Brians Thief CA

[darmin 2]

Hey guys,

I am just starting out in goal, mainly as a back up and tired of going to drop in games with no goalie. Finding gear is hard but a a Brians theif CA has come up cheap on ebay . $100.00 landed to me so thats a great deal. I'm Located in Northern Australia.

I am after opionions and information on the Brians Theif CA. I have tried google etc and can only find information on the gloves.

[Law Goalie 147]

One thing's for sure -- if you convert to goalie and cover games that had previously been empty-net affairs, you'll find friends you never knew you had.

I would imagine it's next to impossible to get hold of goalie gear on the cheap in Australia, short of taking a trip up to one of the factories on in Asia; shipping stuff that bulky definitely wouldn't be a pleasant proposition.

I personally haven't had much time for Brian's C/As (they just don't work for me), but I can give you a little intel on the Thief. It was considered an fairly light C/A for its time, with very good mobility once broken in, and pretty good protection through the arms (which did take a while to break in), shoulders and upper chest, thanks to good shoulder-floaters and a breastplate. The protection through the lower chest, belly and ribs, however, was generally thought to be sub-par. The fit was also relatively narrow: while slender guys felt the coverage was pretty good - even though the protection in those covered areas could have been better - guys with bigger chests or guts felt themselves pretty exposed. Unfortunately, the Thief also fit quite short in length, meaning that, in retail units, perfectly sized arms would often be attached to a chest piece that was bordering on too short; most guys who ordered custom would get, for example, an XXL body and XL or even L arms. Later versions like the DX2 improved on the Thief in almost every way, though the later Zero-G was, unfortunately a bit of a bust (or so a couple of retailers told me).

Basically, if you're fairly skinny and the Thief fits you well, it should do fine: just be prepared for the odd stinger or bruise through the midsection. If that really starts to bother you, you can always add some 'ghetto' protection by gluing rectangles of camping mat or yoga mat (EVA foam, generally) onto the outside of the belly and rib blocks, or go the while hog and sew another outer layer of protection over those areas. Likewise, if you're handy (or know someone who is) it's not that hard to add an extra row of padding to the robs of the bottom of the belly. You can also order extra rib and belly pieces made to extend or enhance your C/A from Sara at PAW (Protective Athletic Wear); her prices and quality are universally acknowledged to be first-class, and shipping those smaller pieces should be a lot less painful.

$100 shipped (to Down Under) for a Thief C/A in good condition is a pretty fair deal, as long as it's going to fit. It's possible to do better, but as you said, your options are limited by geography, and it tounds like you'd rather start sooner than later.

Let us know how it goes!

[darmin 2]

Thanks for the reply - all of your posts on this site have been a big help when trying to locate what type of gear to consider.

In relation to the CA sadly I'm not of the skinny variety but I am thinking I might be able to add the chest plate from our riot gear to the front - not to thick, or heavy and it protects from rubber bullets ok. If it is unusable I might be able to off load to one of the skinny kids in my home town. As its the only one i can find for under the $350 mark landed will give it a go, I have purchased it and it should land tomorrow so will see how it goes.

So far I have picked up some cheap leg pads (Vaughan Exceed VPG890) - Need a few repairs, and I am currently adding better side padding (calf wings?). Also have removed the attached thigh guard in favour of knee pads with thigh guard (home made copies of the PAWS ones). Also the pads have the open toe and after doing some research and reading I am going to make a thin plate to cover this and add a sliding toe tie. Once completed will add some photo's of the before and after product.

Blocker and catcher are both Sherwood Rebellion BG500 and other then having to replace some of the ties and eyelets they are in ok condition.

Helmet - I have noticed a number of guys over here are using Rebook 3k helmets? would I beter using one of these or a players combo until i can find a decent helmet on ebay or save for a new proper helmet? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300710411059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 - I found his on ebay this morning, is it usable?

Shorts - I am still hunting for. and still doing research on neck protection etc.

The other major issue I have here is the heat. We just had a coldest night for the past few years the other night. It got down to a nice 13 Celsius ( about 55 Fahrenheit) and most playing weather is 30 - 40 Celsius (86-104f) for inline and slightly cooler for ice. Most with an 60-80% humidity. We stop both sports over the summer because its just too hot.

[Law Goalie 147]

Glad I can help!

I always like to joke that hockey is an ideal, necessarily air-conditioned summer sport, but the cooling bills are insane. Even some of the better rinks in Toronto - which is hardly Brisbane in terms of climate - become almost unplayable over the summer.

