Does the aggressive forward pitch of my Alkali skates put me at greater risk for a knee injury?

[rsmag9 0]

Hey guys, I'm currently recovering from my second ACL reconstruction surgery.  I tore my left one 4 years ago,  and my right one in February.  I've been wearing Alkali RPD Max+ skates since they came out  and love them, but I'm wondering if the aggressive forward pitch might have something to do with the injuries?  Even if they didn't does the pitch put greater strain on my knees, and leave me more vulnerable than say a more nuetral pitch?  I really love the skates but if there's a chance they are a poor choice considering my knee issues I'll try different skates.  Thanks in advance!

[Greg25 0]

I don't really know the answer to your question, but I've always found forward pitch to be good when skating. Also I'm not sure that Alkali has that extreme forward pitch when compared to a vapor ice skate for example.

 

As primarily an ice skater I find the straight 80mm set up to be more of an issue because with a longer wheel base you can get your feet stuck more easily and it feels like it puts more twisting strain on your legs during the push off in your stride, on corners, etc.

[rsmag9 0]

Thanks, that’s an interesting point about the bigger wheels. 

[the_game 452]

Roller is probably bad for your knees in general, and hips for that matter. I think roller is higher impact and less forgiving than ice but if you think moving to a more neutral pitch is going to put less pressure on your knees I'd say try another skate. Its tough to say this will help because along with pitch you have to take into consideration skating style too along with how roller can go from stand up coasting around to a full sprint.

I haven't played roller in a while but my last skates were Alkali and I did like how much more forward they were pitched over either Tour skates that I used or converted ice boots w/ all 80 setups. I'm more of an upright/little knee bend skater but the Alkali put me in a position where I could feel a knee bend more naturally. Maybe buy a lower end skate to try out a hi-lo set up to see if that works for your knees over the Alkali pitch/all 80 set up.

[rsmag9 0]

Ok, thanks.  I really like my Alkalai too but maybe I’ll try a more neutral pitched skate.  Anyone know what’s the a similar fitting boot to the Alakali RPD Max+?  Maybe a Bauer or Mission boot?  Thanks!

[YesLanges 127]

I don't skate on wheels, but I have an ACL repair and I think anything that increases knee bend is safer for your ACL than anything that reduces knee bend. The only time I've ever felt a twinge on the ice and felt the need to get my skate off the ice to protect my knee is where my legs weren't bent much and someone either leaned on me in the slot or otherwise forced me to shift my weight on fairly straight legs with weight on that leg when I wasn't expecting or planning to shift my weight. Other than that, as mentioned, anything that increases the amount of time your foot is planted with weight on it increases the risk of an ACL injury, although more indirectly, (such as where you have to react or where someone forces you to shift your weight) versus directly (such as from the normal forces generated by your natural stride). I use a very aggressive forward pitch and I believe that the risk to your ACL increases with the amount of time you spend leaning less forward, especially if your stride is more naturally forward.

[rsmag9 0]

16 minutes ago, YesLanges said:

I don't skate on wheels, but I have an ACL repair and I think anything that increases knee bend is safer for your ACL than anything that reduces knee bend. The only time I've ever felt a twinge on the ice and felt the need to get my skate off the ice to protect my knee is where my legs weren't bent much and someone either leaned on me in the slot or otherwise forced me to shift my weight on fairly straight legs with weight on that leg when I wasn't expecting or planning to shift my weight. Other than that, as mentioned, anything that increases the amount of time your foot is planted with weight on it increases the risk of an ACL injury, although more indirectly, (such as where you have to react or where someone forces you to shift your weight) versus directly (such as from the normal forces generated by your natural stride). I use a very aggressive forward pitch and I believe that the risk to your ACL increases with the amount of time you spend leaning less forward, especially if your stride is more naturally forward.

Thanks for the insight, it make sense.  I just kind of thru the idea out there as I know the Alkali skates have a more aggressive pitch.  

[flip12 712]

9 hours ago, rsmag9 said:

Ok, thanks.  I really like my Alkalai too but maybe I’ll try a more neutral pitched skate.  Anyone know what’s the a similar fitting boot to the Alakali RPD Max+?  Maybe a Bauer or Mission boot?  Thanks!

Why not add forefoot lift to see if that helps? Keeps you in the same boot and a much more cost effective way to trouble shoot.

[the_game 452]

Sorry I didn't think of this sooner, I have a buddy who is a biomechanical engineer who did a study on ACL injuries. He said pitch of skate would only be one small variable in the equation and there's no right or wrong answer, more so of what feels best and taking the right steps to train properly to avoid injury would be most important. 

[YesLanges 127]

6 hours ago, the_game said:

there's no right or wrong answer

Your buddy probably meant that there's no right or wrong answer only as a general principle, where pitch is an isolated variable (i.e. without knowing or considering anything else about the skater in question). I'd expect that he'd agree that, in terms of pitch, the safest angle for ACL and other knee issues would probably be whatever angle represents the most natural preference of an experienced skater and that changing that angle now would be less safe for that skater. A skater whose natural pitch is forward and who's been skating that way for years would probably be more likely to injure his ACL by changing that angle, especially during the time that he's first adapting to it. If anything, I'd imagine he'd say that it might be the flat-footed, stand-up skater who'd want to consider pitching more forward to protect his knees rather than the other way around.

[flip12 712]

16 hours ago, the_game said:

Sorry I didn't think of this sooner, I have a buddy who is a biomechanical engineer who did a study on ACL injuries. He said pitch of skate would only be one small variable in the equation and there's no right or wrong answer, more so of what feels best and taking the right steps to train properly to avoid injury would be most important. 

Is it published?

[rsmag9 0]

Thanks guys, if nothing else it’s interesting to get some opinions.  

[the_game 452]

4 hours ago, flip12 said:

Is it published?

His specific study focused on female soccer players I think, but he's a hockey guy so I tried to get his take on it. I believe he had a few things published or was involved with a few things that got published, will have to ask him.

[YesLanges 127]

5 hours ago, the_game said:

His specific study focused on female soccer players I think, but he's a hockey guy so I tried to get his take on it. I believe he had a few things published or was involved with a few things that got published, will have to ask him.

That definitely makes him someone whose intuitive thoughts about it are valuable; but he'll also know that it's very tough to draw any conclusions derived from females to males on this particular topic because of the known greater vulnerability to ACL injuries in females relating to what I believe they refer to as the "Q angle" associated with wider hips. That's something that's been well-established in the literature. My guess is that the amount of blade on the ice (or wheel surfaces on the floor), knee bend, and the amount of time that a stride leaves the blade or wheels in contact with the skating surface will be the most important variables, with pitch only contributing indirectly as a function of one or more of those variables.