Getting back in after 20 years, inline since then-help!

[Ebolav 0]

Stopped hockey after tearing ACL @ 14, took up inline once I had it repaired @ 18. I've been intermittently doing so ever since (16 years), and figured I should try real hockey instead of just skating around for fun.

I joined a beginner league in MN, and by and large doing fine; I'm probably in the top 5 of the 34 people there for skating. Inside edge, crossovers, one footed all come easily. Backwards is shaky but functional/still better than most of the rest. Now stopping is another story.

Long story short-I think 16 years of stopping on wheels has ruined my ability to stop on blades. I can stop like I do on wheels, doing a really tight/fast pivot turn. It works, but I end up facing the opposite direction, probably not the best idea. Last week a coach helped me figure out the problem is that I am virtually always on my inside edges, which apparently is common for inliners switching over? It's so bad that even holding the boards and trying to 'make snow' with the flat part by pushing my foot out is difficult. I can do it, but only with concentration. Otherwise, my blade 'digs in' too much and sticks. I cannot even snowplow for the same reason.

Anyone else have this transition difficulty? Suggestions? Are my skates not tight enough, thus ankles turning inwards? Do I need to sharpen them differently for a wider flat part of the blade? Arch support? Are my skates the right size (size 11 wide shoe, 9.5 E CCM ultralight skates). I have no idea, but after 3 weeks 99% of skating has come back to me, but I have gotten no better at stopping. Thanks, I appreciate any advice.

Kent

[althoma1 575]

If you're used to inline I'd start by trying a shallower hollow. I play both inline and ice and prefer a shallower hollow for ice - I find a deeper hollow bites too much and I notice chatter when I stop, but with a nice shallow hollow I can stop very smoothly. Now, I'm also a fairly heavy guy that's north of 200lbs, so you may not need to go as shallow as I do. I used to use a 3/4" or 7/8" standard hollow and now use 90/50 Flat Bottom V. With the standard hollow I moved up gradually from 5/8" with a standard hollow and went shallower from there. That may be a good starting point as well. If you have access to Flat Bottom V (search here, there's a long thread on that) then I'd start with 90/75 on that. With either cut you can go shallower or deeper from there.

A lot of shops use a 1/2" hollow for their standard cut so I suspect that's probably what you're using now. You describe your blade digging in too much which sounds like a case of using a hollow that's too deep for you. I think you'll see more progress if you try a shallower hollow.

[Ebolav 0]

If you're used to inline I'd start by trying a shallower hollow. I play both inline and ice and prefer a shallower hollow for ice - I find a deeper hollow bites too much and I notice chatter when I stop, but with a nice shallow hollow I can stop very smoothly. Now, I'm also a fairly heavy guy that's north of 200lbs, so you may not need to go as shallow as I do. I used to use a 3/4" or 7/8" standard hollow and now use 90/50 Flat Bottom V. With the standard hollow I moved up gradually from 5/8" with a standard hollow and went shallower from there. That may be a good starting point as well. If you have access to Flat Bottom V (search here, there's a long thread on that) then I'd start with 90/75 on that. With either cut you can go shallower or deeper from there.

A lot of shops use a 1/2" hollow for their standard cut so I suspect that's probably what you're using now. You describe your blade digging in too much which sounds like a case of using a hollow that's too deep for you. I think you'll see more progress if you try a shallower hollow.

That makes perfect sense. I just had them sharpened, and yeah, it was 1/2" since I didn't know any better. I'm 5'11", 175 lbs. So that I understand, the larger # hollow refers to the width of the flat part of the skate? I'll look up flat bottom V too. My only concern would be will doing this lead to me learning to do it with poor form, and thus I'll always have to have a shallower hollow? Are there any downsides to it in terms of speed, turning, etc?

Again, thanks so much for the clear explanation

The flat bottom link didn't work, just FYI

[Ebolav 0]

I read up on the V elsewhere, it makes sense re: the advantages. I didn't find anything specific to being easier to stop/easier if you tend to skate on inside edges. I'll keep looking though :)

[althoma1 575]

The larger number refers to a gradual and more shallow Radius of Hollow or ROH. A shallow hollow will have more pronounced edges and a bigger player puts alot of pressure and weight on edges and that creates the feeling of your blades digging in too much. It will also wear out the edges faster. A flatter hollow will allow you to skate more on top of the ice instead of digging deep into the ice which will result in more glide and less leg fatigue, but less bite for hard turns and cuts. A shallow hollow should also last longer as long as you don't end up catching your blades on bare metal like goal posts or another skate blade (or step on cement). A shallow hollow should be better for straight away speed, but you'll have to be a little more proficient on your edges for tight turns and starts. There are entire threads dedicated to "which hollow should I use?" type questions where experienced sharpeners provide more details. I'm just providing some high level information.

Flat Bottom V doesn't make it easier to stop, but I prefer that cut for the reasons you likely read about in the other thread. For now, I'd try moving to a shallower standard cut like 5/8" and going from there (if you still feel like you have too much grip on stops you could go to 11/16" or 3/4". If you feel like you don't have enough grip then you could try 9/16"). At 175lbs you likely won't need to use a cut that's as shallow as mine, but I'd say you'd benefit from a hollow that's shallower than 1/2" especially if you're used to roller where you generally don't have as much grip. There will be an adjustment period as it will feel different, but I really do think you'll benefit from a shallower hollow and it should help with your issues if I'm understanding them correctly.

