Steve Yzerman calls for game misconduct penalty for fighting.

[hunterphfr 12]

Link to the article;

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/lightning-makes-over-image-with-nhl-best-10-fights/2148790


I do have serious issues with using the logic behind an argument being based on the concept that: I completely disagree with it as a tactic and strategy and I personally think it is reprehensible and morally wrong , but since everybody else is doing it we'll go along with them and do it even more and better.

We're not talking about a rookie coach trying to break his way into the league. We're talking about Steve Yzerman. If you want to take a stand on the moral high ground, then someone who holds a very lofty and esteemed perch in the hierarchy of hockey as a player, in the front office, within Hockey Canada and as a leader, then one should lead by example. I certainly think you should not have your team be the antithesis of a principle on which you chose to take a stand.

[wrangler 157]

Link to the article;

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/lightning-makes-over-image-with-nhl-best-10-fights/2148790

I do have serious issues with the argument that I completely disagree with it as a tactic and strategy and I personally think it is reprehensible and morally wrong , but since everybody else is doing it we'll go along with them and do it even more and better.

We're not talking about a rookie coach trying to break his way into the league. We're talking about Steve Yzerman. If you want to take a stand on the moral high ground, then someone who holds a very lofty and esteemed perch in the hierarchy of hockey as a player, in the front office, within Hockey Canada and as a leader, then one should lead by example. I certainly think you should not have your team be the antithesis of the principle on which you chose to make your stand.

Article quote: "What makes the fighting question so fascinating with Tampa Bay is the position of general manager Steve Yzerman, who believes it is contradictory of the league to penalize checks to the head in an attempt to reduce injuries while allowing fights."

He's got a point, there, showing an inconsistency by the league, which isn't an unusual thing, considering that bus has 30 drivers.

As to your point that I bolded, I agree, but I haven't seen Yzerman say that fighting is morally wrong, or that he's against it on principle, so I don't see an inconsistency there.

[hunterphfr 12]

"absolutely nothing"? Do you have a source within the organization?

Tampa is a very small hockey town.

You would however be correct that my use of the words "absolutely nothing" was presumptuous. Yet you have a leader of an organization that has gone on record as believing fighting should be eliminated from the game. However, his team leads the league in doing just that. It is relatively easy to come to the conclusion that whatever if anything the leader is doing to curtail such activity within his organization is either non-existant or at best absolutely ineffective.

Therefore next time I will say, Steve Yzerman is doing either very little or has been completely ineffective in curtailing fighting within his own organization. Either way he comes across as hypocritical and/or duplicitous.

[wrangler 157]

Therefore next time I will say, Steve Yzerman is doing either very little or has been completely ineffective in curtailing fighting within his own organization. Either way he comes across as hypocritical and/or duplicitous.

You still haven't backed that up. Taking a position against league-wide fighting is not inconsistent with not attempting to make his team the only one that doesn't fight. Further, I don't see that you've shown these premises to be true. So I see a conclusion that doesn't follow, based on unproven premises. The point I'm making is that I can't accept that as logic.

[hunterphfr 12]

Article quote: As to your point that I bolded, I agree, but I haven't seen Yzerman say that fighting is morally wrong, or that he's against it on principle, so I don't see an inconsistency there.

The point you bolded wasn't made in reference to anything that Yzerman had said or believes and didn't quote him directly. It was made to illustrate why I don't accept as a legitimate excuse or reason the fact that everybody else is doing it so we have to or can do it as well. It's simply not a legitimate argument when my 13 year old says it and it's not acceptable as an excuse on our crew at work either.

[wrangler 157]

The point you bolded wasn't made in reference to anything that Yzerman had said or believes and didn't quote him directly. It was made to illustrate why I don't accept as a legitimate excuse or reason the fact that everybody else is doing it so we have to or can do it as well. It's simply not a legitimate argument when my 13 year old says it and it's not acceptable as an excuse on our crew at work either.

That was precisely my point.

[Chadd 916]

Therefore next time I will say, Steve Yzerman is doing either very little or has been completely ineffective in curtailing fighting within his own organization. Either way he comes across as hypocritical and/or duplicitous.

That position will certainly not sit well with a few people. However, I think you make a very interesting point.

[chippa13 1844]

Too many people will simply say, "how dare you say that about Yzerman?!?!" Fact is, you can't decry fighting and be among the most fighting teams in the league. The old "do as I say, not as I do" argument.

[CommodoreColt 19]

Tampa is a very small hockey town.

You would however be correct that my use of the words "absolutely nothing" was presumptuous. Yet you have a leader of an organization that has gone on record as believing fighting should be eliminated from the game. However, his team leads the league in doing just that. It is relatively easy to come to the conclusion that whatever if anything the leader is doing to curtail such activity within his organization is either non-existant or at best absolutely ineffective.

Therefore next time I will say, Steve Yzerman is doing either very little or has been completely ineffective in curtailing fighting within his own organization. Either way he comes across as hypocritical and/or duplicitous.

That's a fair point. It's equally fair to understand that until official rules are in place that curtails fighting consistently across the league, no single organization can afford to give up competitive advantage on the ice just to make a political point about fighting. It's either everyone gives up fighting or everyone plays by the rules we have right now.

[pondchief 2]

I do like the rule that the OHL and WHL(I think) put into affect this year where every player gets 10 fights, after that its a game misconduct. This may take away from the players that are there for the sole purpose of fighting, which I think is already trending in the nhl because teams want to be able to roll 4 lines of effective players. Plus this would also get rid of the two heaveyweights dropping the gloves and having a boring slugfest where neither player really cares about hurting the other, just wants to get his fights in and get paid. True "good ole" tilts come from within the game, from two players that are involved in the game and have potential to change the game with there hockey ability, and when circumstances boil over they literally fight it out. I for one would not be sad to see all the heaveyweights out of the game.