I'd be interested to hear (and see) a little more about that riot gear chest plate: it sounds like it could add some serious protection. What's it made of?

With an older pad like the 890, upgrading the sliding surfaces can make a huge difference: adding stiff, high-density foam and a synthetic PU leather (for ice) or Cordura(for roller) surface to the knee-wing, medial (inside) gusset, and the calf-wing can make almost any pad play like a modern pad. One of the advantages (I'm told) you have in Australia is easier access to the Pacific Rim textile market, so take full advantage! If you build the toe-plate with a 'plug' of foam (covered with PU leather) on the underside, you can effectively flatten the underside of the boot and let your foot move much more freely behind the pad. Good call on the extended knee-pads!

IME, you don't even really need eyelets on the glove perimeter; they're a convenience for the builder, but a pain in the butt for the end user once they get rusted, bent, or broken. The worst damage on my Vaughn T5500 glove happened because of a couple of bent eyelets; they even tore into the top of my left pad!

I would stay away from the Reebok 3K: it's a Lexan shell, so it doesn't represent a meaningful increase in protection over a helmet and cage in any area. In fact, because of the way the cage on a player helmet handles impacts around the jaw, the 3K is significantly less protective overall. (As long as your helmet uses VN foam rather than EPP.) However, I'd definitely suggest an upgrade here. When you can get a custom-fitted Protechsport fibreglass mask that's good enough for NHL use for $300 Canadian, spending 2/3 of that on a 3K doesn't make much sense. I really don't like undercutting hockey companies, but one thing they haven't yet figured out is how to beat the value and protection of a small custom builder. (Michel Doganieri, who makes Protechsport masks and all the Reebok-branded NHL masks, can also add extra vent-holes to your mask and backplate to help with ventilation.)

If you can find a pair of two-piece pants (separable upper and lower halves) you can save a ton on shipping if you have the seller disassemble the pants before the ship: they can be collapsed down to about 1/2 the volume, yielding a big savings in dimensional weight.

As far as neck protection, definitely consider a Maltese GPS gel combo neck guard/collar. They are by miles the most protective and comfortable solution out there, and, as an added bonus, they can be put in the freezer before games and in a portable cooler between periods to help with temperature issues. I've known roller guys who had two that they rotated during games to keep cool.

The other thing you can do for heat is to remove the backplate of your C/A and replace it with a webbing harness. That comes at a cost, obviously, since you're leaving your spine exposed, but in your case the heat stroke may actually be more dangerous than the odds of taking a puck in the back hard enough to chip bone (which, even if you play like Hasek, should be extremely rare).

[fatwabbit 93]

Law Goalie... Darmin is in a town North of Brisbane... and they get hotter up there compared to the temps in Brisbane.

[Law Goalie 147]

Heh... I was literally just reaching for an Australian city to throw in there; any place you've got is hotter than Toronto, and even our ice is, Mastercard Centre notwithstanding, utter rubbish in summer.

[darmin 2]

Thanks Fatwabbit - I used to live in Brisbane and can't wait to get back there.

I play hockey in a place called Townsville and live most of the time and work in a Place called Palm Island. In the 1999 edition of the Guinness Book of Records brought international attention to Palm Island when it named the island the most violent place on earth outside a combat zone. Not as bad today they say.

Well the thief CA arrived today and there seems to be no protection for my ribs under my arms, and its a little short. Tried it on with the chest plate I have and the "beaver" ( protects the lower belly and groin) got in the way.

From what I can see it is made up of three layers, a soft foam 20mm in thickness, a gel like substance 7mm in thickness and a very solid foam 4mm in thickness (almost plastic like). I've emailed our armourer for more information on exactly what it is.

I will make a mock up design this weekend with some normal bed roll foam and camping mat foam (its a sealed foam that doesn't absorb water) to get it right before I cut up the vest.

[fatwabbit 93]

Damian, thought of using one of those G-Form products under the goalie gear?

[darmin 2]

Hey Kev, No hadn't thought of it, Might be a good idea to look into. Hey if you hear of anyone offloading some Large goalie shorts in Brisbane for a reasonble price can you let me know.

Also those sprungs that were MIA were finaly returned to me today so will bring them down next month.

Mock up for the extra padding for the CA is almost complete - Its rough but its only to see if it works. will upload pics tonight.

[fatwabbit 93]

Sent you a text message.

[darmin 2]

Well I have finnished the Mock up of the extra padding.

