One95 to Graf pitch

[jsykes 35]

So, if anyone read my skate issues in the TO thread, I finally found something that is working for me. I found a shop that was willing to do some fitting on a new skate for me (not make me commit first before punching/stretching) and I found a wide One95 is working pretty damn well, better than the two sets of full custom Vapors Bauer made me. So I got myself a pair of $285 One95s. :D

Anyway, I'm coming from a Graf skate and when I got on the Supremes for the first time today I felt like I was ready to fall over backwards. The pitch of the skate and blade was way further back than what I'm used to with the Grafs and I like the feel of the Graf pitch.

So I know that JR and some here use heel lifts to get some forward pitch in their skates, but also know that steel can be profiled to be more forward pitch.

What is the best way to do this? Does profiling the steel work well for getting a more forward pitch, this is easier for me then having the blade re-mounted with a lift. Or is the only way to do it properly with the lift?

The fit of the skate is great and I'm excited to actually finally have found something that works for me. Now to get the right on ice feel for them and I'll be ready to go pro.

[tamtamg 12]

sorry to hear your customs didn't work out. heel lifts are a more permanent solution to getting more forward pitch. yes you can have them profiled, but one bad sharpening can really through them off.

[jsykes 35]

Yeah, the custom thing kinda sucked. First pair came through a half size too small, next ones came through with them not being quite wide enough and giving me a ton of lace bite. Also one of the blades seemed to be mounted crooked which caused me to roll my right ankle when stepping down. I figured, that if I had to stretch and punch a skate, might as well start with something close off the shelf and not pay for a full custom. The One95s were closer out of the box than the customs were and I saved a lot of money in the end. :D

Yeah, I realize a profile can go bad, however, that can happen regardless of what the profile is if you get a bad sharpen. Anyone have any experience with either way of doing things? Again, I know JR does the lift thing and just wonder how close it will get me back to the feel. I put them side by side and it looks like the holders are about the same height at toe and heel and it all comes from the shape of the boot.

[Composite Freak 0]

jsykes,

Why not give it a few sessions first before doing the lift?

I came from Graf's to one95's and was very concerned about the different pitch as well. The first time on the ice, not only was the different pitch noticable, but everything was noticable. It felt like going from a tricycle to a unicycle.

After perhaps the second or third time on the ice, it now feels very natural. I can't even remember what Graf's felt like and I feel very comfortable on the ice.

I am an instructor at hockey camps and coach rep hockey, plus I play some higher levels of men's leagues several times per week. So I am always pushing the limits and even with that, the one95's feel very natural.

You may want to just give it several sessions on ice and see if perhaps it works for you. Then you can always go with the lifts if you aren't comfortable.

[SolarWind 23]

jsykes,

Why not give it a few sessions first before doing the lift?

I came from Graf's to one95's and was very concerned about the different pitch as well. The first time on the ice, not only was the different pitch noticable, but everything was noticable. It felt like going from a tricycle to a unicycle.

After perhaps the second or third time on the ice, it now feels very natural. I can't even remember what Graf's felt like and I feel very comfortable on the ice.

I am an instructor at hockey camps and coach rep hockey, plus I play some higher levels of men's leagues several times per week. So I am always pushing the limits and even with that, the one95's feel very natural.

You may want to just give it several sessions on ice and see if perhaps it works for you. Then you can always go with the lifts if you aren't comfortable.

very well said! This whole pitch thing was discussed numerous times & I still feel it's all just personal preference

there're tons of NHLes that are pretty damn good skaters (like Kovalev for instance) still skating on Custom+. This holder has like what a "-2" severe negative pitch, comparing even with TUUKs, but still

I toyed a lot with +1 or +.5 positive pitch & never liked it - went back to neutral, but am still comfortable with -1 as well.

[jsykes 35]

Thanks CF, I may do that. I'm definitely going to look to a minor profile change first before going to a lift and see what that does for me as its easy enough to do. I think maybe just a minor change in that, plus some ice time will make things work for me.

That, plus the fact that these skates finally fit me properly in terms of heel locked in and length, I think I'm just getting used to the skates also doing everything my feet input to them. No more slop in the skate to take up any bad habits.

I'm not the best skater out there, but it was weird today. Things that were natural and done without thinking all of a sudden required effort and attention again.

One thing I liked with the Grafs was the forward pitch sort of forced me into a more knees bent, leaned over position which I think helped my skating. With the Bauers I'll need to force myself and remember technique and do it myself.

Thanks for the input.

[Composite Freak 0]

Thanks CF, I may do that.

One thing I liked with the Grafs was the forward pitch sort of forced me into a more knees bent, leaned over position which I think helped my skating. With the Bauers I'll need to force myself and remember technique and do it myself.

Thanks for the input.

No problem. You can at least give it a try for several skates and see what you think.

