Boot punch/stretch for modern tech

[jmaister 4]

Hello all. Another flatfooter with severe pronation here... Its bad enough I still can't hockey stop...

Superfeet insole raises the heel too high, ccm orthomove takes too much space away.

After 20 years of trying, I am resorting to heatgun usage. Since I don't play enough to afford custom skates.

Has anyone tried punching digi comp material? Or is modern composite shells friendly to such method?

I am thinking of getting a pair of vapor3.7 8ee and punch it til it fits.

 

And why vapor, the heel locks the best in all skates I have tried.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:30 PM, jmaister said:

Hello all. Another flatfooter with severe pronation here... Its bad enough I still can't hockey stop...

Superfeet insole raises the heel too high, ccm orthomove takes too much space away.

After 20 years of trying, I am resorting to heatgun usage. Since I don't play enough to afford custom skates.

Has anyone tried punching digi comp material? Or is modern composite shells friendly to such method?

I am thinking of getting a pair of vapor3.7 8ee and punch it til it fits.

And why vapor, the heel locks the best in all skates I have tried.

You can punch digi comp just fine. 

[Vet88 674]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:30 AM, jmaister said:

Hello all. Another flatfooter with severe pronation here...

Read my post on pronation, do the ankle straighten drill on and off ice. Learn to balance properly over the skate blade by dropping eyelets over time. Straighten up your foot and a lot of those niggly fit issues begin to disappear.

And if you do want to punch / stretch your boots yourself I have posted in a previous DIY punching at home thread how to do it and the tools I have used.

[Sniper9 529]

Have you tried speed plates. It'll conform to your foot/arch and if you only pronate while taking strides and with weight bearing then the speed plates will support your arch in the position it's at when you're standing. But the speed plate 2.0 is softer than the 1.0 and may not provide as much support. Doesn't solve your issue but I found it did help me. Mind you my pronation is minimal and only on my right foot. 

[jmaister 4]

4 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Have you tried speed plates. It'll conform to your foot/arch and if you only pronate while taking strides and with weight bearing then the speed plates will support your arch in the position it's at when you're standing. But the speed plate 2.0 is softer than the 1.0 and may not provide as much support. Doesn't solve your issue but I found it did help me. Mind you my pronation is minimal and only on my right foot. 

speedplate not as popular in my LHS, I have to special order it. My right foot is the problematic one even when standing. so far I have punched the boot to... fit 4 dimensions i suppose. I have a felt roll sitting around I think I can try mimic the function of that, thx for the idea.

 

5 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Read my post on pronation, do the ankle straighten drill on and off ice. Learn to balance properly over the skate blade by dropping eyelets over time. Straighten up your foot and a lot of those niggly fit issues begin to disappear.

And if you do want to punch / stretch your boots yourself I have posted in a previous DIY punching at home thread how to do it and the tools I have used.

Long time fan of your post. Will review those thread again. My left is better because of those. just right foot...and getting old an fatter.

[Sniper9 529]

28 minutes ago, jmaister said:

speedplate not as popular in my LHS, I have to special order it. My right foot is the problematic one even when standing. so far I have punched the boot to... fit 4 dimensions i suppose. I have a felt roll sitting around I think I can try mimic the function of that, thx for the idea.

 

Long time fan of your post. Will review those thread again. My left is better because of those. just right foot...and getting old an fatter.

Orthotics?  Personally I'd consider orthotics or shimming the holders. And if you're serious about fixing the problem, doing the foot exercises to improve/reduce or even eliminate the pronation. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sniper9

[Vet88 674]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:28 AM, Sniper9 said:

Orthotics?  Personally I'd consider orthotics or shimming the holders. 

My problem with orthotics is - they don't work "properly" in ice skates. The reason is because there is no gfr (ground force reaction) available to support the orthotic at the sides of the boot. Therefore the boot has to be as close to a perfect fit as possible so it can provide the gfr needed for the orthotic to work. So in a simple one foot glide in a perfect fitting boot an orthotic can provide some assistance, there are a couple of studies by podiatrists working with figure skaters that prove this (the test subjects all had brand new custom fitted figure skates and the control drill was a one foot glide). Great if you are a figure skater but for hockey players, put some power thru the foot whilst deep on an edge and your orthotic is next to useless....  And shimming has the same issues, it just doesn't work when on an edge and under power.

