Flat Bottom V for goalies

[Law Goalie 147]

As in shuffling? It's different, and requires some adjustment, but I noticed a significant improvement on FBV 100/50 over 7/16 ROH. It was an all-around improvement, though, obviously, most noticeable in gliding (T-pushes, C-cuts).

[Gwyren 0]

I am still not able to find a place down here which offers the cut.

[jimmy 194]

I've been testing the new 100/1 FBV on some local goalies and initial reports is that it's excellent. If you are one of those goalies who likes a 1/4-5/16" type of bite, then this FBV may be good for you. FWIW, Tim Thomas has this for the Olympics.

[docar15 1]

Did I understand correctly that for people like me who still use 2" hollow on their goalie skates, FBV will be an equivalent of going down to sub 1" feel? Does not sound like its something I want to try. I probably missed soemthing (again).

[jimmy 194]

They do make FBV's now that have very little bite but this really doesn't make any sense for a goalie who's on a 2" hollow to use it, just stay with the 2". There is absolutely nothing to gain by going to a FBV.

[goalieboy29 0]

FWIW, Tim Thomas has this for the Olympics.

Yeah, I heard FBV makes it MUCH more comfortable for Thomas to sit on the bench and watch Miller play all the games....

Sounds like it might be time to give this new technology a try.

[Oykib 0]

Yeah, I heard FBV makes it MUCH more comfortable for Thomas to sit on the bench and watch Miller play all the games....

Sounds like it might be time to give this new technology a try.

Someone sounds bitter

[Law Goalie 147]

Haha - he's just bitter because Wellsie benched him during the last clinic shootout. :)

Then he got him back by getting pictures of Gloria in the shower.

(Flagged for excessive levels of Toronto goaltending inside jokes.)

Back on topic...

Jimmy, just to be clear, the 100/1 FBV (1/4 to 5/16 ROH equivalent) that Thomas and your guys are demoing could also be called 100/100, right?-- that is,the flat is 100 wide, and the edges are 100 long?

Is Blackstone still planning to put out the wider 115/Y shape that JR mentioned earlier?

[jimmy 194]

I'm so dissapointed that when I woke up this morning, Thomas hadn't been traded immediately after closing ceremonies.

But I digress, Steve at Blackstone (the other Steve), told me TT was using the 100/1. This may be the same as the 100/100, just that they dropped the last 2 zeros.

[chiefs17 2]

I put my 10 year old son on the 100/50 last night, but didn't tell him. He normally uses 1/2" ROH. I asked him how his edges were and he said "good" (normal response for him), then I asked him if he felt faster and he said "YES!" It was like he knew there was something different that made him faster but since he didn't know what I did to his blades, he couldn't figure out why. Once I told him what I did, it all made sense. He said he was flying out there during the skating drills. I didn't get a chance to see him shuffle and T push, etc. But if he didn't like the edge he would have said something so I'm assuming it's fine. I'll check him out more at tomorrow's practice.

I only wish I switched him sooner, but I thought the 100/50 was going to have too much bite. The only bad part is I had to do his skates again right after practice, one edge was gone, he must have hit a post or something. I'm not sure if the 1/2" ROH would have held up to that either, but the FBV is definitely a delicate edge. Something I already knew from my use with it as a player.

[Law Goalie 147]

Oddly, I've had exactly the opposite experience. My 100/50 FBV edges have been much more durable than my 7/16 ROH edges.

Part of that may be that I use Edge Protech rubber post-protectors in pick-up and in practise (a staple of NHL teams as well - can't recommend highly enough), that I don't tend to ding my skates off the post much, and that I'm using the relatively dauntless RBK steel. I will say that the edge has been much more consistent; with ROH, I felt like I lost a slight degree of 'sharpness' every 4h on the ice or so, and with FBV it's been pretty much unchanged.

Shuffling is, IME, more or less unchanged in total effectiveness (though there is a little technical adjustment), but there is a huge improvement in C-cuts and T-pushes: there's zero resistance in the glide phase of the C-cut and to the frontside skate through the T-push.

[chiefs17 2]

Well I asked my kid about the edges again and he said they were great. I think some of it has to do with the fact that he was not entirely happy with 1/2" ROH. He always said they felt too sharp right after I sharpened them, so I probably should have had him on a 5/8", but I don't have that spinner for my X-01. Just for info, his skates are Bauer XIX or something along those lines, I can't remember, but they don't have stainless blades. They have some cheap chrome plating on top of carbon steel. Lot's of sparks when they hit the wheel!

[OmegaGoalie 9]

I've been using the FBV for three weeks now and it's still holding a pretty crisp edge despite how many times they've been kicked against posts :P

Prior to trying the FBV I used a 5/16" cut so I was a bit apprehensive about the 100/75 being compared to 3/8" as 3/8" feel like dull skates to me. First timeout the were weird, but extraordinarily smooth and precise. Forward motion was effortless as was backwards and skating in general. I found shuffling to feel awkward as it felt like I had no blade on the ice and was going to wipe out until I finished my movement with a surprising bite to stop myself. My feet were really sore from the lack of bite feeling and working twice as hard unnecessarily but by my second time my feet had adjusted. Holding my stance is a dream with the FBV. Not that I had an issue before hand, however there seems to be a better balance and bite with the FBV so when I'm low and wide ( as I always am ) in my stance its like sitting on my couch watching the Rangers lose yet again...

