Getting One100's to a Vapor 60 Pitch?

[jbatafuco 6]

So I switched from a vapor 60 to one 100's because the 100's fit my heel a little better. I changed the steel from the ls 2.1 to regular ls2 steel in my 100's but I feel like they put me on my heels a lot more than my vapors did and my acceleration and crossovers aren't as quick now. I feel like I've lost a step and one of my coaches actually said the same thing.

So, I'm trying to get the skates to have the same feel of the forward, on the toes, lean and same pitch. Are there any experienced skate guys on here that have any advice? I'm putting on heel lifts in the next day or so, but if anyone has some exact numbers for a combo of heel lifts and blade profiling to save me the trial and error process I would appreciate it.

[SolarWind 23]

So I switched from a vapor 60 to one 100's because the 100's fit my heel a little better. I changed the steel from the ls 2.1 to regular ls2 steel in my 100's but I feel like they put me on my heels a lot more than my vapors did and my acceleration and crossovers aren't as quick now. I feel like I've lost a step and one of my coaches actually said the same thing.

So, I'm trying to get the skates to have the same feel of the forward, on the toes, lean and same pitch. Are there any experienced skate guys on here that have any advice? I'm putting on heel lifts in the next day or so, but if anyone has some exact numbers for a combo of heel lifts and blade profiling to save me the trial and error process I would appreciate it.

just thinking outloud: both skates use the exact same holder, both boots have composite outsole with similar thickness & you already put the same steel so the pitch/profile should be the same.

'on the heels' feeling could be attributed to a better heel lock you get in One100?

[skyscrape 5]

Or the one100's are that stiff. I weigh 290 and right now my one95's finally feel right!

[jbatafuco 6]

just thinking outloud: both skates use the exact same holder, both boots have composite outsole with similar thickness & you already put the same steel so the pitch/profile should be the same.

'on the heels' feeling could be attributed to a better heel lock you get in One100?

Maybe I'm just crazy, but comparing the two boots side to side, it looks like the outsole of the 100's has a flatter profile compared to the 60's, which seem to be more offset, with a lower front of the outsole. Anyone with product knowledge of both with any help?

Or could it be a higher ankle on the supremes that wouldn't allow me to be feel on my toes as much?

[Hockeyman11385 1]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but comparing the two boots side to side, it looks like the outsole of the 100's has a flatter profile compared to the 60's, which seem to be more offset, with a lower front of the outsole. Anyone with product knowledge of both with any help?

Or could it be a higher ankle on the supremes that wouldn't allow me to be feel on my toes as much?

If you look at the angle of the tendon guard you can see that the x:60 is angled more aggressively forward compared to the one100's. The angle of the boot is farther forward so it doesn't matter if they have the same outsole and holder the vapors will feel pitched further forward.

[jbatafuco 6]

Correcto mundo, more heel lock creates bigger pitch problems, look at carbon fiber speed skates the heel lock is so tight they need a clap spring mechanism so they can actually lift the heel during push off. It's also hard to determine how aggressive the back wall angle on the X60, because it will depend on the inner padding, so from outside X60 might look very aggressive, but if the heel padding is very thick then this would put you in a more upright pitch. X60 has a PETE anatomical heel ankle devise, which is a plastic insert that will not mold under 200F, so during baking any foam type skate like U+, One100, EQ5.... will mold the heel better which causes you to work harder at each stride.<br style="">

X60 has a stiffer tendon guard so on your crossovers you push off against it and it gives you more energy transfer. In some cases the tendon guard is to stiff, it all depends on personal push of strength.<br style="">

Your biggest problem is X60 has better forward flex, so most of your problems are not pitch related, but I would guess flex related. If you add heel lift even 1/16" or 1/8" it will still give you different feel. These are two totally different skate models, so you will not be able to match one to the other precisely. I would try a different approach, go back to your X60 and try on a custom+ holder, it will put you on your heel a little, and the boot should have enough flex to compensate for it. Your first few steps might suffer, but everything else will improve including agility.

Cheers

Wow, great information, especially about the forward flex. Never thought about that but it makes a lot of sense.