After you've grown more comfortable using your edges with a shallower standard cut then you may want to try out FBV at some point for additional performance gains (if you want to jump to that now then 90/75 would likely be a good place to start - the numbers for hollows are different for FBV as I'm sure you read in that thread). That really won't help (or hinder) stopping.

[Chadd 916]

103 pages on the FBV:

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42307-blackstone-flat-bottom-v-thread/

[Ebolav 0]

Thanks to you both. If I understand correctly, FBV aside, a shallower hallow=easier to stay on flat portion of blade, and thus for me --->better ability to stop due to not being on inside edge all the time. I look forward to trying it out :)

[Chadd 916]

Shallow hollow = less bite when you dig in the edges (turning, stopping, etc...)

[Puck Norris 0]

I actually changed to a shallow hollow (3/4") when I first started playing a few years ago because I had a very hard time stopping also. It may not be the same mentality of the inline transition to ice, but I can tell you that when I learned to skate well on 3/4" I switched back to 1/2" with almost no transition time. Just seemed like I could magically turn sharper and stop faster.

[Ebolav 0]

I think I'm going to go with 3/4" or 90/50 if they do FBV...I really feel like if I have a more forgiving edge to work with, I'll be able to stop no problem. I'll let you know how it goes :)

[althoma1 575]

That's a huge jump from 1/2". I'd start with 5/8" or 90/75 and then go shallower if you feel you need to do so. Going to 3/4" or 90/50 FBV eventually is fine if that's what you end up liking, but if you jump straight there from 1/2" you might feel like you don't have any bite at all.

[Ebolav 0]

Interestingly, I went to the local, highly regarded mom and pop store this weekend, and the guy didn't feel like changing hollows was the answer to my problems. He said my stopping tendencies sounded like a normal progression of how people learn to stop, and that wrapping my ankles with athletic tape (the stretchy brown kind) would add a little bit of ankle stiffness to help me stay straighter. Based on the feedback on here, it's not what I was expecting.

[mcawesome 1]

Maybe it is that easy? I mean, I'm sure changing hollows could help as well, but the key to stopping is trusting yourself while the process is happening. With more confidence on the ice, your stopping will get better and eventually you'll do it without thinking about it.

[althoma1 575]

I could see completely new skaters having ankle strength issues, but you've been playing inline for years so I don't think ankle strength is your issue. Now, boot stiffness could be your issue - if your skates are really worn out and don't have any ankle support left then that could create a problem, but then the solution would be to get new skates that have better ankle support. Are your skates in good condition? Can you easily compress the ankle area with one hand or is that area still pretty stiff?

You can always try using the athletic tape, but I don't think that'll help you with your stopping issues. I think the hollow change will be more effective and would have other benefits as well (better glide, less leg fatigue ect.). Of course, if your skates are shot and don't have any support than new skates may have to be the first step.

Assuming your skates are in good conidtion, you can always try taping your ankles or changing your hollow - I wouldn't do both at the same time as then you won't know which one is really helping you. I'd start with the hollow change, but the choice is obviously yours.

[Ebolav 0]

He did measue my foot, and felt my skates were the right size, and provided enough support. I bought superfeet b/c being used, he felt the existing foodpads might benefit from replacing, and that it might help the achy feeling on the bottom of the balls of my feet. I just feel like if I can't even hold the boards and shave snow because I'm too turned inwards and bite, it's hard to make much progress

Not sure if I mentioned this, my skates are ccm crazyultralight, used one season by a D1 player. The guy said the blade was only 1/3 worn down, and seemed to be in good shape.

He felt the ankle support would help me keep my feet more upright, until I developed better muscle control. And despite a long history of inline skating, I haven't done so in about 15 months...

[althoma1 575]

I think you mean CCM U+ CL (Crazy Light). That's a high end skate and if it's in good condition and fits your feet well then the skate shouldn't be the issue. Taping and changing the hollow are both cheap and easy to try so try one and then the other and hopefully one or both will help.

[Ebolav 0]

Yeah, what you said (skate) :)

[Ebolav 0]

Another practice in the books. I had a coach look at my stop tonight, and she said instead of a hockey stop, I do a really tight C cut. I know she's right, but not sure what to do; she said I go into my stopping motion and immediately turn my lead ankle inward (again, apparently commonplace for inline skating). We didn't have time to go further other than emphasizing the need to keep my ankles straight. Easier said than done-suggestions?

[wrangler 157]

So the same guy who told you to tape your ankles told you that your skates provide enough support?

I gather he also told you that your skates are the right size, but you are the one who can tell if they fit your foot shape. If you don't really notice any fit problems, it's probably technique and lack of practice, as you've been told. Work on not turning, just planning a stop, period. Like any motor skill, you have to concentrate on the details of what you're doing at first, and after a while it can be done without conscious thought.

[Ebolav 0]

No, guy who said tape ankles was guy at mom and pop hockey shop. Coach who said my skates looked fine is in charge of the league I'm in.