Wood/Composite Manufacturing Costs

[adubb13 0]

Hey all. I'm trying to get a sense of the difference in manufacturing costs between wood sticks and composite sticks. Anybody have a sense of this? Also, do hockey companies make their own sticks or do they outsource the manufacturing? If so, who makes the sticks for these companies?

Thanks

[bunnyman666 445]

I am an experienced composites constructor, though not experienced in hockey sticks. Besides the obvious costs of wood versus composite material, the methods are so vastly different. What I do know about wood sticks is that the blade and shaft are two different components, much like with a composite stick. And when you look at many wood sticks, the construction method isn't all that different than with a composite stick as it is a laminated core; difference is, the core of the wood stick provides the strength, the composite stick blades have a light core that is reinforced. Some wooden stick blades use three to seven pieces of wood laminated in fibreglass; composite stick blades be constructed in any one of multiple ways. I know that if I were to design a composite stick, I would try to incorporate continuous fibre strands from the toe of the blade to the end of the shaft. Who knows? I may even try to build my own stick one of these days...

Sticks are generally made in factories contracted by the manufacturer. I don't know who is making the composite sticks, but I have a funny feeling that some of the people I got to know in the bicycle industry who are based in Asia probably work with hockey sticks (or did at one time), as composites factories that specialise in sport do more than one thing.

I would say the biggest cost differential is the R&D for composite sticks. Composites have many frontiers, wood sticks haven't advanced in 30+ years. Stainless steel moulds cost a LOT of money for composites. A bike frame mould can cost in excess of $30,000 USD. 3D printers that print composites will definitely end up lowering prototyping costs in time, but a new stick design takes a lot of man hours, which equals $$$. Computer modelling saves some time, but the real world has to test a seemingly good theory.

But if the composite construction is old and proven technology, it would be pretty cheap.

Sorry for the long post. And I am definitely NOT the definitive expert on composite hockey sticks; I've just built many things from CF and have seen a few plants, from peoples' garages to a few plants in North America.

[Chadd 916]

It's hard to give an exact number without mentioning that there are a lot of factors at play. Economy of scale makes a huge difference, it's a lot cheaper per piece when you are making a ton of a particular product instead of just a few at a time. Because of that, the cost of making wood sticks has gone up significantly. As for who makes the sticks, very, very few companies produce their own composite products. It's much cheaper to outsource production for a highly seasonal product like hockey sticks. I can't (won't) give you exact numbers, but figure on shops marking up sticks about a third and one would expect that the brand does something similar when selling to the shops. In theory,that means a manufacturer could sell direct and make a lot more money (or sell cheaper) but the companies that do that do not usually sell enough product to get the same production costs from the manufacturers.

[bunnyman666 445]

The majors are headed this direction; bet on it!

I wanted to quote what Chadd had said, as well.

If the market is small enough and production is small enough, it makes more sense to sell direct. And the funniest thing is that several companies that have sold for years and years only through retailers have started to sell direct. You can not only buy a pair of custom Converse (which I own a pair), but you can buy basically whatever you want that is regular stock online, as well.

I was ***this*** close to pulling the trigger and getting my "turnkey racing triathlon" bicycle dream into a reality. Direct was going to be the only way for me to make it happen because of the small numbers. Triahlon is one twentieth (if that) of all bicycle sales worldwide. I was going to offer a "soft" dealership to fitting shoppes that would charge for the fitting and get a commission for selling the bike. The shoppe would get a bicycle for display (and can't sell the bike until the end of the model year). The warehouse was going to be in the midwest. The bikes would be assembled on the West Coast in a centre that was all that they did. Every forward thinking person in the biz said this was the way it was going to go. While it hasn't gotten there yet, I see the change as we speak.

I don't think bricks and mortar will ever completely go away as people will find that returns are a hassle some times and no matter what, there are people that want to try it on BEFORE buying; but the day is coming that at least for customised ordering and some stock items that are what I call "like it or not" stuff, many manufacturers will offer direct ordering.

[bunnyman666 445]

It's hard to give an exact number without mentioning that there are a lot of factors at play. Economy of scale makes a huge difference, it's a lot cheaper per piece when you are making a ton of a particular product instead of just a few at a time. Because of that, the cost of making wood sticks has gone up significantly. As for who makes the sticks, very, very few companies produce their own composite products. It's much cheaper to outsource production for a highly seasonal product like hockey sticks. I can't (won't) give you exact numbers, but figure on shops marking up sticks about a third and one would expect that the brand does something similar when selling to the shops. In theory,that means a manufacturer could sell direct and make a lot more money (or sell cheaper) but the companies that do that do not usually sell enough product to get the same production costs from the manufacturers.

Certainly.

Also, unless you took your bumps and bruises learning how to manufacture composites, you're at a distinct disadvantage manufacturing yourself and either would have built loss-leaders for years and years or made the most expensive sticks on the market; neither one with the margins would be good for a company's bottom line. But outsourcing can come with it's pitfalls- if you don't iron out a great agreement with the factory or don't outright own it, what was your design could end up rebadged as something else. I've seen it myself in the bike industry.

Wood sticks have ironically become more expensive as a hockey stick to manufacture than it was 30 years ago with the cost of inflation being figured in, even though they have not advanced in about 30 years. Certainly, it has to do with how few are produced, but good wood is also very expensive because of the demand and fewer trees. Ask any instrument builder about the cost of a good piece of figured wood- you will get a 20 minute diatribe about how the "damned Chinese" are buying great blocks of it to make hundreds of thousands of veneer sheets for "crappy Chinese furniture and musical instruments".

[shooter27 116]

Can't comment on cost, but as far as process goes -

Composite

Wood

There a number of videos out there on the composite side

[Chadd 916]

The majors are headed this direction; bet on it!

Sure, we both know it's going to happen at some point. It's going to be yet another bad step for consumers and the sport overall, but it's going to happen.

[DarkStar50 679]

It's been happening already for years with Bauer. Order your custom composite stick under MY BAUER shipped direct to your house. Just have your credit card handy!

[Chadd 916]

It's been happening already for years with Bauer. Order your custom composite stick under MY BAUER shipped direct to your house. Just have your credit card handy!

But we were told the stores would get credit for the sales in their territory and it was a good thing for retailers.