Will longer holder fit on boot?

[yesido 0]

Does anybody know offhand if a 255 holder will fit on a size 4.5 U+CL? They came with 247. It looks unlikely based on a simple look at the bottom of the boot, but I can't tell for sure. Thanks.

[cooperalls 4]

It's tough to say for sure without the skate and holder in hand. Best bet is to take it to a LHS with reputable staff and get their opinion. If it were me I'd pop off one of the existing 247mm holders, then try to line up the 255 on the bottom of the boot. It's actually ok if the holder stick out past the outsole on either the toe or heel (or both, as long as the midpoint is properly mounted for center of balance) just a little bit, they can use a dremel tool to shave it back flush with the toe/heel of the outsole. I installed 272mm holders on my size 7.5 Vapor XXXX's (stock is 263mm) without even having to trim the holder back. I was lucky enough to have the back two heel rivet holes and the two rivet holes furthest back in the forefoot line up, so I didn't have to re-drill or widen very many of the existing rivet locations. It's not uncommon for skaters to bump up one holder size if they prefer longer steel. Again, take it to someone you trust, worst case they remove the existing holder, try to line it up, if it absolutely won't fit they can re-rivet the old holder. I'd be surprised if there wasn't enough room to fit it on...a half size up and it would've come with a 255 to begin with.

[danno25nh 3]

Why would you want to do this? Not being sarcastic I really wonder why.

If you just need more blade:ice contact simply change the radius of the blade.

From a purely mechanical stand point if you have a 9' radius it doesn't matter how long the blade is, you'll still have the same amount of blade on the ice at any given time.

If you went to a really flat blade like a speed skate then sure this makes a difference; but in this case why go through the trouble and add unneeded weight?

[yesido 0]

Fair point. Not sure that I do want to do it, just thinking about it. I got a new pair of skates and went down a full size (my feet are different sizes and prior skates were fit to the bigger foot rather than the smaller one). The old skates are 255. Profile is the same (9 foot) on both pairs. So teh feel on the ice should be the same, but for some reason it isn't and I'm trying to determine if it has anything to do with having a little less steel before the toe and heel of the blade (especially the heel).

[cooperalls 4]

True, if the profile (9',10' etc) is the same on both runners, the amount of steel in contact with the ice at any given time would be the same on both a 247 and 255. However, the profile only occurs between center of heel and center of forefoot, it's not a constant arc that runs the entire length of the blade. The total length of the blade will still affect how the skate feels underneath you. I was used to 272, so switching to 263 made me feel like I ran out of steel at the end of my stride. My first solution was to use LS2.1 steel, which should've made up most of the difference in length, but it still never felt quite right. When the 2.1 was at the end of it's life I decided to switch the holders, and have felt much more comfortable.

For me, any increased weight from bumping up one size in holder/steel wasn't noticeable. I also switched to step steel, which has more material than LS2.1 and I didn't notice any decrease in speed or increase in fatigue.

Length is not a concern you can have it stick out on both ends, the key is width of the heel of the boot. so when you put the beholder up again the outsole on the heel if it fits it doesn't mean it will mount well, because the inner sole is narrower so you might drill thru the outsole and it looks ok, but will come out thru the side wall of the boot. If you're skate is an EE you will have more room to play with around the heel area.

Cheers

Good point on the width Rubo. I'm in a EE so I was lucky and didn't have any issues with the rivets hitting the sidewall of the boot.

[danno25nh 3]

True, if the profile (9',10' etc) is the same on both runners, the amount of steel in contact with the ice at any given time would be the same on both a 247 and 255. However, the profile only occurs between center of heel and center of forefoot, it's not a constant arc that runs the entire length of the blade. The total length of the blade will still affect how the skate feels underneath you. I was used to 272, so switching to 263 made me feel like I ran out of steel at the end of my stride. My first solution was to use LS2.1 steel, which should've made up most of the difference in length, but it still never felt quite right. When the 2.1 was at the end of it's life I decided to switch the holders, and have felt much more comfortable.

For me, any increased weight from bumping up one size in holder/steel wasn't noticeable. I also switched to step steel, which has more material than LS2.1 and I didn't notice any decrease in speed or increase in fatigue.

OK, fair point. I understand completely about feel. Unfortunately the math just doesn't back up the concept very well. As you point out, the 9' radius would only extend to about 60% of the blade. This leaves us with 20% to the toe, and 20% to the heel in a neutral blade. 20% of 247mm would be 49.4 mm, 20% of 255mm would be 51mm. A difference of just 1.6mm. Can you feel 1.6mm? That's not vey much.

If you believe you can skate better with the longer blade, I would never tell you otherwise.

The engineer in me says it's likely a mental thing over a mechanical thing.

As an example, I resisted moving to OPS's as opposed to woodies but eventually physics won me over. Once I learned to let the stick do more work than I was used to my shot improved a bunch.

If one of the sharpening gurus wants to discuss I'd love some education as I find the mechanics and physics very interesting.

OP I don't mean to hijack your thread, you just got me thinking about skate blade mechanics and physics.

[ktang 34]

I get a better push skating backwards with a longer blade, especially with backwards crossovers.

[yesido 0]

OK, fair point. I understand completely about feel. Unfortunately the math just doesn't back up the concept very well. As you point out, the 9' radius would only extend to about 60% of the blade. This leaves us with 20% to the toe, and 20% to the heel in a neutral blade. 20% of 247mm would be 49.4 mm, 20% of 255mm would be 51mm. A difference of just 1.6mm. Can you feel 1.6mm? That's not vey much.

If you believe you can skate better with the longer blade, I would never tell you otherwise.

The engineer in me says it's likely a mental thing over a mechanical thing.

As an example, I resisted moving to OPS's as opposed to woodies but eventually physics won me over. Once I learned to let the stick do more work than I was used to my shot improved a bunch.

If one of the sharpening gurus wants to discuss I'd love some education as I find the mechanics and physics very interesting.

OP I don't mean to hijack your thread, you just got me thinking about skate blade mechanics and physics.

No worries, I like the discussion. I agree that it probably is a mental thing. That said, the difference, as a couple of people have sort of said, isn't really in the part of the blade that is profiled. It is in the push, toe kick, leaning back on the heels to make certain moves, etc. - in other words, in the areas where the toe and heel are relevant, and therefore the overall length of the blade is what matters. So the difference would be the full 8 mm, or 4 mm at each end. Is that truly noticeable? No idea, but it is certainly a lot bigger of a difference than 1.6 mm.

[ktang 34]

I can easily notice the difference between 272mm and 263mm holders.