I also thought I would have to remember technique and force myself to like to lean forward. However, after the second time on the ice, I don't feel I am forcing myself to do anything nor am I consciously remembering about bending my knees, etc.

I believe I am a much better balanced skater in these skates which have as much do to with the overall quality of the skates more so than just the pitch.

For me, the better ability of the one95's to get on it's edges and transition between backwards, forwards and edges far, far outweighs any possible benefit of always leaning forward in my opinion.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

very well said! This whole pitch thing was discussed numerous times & I still feel it's all just personal preference

there're tons of NHLes that are pretty damn good skaters (like Kovalev for instance) still skating on Custom+. This holder has like what a "-2" severe negative pitch, comparing even with TUUKs, but still

I toyed a lot with +1 or +.5 positive pitch & never liked it - went back to neutral, but am still comfortable with -1 as well.

But do you know if Kovalev is getting his steel radiused and just likes the spring effect that C+ give a skater?

[nieminen24 0]

sorry to hear your customs didn't work out. heel lifts are a more permanent solution to getting more forward pitch. yes you can have them profiled, but one bad sharpening can really through them off.

Heel lifts won't necessarily be more permanent than profiling. The same bad sharpening that ruins a radius and pitch of a profiled skate will ruin the stock radius and any benefits of heel lifts that have been installed.

[SolarWind 23]

But do you know if Kovalev is getting his steel radiused and just likes the spring effect that C+ give a skater?

I expected this comment :)

of course I don't know that but what would be the odds of that?

I wish I had a stronger point to counter this argument, but I think it was you who said that "pros are creaturs of habit" so what's the likelihood that Kovy even though of profiling his steel or otherwise mocking up with his skates growing in 70s-80s back in the USSR?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

He didn't. His EQM in the NHL did though.

[SolarWind 23]

He didn't. His EQM in the NHL did though.

wouldn't it go against the habbit then?

anyhow - it's always great to get some inside - what's his profile?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

I wouldn't know, I don't know him.

An EQM is going to try to give his players the best advantage possible. So he may take a young player and be like "Try this."

[jsykes 35]

JR, do you have any advice as I know you use the lifts in your Supremes? Or a recommendation on profiling.

Due to a problem with my right skate after the first use yesterday, its now on its way back to Bauer as a seam split on it. So I was in the Grafs today and it immediately was back to the feel I was used to for sure. I felt that when I got the Grafs, the position actually improved my skating a bit (its just unfortunate they dont fit me as well) so it would be nice to get some of that feel back with the One95s.

The boot of the Graf is noticeably more forward than the Bauer, so I'm thinking that with a little bit of a forward profile on the steel, I'll get a nice compromise between the two, giving me the benefits of the Bauer boot, along with the fit that works for me, and a bit of feel I have with the Graf. We'll see once I get the skate back from Bauer.

[chiefs17 2]

jsykes, I was in the same situation a few months ago. Switched from G3 Ultra's to One75's because I liked how the boot fit on the Bauers. I tried profiling... twice, and it still was not enough forward pitch. I had 1/8" heel lifts installed and had the most improvement with those. So now I am skating on heel lifts, plus an aggressive toe down profile (7-10 combo radius) and I still like my Grafs pitch better. I don't believe the difference between the Grafs and Bauers is a small one, it is a huge difference. I also don't think you can emulate the pitch of the Grafs by just doing a profile, unless you remove a lot of steel.

I would go right to an 1/8" heel lift before profiling, then you can skate a few times and see how it feels. If you need more pitch then either do a profile, or throw another set of lifts in.

JR, do you have any advice as I know you use the lifts in your Supremes? Or a recommendation on profiling.

Due to a problem with my right skate after the first use yesterday, its now on its way back to Bauer as a seam split on it. So I was in the Grafs today and it immediately was back to the feel I was used to for sure. I felt that when I got the Grafs, the position actually improved my skating a bit (its just unfortunate they dont fit me as well) so it would be nice to get some of that feel back with the One95s.

The boot of the Graf is noticeably more forward than the Bauer, so I'm thinking that with a little bit of a forward profile on the steel, I'll get a nice compromise between the two, giving me the benefits of the Bauer boot, along with the fit that works for me, and a bit of feel I have with the Graf. We'll see once I get the skate back from Bauer.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

1/8" would be past that.

He'd want 1/16" to get him to a stock Graf pitch.

[jsykes 35]

Thanks Chiefs and JR appreciate the input.

I was looking at the two skates and it seems that there is a noticeably more forward lean in the boot as well, which adds to it as it makes you bend your knees more and puts your weight a little more over the ball of your foot.

I'll give a profile a try first and see where I stand. I got the Grafs on a screaming deal while I was waiting for the custom Vapors to arrive so I've only been on them a couple months. I came from an old school boot with TUUKs on it, so I'm thinking a few skates on the Supremes and it will come back to me. If not, I'll try the lifts and see where I stand at that point.

Thanks for the help.