Problem is my vapor 60's are completely done. The toe box came off of the outsole, among other things. I was going to go with another pair of 60's, as they didn't fit badly and I never had any pain without baking them, but the 100's locked my foot in a little better in a couple of places. So basically, I'm stuck with these, which is fine cause they fit well and my skating isn't significantly worse, just feel a step slower accelerating and especially on crossovers beating guys wide.

I've been told that 1/16" lifts and a 9 ft radius will approximate the set up best. Do you have any other tips to add?

[Andoy 5]

don't the 100s come with 2.1 power steel? if so that might also be why you're not comfortable.

One of the first things i did a few years back when i went from vapor xx's to one90s was add shims(i forgot how thick) and get a 9ft radius done. that made it close to the feeling of my xx's.

[skyscrape 5]

don't the 100s come with 2.1 power steel? if so that might also be why you're not comfortable.

One of the first things i did a few years back when i went from vapor xx's to one90s was add shims(i forgot how thick) and get a 9ft radius done. that made it close to the feeling of my xx's.

He changed them out already.

Try Skipping the top eyelet and if you already do try skipping the top two. They fit and feel completely different but you might be able to find a good common ground. The other thing is get in touch with noicingsports.com and fill out the form and tell them you want a much more aggressive pitch and they will do it exactly how you want it.

[SolarWind 23]

Your biggest problem is X60 has better forward flex

curious - what makes you say that? care to elaborate?

I didn't have a chance to skate in neither of the two skates mentioned, but spent a few months in XXXX & 2 years in One95 and can draw fairly close comparison. From my personal experience I'd NOT venture to say that top vapors have more (or allow more however you look at it) forward flex then top supremes. I'd actually argue otherwise, so I'd live to hear your rationale...

Thanks!

[jbatafuco 6]

curious - what makes you say that? care to elaborate?

I didn't have a chance to skate in neither of the two skates mentioned, but spent a few months in XXXX & 2 years in One95 and can draw fairly close comparison. From my personal experience I'd NOT venture to say that top vapors have more (or allow more however you look at it) forward flex then top supremes. I'd actually argue otherwise, so I'd live to hear your rationale...

Thanks!

Seems to make sense to me that the 60 has more forward flex. For one, the boot is not nearly as stiff compared to my 100's, so it would seem that the 60 can flex more.

[ridiska99 1]

Correcto mundo, more heel lock creates bigger pitch problems, look at carbon fiber speed skates the heel lock is so tight they need a clap spring mechanism so they can actually lift the heel during push off. It's also hard to determine how aggressive the back wall angle on the X60, because it will depend on the inner padding, so from outside X60 might look very aggressive, but if the heel padding is very thick then this would put you in a more upright pitch. X60 has a PETE anatomical heel ankle devise, which is a plastic insert that will not mold under 200F, so during baking any foam type skate like U+, One100, EQ5.... will mold the heel better which causes you to work harder at each stride.<br style="">

X60 has a stiffer tendon guard so on your crossovers you push off against it and it gives you more energy transfer. In some cases the tendon guard is to stiff, it all depends on personal push of strength.<br style="">

Your biggest problem is X60 has better forward flex, so most of your problems are not pitch related, but I would guess flex related. If you add heel lift even 1/16" or 1/8" it will still give you different feel. These are two totally different skate models, so you will not be able to match one to the other precisely. I would try a different approach, go back to your X60 and try on a custom+ holder, it will put you on your heel a little, and the boot should have enough flex to compensate for it. Your first few steps might suffer, but everything else will improve including agility.

Cheers

This is interesting discussion and your input is invaluable, I have a question does the totalone have the same problem in ur above comparison with x60 ? I thought that either I'm crazy or i feel more like I skate on my heels ? Guess I'm not alone... Will profiling help in any way ?

I feel that I need to correct my previous post so I don't mislead anyone. I think that the effect of a heel lift will depend on the skate seize as well. If logic is on my side the shorter the skate size the more drastic the 1/8" heel lift will feel and you will feel very aggressive forward pitch. But with a skate size 12 it might not be as noticeable. We need someone who knows geometry to give us a precise answer. I’m size 6.5/7 skate size so for me lifts give drastic results.

Cheers

How about size 8 ? Will that be noticible or itl be a waste of my time ?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

It is not a problem per se, with the additional heel lock that is why you are getting that feeling.

Rubo is right. A profile or heel lift (prefer heel lift) will remedy the situation.