First I traced the out side lines of the Brians Chest plate onto some 5mm foam. I then drew an outline of where I wanted the extra padding. Once I cut it out i then placed it to my body and trimmed area's that got in the way when i crouched over.

The area's outside of the Brians CA line I placed some thicker foam, 25mm thick and a higher density.I glued these onto the thinner foam so they would keep place.

I then traced the foam outline onto two pieces of material that appeared and felt similar to the brian CA, and one peace of thinner material and another piece of 5mm foam. When cutting out the material i guessed about 2 inches out from the line and drew a line and cut there.

I then, using the partners new sewing machine, sewed 1 of the pieces of similar matrial over the top of the yellow foam with the thicker foam attached, sewing around the thick pieces. On the back of the foam was the lighter material that i used so that the cotton wouldn't pull through the foam. I then used the last piece of material and sewed it on the back leaving the top open so that i could slide in the final pice of foam. Once inside i have then sewen all around the outside and trimmed it. I then sewed two lines from the shoulder points to the edge of the bottom thick foam to hold it all in place inside the material.

As this is a mock up i used hockey tape as an edge binding. For the proper one I am not sure if i will use pleather or webbing material.

Taken before being trimmed. and edges added.

To attach it to the chest plate i threaded some hockey laces through to holes I made at the top of my made plate (goes through three layers of material and two layers of foam). I attached it to chest plate by the laces going through the eyelets where the arms attach.

Once on, the plate is held on by the same straps as the Brian CA and as the brians CA fits perfectly between the thicker foam holding it in place. And as you can see the coverage area is greatly increased, it fits nicely under the Brians CA and still flexes where required. I have only used it in the back yard with the Mrs shooting pucks at me but its working well for now.

The edge of the brians ca has a red binding, I am wearing a blue tshirt so you can see the extra coverage made, also there is an extra 10mm of foam padding under the CA.

If this works will make one with better foam and a lot neater in its finnish.

Also some might ask why I put the pad under the Brians CA, basically i like the look of the ca and also its held in place by the orriginal straps.

[Law Goalie 147]

Nice work: I especially like the way the buckles are kept off your ribs now, thanks to your template work. Going with a full 'bib' rather than just a perimeter addition was definitely a smart move, and you'd be surprised how much protection a few millimeters of open-cell foam can add at the back of a C/A. I wear a Brown, and I still used to get my nipples paralysed on a regular basis (if it hasn't happened to you yet, wait for it... makes me truly pity female goalies) until I installed some open-cell 'airbags' across the chest.

The only thing you may want to consider is the addition of a couple of diagonal vents (like at the back of a sportcoat) at the bottom corners of the C/A, along the natural lines of flex when you bend forward. You may find that allows a little extra freedom of movement at the cost of a little extra sewing.

I have only used it in the back yard with the Mrs shooting pucks at me but its working well for now.

That is so awesome it beggars description.

[darmin 2]

Well the collecting of gear has continued, picked up a cheap Eddy Pro helmet that needs cleaning and maybe repainting.

I was looking at skates for inline - I have a couple of pairs of players boots I am thinking of using. Is it possible to get a cowling for inline skates? Also looking at getting a stick or two, is there any benefit to the wood, foam core? or carbon sticks on the market.

[Law Goalie 147]

Nice pickup on the mask: the top-end Eddy's are very good.

I imagine that you could order replacement cowlings from Bauer or Tour through a retailer and have them shipped. Another way is just to get a pair of cheap cowlings (or cheap skates) and use an angle-grinder to remove the blade holders and smooth the underside down. However, not all cowlings are made equal in this respect. If you do find a sufficiently cheap pair of skates to try this, just post pics and I'll let you know whether it'll work; that's easier than my trying to explain the differences between certain Bauer cowlings.

In terms of handling impacts and not breaking, solid wood is by far the best. I don't have any time for foam-core sticks: though there's a little less vibration, I guess, they've never seemed much lighter, and break much more readily. Composite sticks offer three enormous advantages: a thinner, stiffer blade for deflecting low shots to the corner glass, much more powerful and consistent shooting (wood and foam-cores go soft quite quickly), and noticeably reduced weight. However, composite sticks are also much more likely to crack or implode from shots. None will be especially durable in terms of abrasion along the bottom of the blade on roller surfaces, where ABS is king. You could, however, put a little strip of low-friction plastic or tape along the bottom of the blade - just don't lean on it!

[darmin 2]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CCM-TACKS-Goalie-Skates-size-9-/320926589433?pt=AU_Skating&hash=item4ab8b721f9

Any idea's on these? For australia they are cheap.

