Current equivalent Junior skate

[zebra_steve 11]

Some of you may remember I was looking for some Bauer one35 Junior skates a couple years back.... well, I found them and my daughter has finally outgrown them - she just doesn't realize it yet. Once she has some time off the ice this summer she will notice how small they really are and we will need to get her new skates like right now because parctice or camp is next week.... SO, can someone give me a good idea of the equivalent model that's current production or maybe available out there on close out? Or, sell me on something in a junor that's good for a strong skater with narrow feet on a 5 foot tall 80 pound frame. Yeah, I know... not much out there... I was thinking of a one.6 or an x5.0 or an X 6.0.... Going too much higher would result in a boot that is too stiff for proper forward flex and edge control.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

If she has a narrow foot then you would be best int he 5.0 or X6.0.

[zebra_steve 11]

Unfortunately she inherited my feet so definitely narrow (and a size difference between feet).... Last time I measured she came up as a "C" width on a Branock device.... Should probably go with Graf, but she hates the look of them enough that she won't even try them on.....

So what would be the equivalent tot he one35? I'm thinking the one.6?

[AIREAYE 248]

I would suggest starting from scratch and getting her refit. What fit well previously (Supreme) might not fit well now, since her feet has grown. For the One35, you'd be looking at the One.5 and One.6 range, and X3.0 or X50/X60 range.

[zebra_steve 11]

It's a given that I'll re-fit her. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do these days when you are a true "C width - which she is..... It's the boot construction that I'm looking at at the moment. I am looking for a ballance between support, forward flex, and durability. She got two seasons out of the one35's but grew a good 6" plus and put on 25 pounds in that time period. I suspect that this summer will be expensive as we will probably be buying skates and pants before September.

[AIREAYE 248]

Then something like a One.7 or a X4.0/5.0/X80 would be good upgrades.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Try and go with a slightly used pair to tide ou over till then? That way you could sample the fit of the Vapor and look in the fall at a skate for a longer period of time. For Girls Graf and C width or Narrow works very well a 703 would be one I would highly recommend to allow for that forward flex.

[zebra_steve 11]

+1 on the used skates....Been doing that since she started playing.

Biggest problem with used skates are that the blades are usually absolutely abused. Not much value in sending $50 on used skates when you have to replace the blades and maybe the mounts too unless I luck into a pair of top end boots.... I almost pulled the trigger a couple times on used skates this year but she kept saying that the old ones fit fine. These one35's (her second set)) were her first pair of new skates and I suspect that she just really likes these skates and refuses to part with them until she has to...... I've been around the block more times than I'd care to count these days and I'm real particular about skates.... I lived the transition from leather boots & metal tube blades through the present and don't necesarilly agree witht he direction the manufacturers have gone. I personally wish I could get custom Mako's - but I digress....

Definitely agree on the Grafs... I skated in them for a couple years. While the classic look appeals to this old fart, she doesn't like the looks so that's an uphill battle there.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well the benefit for the women is they do not bend enough for the most part from the knee. These would make this easy. You could wait till the new ones come out and they are very much like the supremes but I will bet her $100 the ankle padding and liner will feel like nothing she has ever worn and she will switch!

(Coached 15 to 17 girls last 8 years I know your pain)

[zebra_steve 11]

She's definitely a vapor or a graf narrow foot. Like I said, she got my feet and I've been in customs since the late 1980's because of it. Every so often skating on a stock boot temporarily out of necessity. Spring hockey is done next weekend so she'll have a couple weeks off the ice. I'm thinking July will begin the skate search in earnest... in a way, I really would like to put her in Grafs if only to utilize the cobra mounts with the extra forward lean... just add Step Steel..... Heck, If I can find a decent bauer boot, maybe I will order the cobra's and mount them myself...

I know what you mean about getting the girls to get a good deep knee bend. 90% of the girls I see and have coached usually are too upright with a stiff mechanichal stride... It's like they are thinking about each facet of the stride instead of just developing the good habits and just doing it. And then there's just the different way you have to approach coaching the girls vs the boys...

[jsykes 35]

Graf will have their new MCI line out soon which is a composite boot much like the Supreme series from Bauer. Maybe she'll be more likely to try that one on and ok with the look since it will look very similar in construction to the Supreme line.

[zebra_steve 11]

Just looked at the MCI line.... looks interesting. Makes me want to see what they are all about.... Unlike Easton's, I know that I can get custom Graf's.... Not sure I would be paying the $$$ for a top end skate for a PeeWee.... but I've been in customs for almost 25 years....

Thanks for the input guys..... sounds like I'm thinking in the correct model ranges....

[zebra_steve 11]

Well, Went out an looked at the boots last night... and I am really disappointed. Here's my opinion for what it's worth.... add $5 and you can get a cup of coffee.

Graf - new construction looks very CHEAP..... Not what I'm used to seeing from Graf..... Hated the tendon guards on most of what I looked at.... Will allow that they could grow on you like a fungus if the fit was there.... Hard sell to my daughter....

Bauer - lowest model I would consider on the supreme side would be the 0ne.7 - maybe....

