs a salary cap more than a luxury tax system.

Too many fans seem to want a salary cap for me to believe that it is "anti-fan".

The fans that have the biggest issue with a cap are ones in the big revenue markets who will lose a competitive advantage should the economic lanscape in the NHL change.

But that is a small subsection of hockey fans.

[Chadd 916]

I'd argue that most fans don't consider all of the details, they just want something. Player turnover makes it hard for fans to enjoy long runs with th esame players on their team. It gives hope to fans with a bad team that they may be able to radically improve in one year. It also means that your team won't be good for more than 3-4 years at a time. A hard cap ensures that there will be no more dynasties, like Montreal had.

As for the Pittsburgh reference, the Pens and Pirates never sold out games when they were good. It's a football town, always was, always will be.

[Jim Bob 0]

I'd argue that most fans don't consider all of the details, they just want something. Player turnover makes it hard for fans to enjoy long runs with th esame players on their team. It gives hope to fans with a bad team that they may be able to radically improve in one year. It also means that your team won't be good for more than 3-4 years at a time. A hard cap ensures that there will be no more dynasties, like Montreal had.

As for the Pittsburgh reference, the Pens and Pirates never sold out games when they were good. It's a football town, always was, always will be.

Are you kidding me?

When the Pens were winning their cups it was really hard to get a ticket.

Heck, it was a hard ticket when Mario came out of retirement and they lowered his number from the rafters.

And the Pirates had solid fan support in the 70s, 80s, and into the early 90s when they had some solid teams as well.

And as far as fans taking everything into consideration, I think they do. And I believe that most fans believe the positives of a cap system outweigh the negatives, especially since the advent of wide spread UFA means that large scale roster turnover is here to stay.

Look around the NHL. How many players over the age of 30 are with the team that drafted them?

That list isn't that long. So I don't see how a salary cap would change things that much.

And as far as dynasties go, look at the NBA. The Lakers were a dynasty until Kobe decided to blow things up so he could be "The Man".

The Bulls had a dynasty during the Jordan years.

Heck, the NFL has a one team that's won 2 of the last 3 Super Bowls and is a favorite to win this year.

And then you have MLB which has the ultimate dynasty. And I doubt there are a lot of fans that are really happy with the way the system is set up overall.

[Chadd 916]

My in-laws live in Pittsburgh, I've been there often enough to know the market. Only the first couple of games were sold out in Marios comeback. I bought tickets for his fourth game back less than 24 hours before game time.

Pirates - support has been slipping since the Steelers won their superbowls. Even in 92 they couldn't sell out playoff games.

Turnover now is usually in the 3rd and fourth line players, a hard cap will turn over more of the star players. With NFL style they get released, with NBA style, they get packaged off with many other players.

I agree that the majority of players don't stick with a team for 10+ years. Narrow your focus to star players and the % goes up drastically.

Look what happened to the Lakers, outside of the big 2 the other guys made very little. They were shedding players every year and replacing them with less capable players. They won a couple of titles but encountered a number of problems that they haven't been able to circumvent.

The Bulls drafted most of those players and the NBA allows teams to exceed the cap to resign their own players.

The Patriots have an excellent system and have made wise personnel decisions. A Dynasty should be measured over more than 3 years. The fact you're citing 3 years as a dynasty plays into my point.

MLB has the most borked financial system in sports. There are too many loopholes and it has no "teeth" for those who exceed the limits.

Most of the fans I've heard compare the player salary to theirs. It takes the reality of the situation way out of context and makes most of the points they try to make irrelevant.

[Jim Bob 0]

I agree that the majority of players don't stick with a team for 10+ years. Narrow your focus to star players and the % goes up drastically.

Really?

Gretzky, Messier, Roy, Hasek, Bourque, Hull, Shanahan, Fedorov, Kovalev, Jagr, Khabibulin, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovanovski, Roenick, Tkachuk, Lindros, Stevens and a ton of other "star players" have been moved during their careers.

You even have stars like Iginla and Forsberg that were traded away by the team that drafted them in the 1st round.

The number of true star guys that stay with one team is a very short list. You've got Yzerman, Sakic, Brodeur, and how many others?

Heck, even back in the day Bobby Orr didn't even play his entire career with one team.

I highly doubt that a hard cap would change things anywhere near as much as things changed once UFA became widespread.

And I trust that fans that have seen a cap in action in the NFL, NBA, CFL, and other leagues know what they are saying when they vote in polls saying that the NHL should have a salary cap.

[LegoDoom 0]

I haven't read any details of a proposed cap, but I think they need to do it like the NBA and have more lenient cap hits when trading players. The NFL makes it very difficult to trade players (especially ones with bigger contracts). Until recently you never saw player for player trades in the NFL because of the cap hit involved. And even recently it's mainly been players still on rookie contracts or at the end of contracts where the cap hit is either small or just for one year.

Player turnaround is so great in the NHL anyway, I doubt it will affect a teams fan base.

Yes, the cap was a problem in the NFL in the '80s. I think it's gotten much better recently as teams are now managing it better. I don't like the way MLB uses the luxury tax system, so it'd have to be a vast improvement on that in order to convince me it's best for the league.

[Chadd 916]

Many of them were over 30 and moved when they were free agents or before they could become free agents.

Iggy and Forsberg were traded before anyone knew who they were, but they have remained in one place once they hit the NHL.

Bobby Orr should have retired from Boston but he wouldn't admit his knees were shot and wanted to give it one more try.

In any case the NHLPA would never allow contracts that can be voided at any time so you're going to have teams that are screwed for years with a bad contract.