[Law Goalie 147]

Those absolutely will not work for your purposes. The SLM cowlings (which those and many other skates from that period use) had the blades moulded so deep into the plastic that you'd have to grind off most of the sole to get the metal off; the cowlings would be totally gored and effectively (if not actually) split in half.

[darmin 2]

Thanks for the advice, Think I will put the money towards buying proper skates. If only there was more pick up hockey as I am starting to like being in net, but I think my partner likes pelting me with pucks at home too much.

Other then the skates the final piece of the puzzel apears to be the shorts, keeping an eye out for shorts in australia or cheap ones over seas that are advertised with a reasonable shipping cost.

[Law Goalie 147]

If you can find two-piece goalie pants with separable upper and lower halves (usually held together by suspender rivets), they can be packaged *much* smaller than regular pants. They're relatively rare and not easy to spot, so I'll let you know if I see any floating around.

Don't get me wrong, those CCM skates would be great for ice -- they're just not suited for a roller conversion.

[darmin 2]

Thanks for the great help so far,

I have dome some searching and can get a number of pants landed for a reasonable price. Are they worth using or should i keep looking for a higher end product

he options are,

Bauer RX4 $160 landed

Bauer Supreme Pro (used - no holes) $140 landed

DR HPX90 $145

DR HPX60 $110

As for the ccm skates i am picking them up for the ice games.

[Law Goalie 147]

Ah I misunderstood about the skates; I thought you were trying to chop the blades off, which would be nightmarish with those.

Of those, the Supreme Pros are by far the best quality pants, though they weren't Bauer's best design by any means, and $140 seems quite high. I'd imagine a fairly significant chunk of that is shipping.

[darmin 2]

The Supremes are local in australia and only $30 freight. I will keep a look out for something of higher quality.

My intial intention with the skates was to cut then down for inline and buy a new pair for ice. But will go the other way and use these for ice.

Thanks

[darmin 2]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but i picked up a nice Mesiah catcher and blocker combo - Thanks Fatwabbit.

The catcher is missing the padding that covers the fingers. ( not sure what its called) Before I try and make one from scratch is anyone able to advise where I can get this peace - either original or an aftermarket company who will make one for me to lace on.

[Law Goalie 147]

Good man, wabbit.

Do you mean the backhand -- the piece that covers your fingernails and knuckles? I did see a couple of backhands (Brian's, I think) floating around on eBay a while back. I also know a guy in Toronto who has a ton of spare parts; I'll ask him. Failing that, you'd have to buy another, cheaper/crappier glove and take the backhand from it. You could tear the rest of that second glove apart for fun and education.

[darmin 2]

I do mean the back hand, I have a sherwood rebelion glove I will take the back hand of and if it fits make up one that matches the warrior glove. So much more protection on the warriors compared to the Sherwoods.

[Law Goalie 147]

Yeah, catching gloves are one of the areas it's really hard to cut corners: you'll notice the loss of mobility, comfort, and protection *much* more in a crummier glove than you will with blockers, or even with pads. A friend of mine - huge guy I got started in net - bought a set of RBK 5Ks. The blocker lasted fine until the palm wore out; he had to replace the knee-blocks (just the block, not the wing) on the pads, and re-bind the toes, but that was it; the glove was a disaster from Day 1. It's not impossible to make a cheap glove that works, but it's much, much harder than making a blocker or a pair of pads, which are basically just hard pillows with straps. A catching glove is like a baseball glove with a plastic palm and a huge perimeter -- not an easy thing to engineer unless you really know what you're doing, and the tolerances are very, very fine. Something as simple as lacing the palm and perimeter of the glove a fraction too tightly can make it impossible to close; a fraction too lose and you're looking at broken metacarpals.

The other thing that can really screw up a glove is - unfortunately for you - an ill-fitted backhand. Some TPS gloves, chiefly the Xceed, had huge problems with this: their backhands were so small they literally prevented the glove form closing properly. Basically, what you have to do is get used to the feeling of the glove without a backhand - snap it open and closed a bunch of times, play catch with it, etc. -- and then quickly attach the backhand around the fingers, and start experimenting with the attachment of the backhand to the cuff. You should not, ideally, feel any change in the movement or closure of the glove; if you feel any change, loosen it at the cuff until it works; if you can't connect to the cuff at all without screwing up the feel, loose the cuff at the fingers an inch or so and then try again. If at any point you lose a clear sense of what the glove felt like without the backhand, mark where you are, take it off, and start all over again.