Bauer - Current production? Apex x50, x60, x70 - would not buy them, they look like they would not last more than a season...a player on my daughters team this past year had the x50's and he killed them. He was same size but not as good a skater as my daughter. Hate the tech fabric or whatever they are calling it.....

Bauer - Left over Vapor x 5.0, x 6.0, x 7.0 - probably gonna be where we end up. Boot looks solid while still allowing for some forward flex.

Really wish she could wear CCM or Reebok I like them much better than the current Bauer offerings. I compared current Bauer stuff to older used Bauer and while I didn't take notes I was left feeling that the quality and durability has gone way down over the past 10 years or so.

Now for the really bad news..... I measured her foot again.... Measures out as a 5C on the bauer stick....(she's wearing a 3.5 now!?!?!? and says that they are maybe just a little small (and I thought I wore them tight way back when). SO we can maybe stay in junior skates for this next season depending on how much she grows...... I have a line on the the skates locally (junior and senior sizes) so we'll probably look to pull the trigger in a month or so.... I'm really afraid that she's gonna grow a bunch over the next year.... $$$$$

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Here is the good news for you. Working with girls for the last 10 years at the highest level most females are done growing in there feet by 14 latest 16.

Now the new grafs are not out yet so I am not sure what ones you tried on?

[zebra_steve 11]

Yeah I can see that . My older daughter is a figure skater and jumped through 5 pairs of skates between 10 and 12 years old.... she's almost 15 now and has been stabilized pretty much since she was 13... I'm afraid daughter #2 is in the middle of same type jump. She's 11 and already nearly as tall as her older sister.... I could have to buy a lot of skates in the next 3 years....

Didn't try any Grafs on... YET. She hated the looks and I didn't like the construction ... These were some of the Supra and Ultra series listed on the Graf Canada site for Narrow foot\heel with a moderate or pronounced heel. (first two options on the interactive guide) .... Hockey hiatus starts in 11 days..... Probably need to buy replacement skates by the end of June for a probable camp in mid July... Might like to do it now but we need to put it off as long as we can..... need to decide on how much room for growth to give her.... Could be really easy to drop $200 on skates that need to be replaced by October.... Which brings me back to maybe the used boot with new blades...I keep flip flopping on new\used due to the potential growth issue. I would drop $200 on a new pair of skates if she gets a full year out of them because the next stop will be Senior sized skates. Or $75-100 on used with new runnersif she gets half to 3/4 of a season out of the. We got lucky to find decent used high end Reidell, Harlick, and SP Terri skates for my older daughter..... She's in a Harlick custom now..... Hope we get as lucky this time around....

[jsykes 35]

You should wait and look at the MCI Grafs, totally different than the current offerings.

As to the Bauers, the X50 just came out this past April, so whatever the kid on your daughters team had last year was not the X50. Also, that is one of the lowest models they make. You should be looking more at the X80 and X90 level.

[zebra_steve 11]

Well I'm gonna sound like a smatr-ass here, but the boot had an "X" and a "50" on it, they were purchased new in October, and they looked to be the same as what I had in my had. Were they 2011 vs 2012? I dunno but I based what I wrote on what I laid hands on..... The whole Bauer "confuse them with model name thing" wears really thin on me. Back in the 1980's we joked that Bauer would make three cosmetic changes, one minor structural change then rename or increment the model number.....

That said, We don't have time to wait much longer. Her skates are 1.5 sizes too small and she might be off the ice for two or three weeks tops this summer.... Plan on a skills camp in mid July and there will be 5 weeks between the end of her spring hockey and the camp.... and I know that she'll want to skate some public sessions in between.... We are probably going to have our hand forced a bit... My wife is afraid that we'll be rejoining the new pair of skates a month club this year...... Maybe some folks can walk in and drop a couple hundred $ a pop on a pair of skates and not worry about it, but that ain't us...

Sorry if this sounds like a rant..... the direction that the manufacturers have forced the consumers regarding skate selection, sizing, and construction is a real pet peeve of mine... really easy to get me on a roll.....

[907amiller 0]

The skates that the boy has were not the new Vapor line, as was pointed out, those just came out. He had the X:50 skates which were part of the Vapor line before the APX, 7.0, 6.0, etc.; they were part of the X:60 line. I'm not sure what year they came out but they are an older model.

[zebra_steve 11]

AHHH that makes sense then... I forgot about the X:60 being in there.... I need a score card.... with pictures and braile captions. Guess the one good thing about her probably growing into a senior skate in the next year or so and then stabilizing is that I can just get a top end custom boot and she might be set for years - haha.

Well, the hunt is almost never ending so I'll add some notes and keep on looking.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I am willing to bet she wont make Sr. My daughter is 19 turning 20 has a size 8.5 to 9 Ladies shoe but she wears a size 5 RBK.

That being said my 9 year old son is almost as tall and is 15 lbs heavier and only wears a 1 but its to small going Graf new series next.

[zebra_steve 11]

Let all keep out fingers crossed... I may be close. I really hate that she's inherited my feet. she's gonna have fun getting decent skate fit the rest of her life. Narrow feet and when it's all said and done between a half and full size difference in length...... Interestingly, I'm a righty and my left foot is a full size bigger and she's a lefty and is opposite with the right foot being a half size bigger at this point.