[smcgreg 81]

6 hours ago, Vet88 said:

My problem with orthotics is - they don't work "properly" in ice skates. The reason is because there is no gfr (ground force reaction) available to support the orthotic at the sides of the boot. Therefore the boot has to be as close to a perfect fit as possible so it can provide the gfr needed for the orthotic to work. So in a simple one foot glide in a perfect fitting boot an orthotic can provide some assistance, there are a couple of studies by podiatrists working with figure skaters that prove this (the test subjects all had brand new custom fitted figure skates and the control drill was a one foot glide). Great if you are a figure skater but for hockey players, put some power thru the foot whilst deep on an edge and your orthotic is next to useless....  And shimming has the same issues, it just doesn't work when on an edge and under power.

A point I got tired of making years ago.  I wonder how many people have been made worse by inserts or orthotics and haven't realized it? 

In most cases, moving the blade is the only good fix.  (which presents a major problem in most modern skates)

Edited January 27, 2023 by smcgreg

[jmaister 4]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, Sniper9 said:

Orthotics?  Personally I'd consider orthotics or shimming the holders. And if you're serious about fixing the problem, doing the foot exercises to improve/reduce or even eliminate the pronation. 

I tried superfeet..no go... and then I recently added some padding to the stock footbed so i have lifted heel...

Result I could do T stop zomg... i may have underdeveloped heel bones.

 

and yes, i'm looking into varus/valgus option, but as you mentioned maybe its my right foot muscle thats not trained enough. will look into it.

[jmaister 4]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:07 AM, smcgreg said:

A point I got tired of making years ago.  I wonder how many people have been made worse by inserts or orthotics and haven't realized it? 

In most cases, moving the blade is the only good fix.  (which presents a major problem in most modern skates)

multi quote bugged so another post here.

 

Yes I have read orthotics doesnt really help since one would stop training their foot muscle. And blade alignment seem to be an issue retail skates doesnt address due to their mounting method(other than Graf, and high end only). Speed skating and street skating has exposure to this problem; different foot width, different centre of gravity. Bike fit has shoe fit session too, I wonder why Hockey hasnt got in depth like those sports.

thx for the input so far.

*after trying different insert on and off in the last oh.. i dont know how many years. The trick to compensate flat and pronated foot is to fix the heel. You cant jack up the arch above what the foot naturally has, and jacking up the arch isnt the solution. Since ligament is stretched, the workaround is straighten the heel bone with shimms/felt padding/custom foot post. The forefoot will do the rest after thats fixed.

Edited January 29, 2023 by jmaister

[Vet88 674]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:23 PM, jmaister said:

the workaround is straighten the heel bone with shimms/felt padding/custom foot post. The forefoot will do the rest after thats fixed.

This solution still depends primarily on the boot providing the support. You can do all the shimming / posting / fiddling around you like but if the boot doesn't provide the almost perfect fit, it's all basically useless when under power on an edge, If you are a skate fitter, this is the easy fix because it gets the person back on the ice with some improvement but long term I hate it because it hinders their development in the future.

The workaround is to straighten the heel bone yourself using your muscles, it isn't hard, it's one simple exercise. Then the forefoot will untwist and lie flat as long as you focus on keeping the ball of the foot on the floor. Then you can strengthen the arch because it's intrinsic strength is missing due to it's new alignment relative to the heel bone. A strong arch is critical to keeping the heel bone in neutral alignment when you are deep on an edge under power.

Now you have actually fixed your pronation (I don't say fixed your flat feet as flat feet on their own are not necessarily an issue) both on and off ice.

[jmaister 4]

1 hour ago, Vet88 said:

This solution still depends primarily on the boot providing the support. You can do all the shimming / posting / fiddling around you like but if the boot doesn't provide the almost perfect fit, it's all basically useless when under power on an edge, If you are a skate fitter, this is the easy fix because it gets the person back on the ice with some improvement but long term I hate it because it hinders their development in the future.

The workaround is to straighten the heel bone yourself using your muscles, it isn't hard, it's one simple exercise. Then the forefoot will untwist and lie flat as long as you focus on keeping the ball of the foot on the floor. Then you can strengthen the arch because it's intrinsic strength is missing due to it's new alignment relative to the heel bone. A strong arch is critical to keeping the heel bone in neutral alignment when you are deep on an edge under power.

Now you have actually fixed your pronation (I don't say fixed your flat feet as flat feet on their own are not necessarily an issue) both on and off ice.

very true, aid will only be effective if the foot is trained to work with it. I found my big toe and the arch still work very hard when skating. What a feeling tho, that flow.