OTG - How would you fit her?

Since I mentioned it above, here's a question that I have been pondering with all of this..... and it really could end up being maybe a deciding factor on what skates we buy next.

Right foot is 5C, Left foot is 4.5C per the Bauer fit gauge (couldn't lay my hands on a Brannok device).... probably 6.5R & 6L on the shoe size. She turned 11 in February and she grew a good 6" in the last year. Importantly, puberty has not yet reached full bloom ..... um...... well.... let's say its starting but she hasn't gotten that monthly friend yet, so she probably has a bit more growing to do. Would you look to fit her into a 5 or a 5.5? Remember that subjectively she will probably say that the 5 feels better as she's now in a 3.5 and uber tight is what she's used to. I've been fitting her with a tiny bit of room in the larger foot, but no more than a half size. What's your opinion on this one?

[jsykes 35]

If it were me, I'd start at a 5 and then adjust from there depending on how the skate fit. It will depend on the model and brand as I find, even within Bauer, models fit differently. Her best bet in a Bauer would be the Vapor line as its the narrowest and lowest volume of the three Bauer lines.

If you do look at Graf, you may be a half size larger in that as they tend to run smaller in my experience (a 5 in Bauer is a 5.5 in Graf), but there again, it depends on the model of Graf. I'm not sure how the new MCI line will fit as they havent come out yet.

But I would start at a 5 becuase you need to account for the smaller foot. Too much room on that foot and you have a problem.

I know you said she hates the look of the Grafs, but you may really need to tell her that looks are not important. A good skate you might consider is the 735, its a fairly high end and very good quality skate and in a jr size, it is available in a narrow width. She may not like the look, but its a good skate and if it fits her right, that is the most important thing.

Back to the Bauer X50. As someone said, he likely had the old model X50 which at this point are about three years old (it may also have been an X5.0 and you just missed the decimal confusing things further). At the time, that model was the second highest model in the Vapor line. Bauer has confused us by bringing back the X50 and X60 names (top two models in previous years) and have placed those in the lower levels of this years line. The equal to the old X50 is now about the X80. So if you look at current Bauers, look to the X80 or X90 models of skates.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Personally seeing as you asked Zebra I would actually look for a used Vapor with little wear in a 4.5 with some decent blade left to get to September. If by chance they are still good then keep going but have her fit into the grafs and the new ones I can not remember the model closest to the 703 fit as if her foot is that narrow I assume her leg is as well so the 735 would be to deep for her arch and ankle area.

So a X50 soft tongue good forward flex and durable with some steel left or something right around that model. size 4.5 with I would highly suggest having her measured for superfeet if she has any arch whatsoever to keep her toes off the front in the smaller skate. Biggest mistake in girls hockey (Just coming from the u18 camp) is improper fitting skates with worn out blades.

I saw so many like this it was a joke. Parents paid 300 a kid to be seen by the Ontario scouts for next year's nationals and they have worn out beat up skates with no blades and it wasn't just a few it was the majority of the girls. It ehy spent less on sticks and more on the skate up keep (not new but newer with good steel).

[jsykes 35]

... but have her fit into the grafs and the new ones I can not remember the model closest to the 703 fit as if her foot is that narrow I assume her leg is as well so the 735 would be to deep for her arch and ankle area.

Unfortunately, there is no 703 fit in anything anymore except the 703 which is only available in SR sizes. All their new skates, both traditional and new MCI lines are now based around the "35" fit. They have moved from their different fit ideas to having two lines of all the same fit.

The only skates that remain as different fits than the "35" are the 703, 709, 705 and G7 and unfortunately, those are all SR only skates. So there is nothing in Jr sizing that is not a 35. But, the new 735 is available in narrow fit in Jr sizing which is a possibility.

If you're going the used route, the Vapor X50, X60, X5.0, X6.0 or X7.0, would all be good options.

[zebra_steve 11]

Well, we tried to find some skates on this afternoon but she had an attitude 'cuz she doesn't want new skates & didn't want to go skate shopping.no 4.5's at all, tried size 5 vapor XVII's and X:60's as well as size 5.5 X50 (not the newest, the ones that kinda resembled the "molded surlyn" boot from the CCM U+ line from a couple years ago... I need that dang score card again). Anyway, the size 5.5's seemed a bit too sloppy and the other two looked to be close to failing the pencil test. Now here's the surprise, I actually got her to try on some Grafs. She decided that she liked the fluorescent yellow triangles and the fluorescent yellow\green laces in the G135's on the wall.... happened to be a size 5 right so we tried it on.. She liked them but they didn't seem to have quite enough stiffness.... I looked them up and it sounds like they are targeted as a recreation skate so that's to be expected. Tried on a pair of used G5's size 5.5 that seemed decent and fit better than I expected.... The G5s were in very good shape but might be a little too much boot. They are under consideration at this point. Going to look around for more used Grafs as shes now open to them.

The Saga goes on..... I hate skate shopping....