Butterfly pushes are AWESOME with the FBV there is so much bite even chewed up they bite fiercely. Recovering is also aided as now I don't have to "roll" onto my edge as I had to with the traditional sharpening method ( Yes I can feel that ) with the FBV the flatness puts you right on the edge and off you go. Overall I recommend them to every goalie out there, it is superior to convention sharpening in just about every way. My only personal complaint is that the 100/75 just isn't sharp enough for me but it seems to last longer so that may be the trade off :)

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I think the situation is that since deeper hollows have longer edges, since they aren't as pronounced on FBV, that's why it is lasting longer. But I'm sure someone posted that already.

*ducks out of the goalie discussion board

[OmegaGoalie 9]

I think the situation is that since deeper hollows have longer edges, since they aren't as pronounced on FBV, that's why it is lasting longer. But I'm sure someone posted that already.

*ducks out of the goalie discussion board

Those were my thoughts as well :) Bottom line is I'm only using FBV from now on.

[Law Goalie 147]

Ditto, Omega. It sounds like the 100/100 cut jimmy mentioned may give you that extra bite you're looking for.

I also agree that shuffling is by far the biggest adjustment. The nature of the FBV edge is, to my mind, almost like a binary switch: you're on it or off it, in contrast to the 'rolling' we both notice with a traditional ROH. Once you can find the FBV edge reliably, everything improves.

I switched back to a set of blades sharpened on ROH, and it was like running in mud.

I still think, however, that FBV won't get its greatest showcase until the new Bauer cowlings come out.

[OmegaGoalie 9]

I still think, however, that FBV won't get its greatest showcase until the new Bauer cowlings come out.

Agreed. I feel like I've been waiting 5 years for the damn 100 skates to become available :P

[Law Goalie 147]

Couple of quick updates, based on the MSH skate.

Blackstone did confirm that the 100/1 and the 105/75 are now available; the only caveat was that it doesn't fit in the portable machines they had at the skate, so I couldn't try it. Having been on 100/50 for a while, I experimented with 90/50 on one of my pairs of RBK blades. I then held up the game until I could switch back. The edges were there, but I found the bite-angle extremely hard to use in any butterfly movement.

I'm just about convinced that 100/50 is a perfect sharpening for me. As I've adapted to the bite-angle, I've found my shuffling greatly improved. It's all about finding that 'sweet spot' or magic angle at which the lateral resistance vanishes. With ROH, the profile of the blade offers a linear resistance to the ice; the FBV, if you get your leg and blade at the right angle, you're effectively shuffling on a flat-cut (ie. zero resistance) with the lead skate, while pushing with an extremely strong edge on the backside skate.

I'll certainly give 105/75 and 100/1 a shot when they show up in Toronto, but I suspect I'll find them way too edgy.

[jcp2 2]

Couple of quick updates, based on the MSH skate.

Blackstone did confirm that the 100/1 and the 105/75 are now available; the only caveat was that it doesn't fit in the portable machines they had at the skate, so I couldn't try it. Having been on 100/50 for a while, I experimented with 90/50 on one of my pairs of RBK blades. I then held up the game until I could switch back. The edges were there, but I found the bite-angle extremely hard to use in any butterfly movement.

I'm just about convinced that 100/50 is a perfect sharpening for me. As I've adapted to the bite-angle, I've found my shuffling greatly improved. It's all about finding that 'sweet spot' or magic angle at which the lateral resistance vanishes. With ROH, the profile of the blade offers a linear resistance to the ice; the FBV, if you get your leg and blade at the right angle, you're effectively shuffling on a flat-cut (ie. zero resistance) with the lead skate, while pushing with an extremely strong edge on the backside skate.

I'll certainly give 105/75 and 100/1 a shot when they show up in Toronto, but I suspect I'll find them way too edgy.

Have you given the Z-channel a thought? I tried out the equivalent to 100/50 on my player skates and found them to have a lot of grip when pressured at an angle, but very slippery laterally when vertical without a lot of force. The transition between slip and grip was very smooth, unlike FBV, but there was a lot of grip. This was before I decided to try goalie, but the thought in my mind at that time was that this would be great for goalies.

[Law Goalie 147]

I might, but I don't know of a single place that offers it here in Toronto, and there's nothing in their literature to suggest how it would scale on a wider blade.

My other major concern is geometrical. Goalies rarely (if ever) have their legs vertical (that is, perpendicular to the ice), and I would go so far as to say they *should not* when they're shuffling. The whole point of the shuffle is to allow lateral movement with negligible disruption to the stance, and no modern stance uses a vertical leg orientation.

In fact, the only position in which a modern goalie is likely to find his skate-blade perpendicular to the ice is in the VH (or split-knee) position -- and in that position, the goalie wants a high bite-angle so he can push off laterally.

For those two reasons, I don't think Z-channel is a good idea for goalies, at least insofar as it's been explained.

The beauty of FBV for goalies is that it really has three flats: one large flat along the bottom, and two smaller angled flats on the sides. With 90/50, their angle was so close to the angle of my blades in my stance and in a typical butterfly push that there was very little resistance to lateral slip (ie. a shuffling movement). With 100/50, I've got enough bite to hold a solid stance and get good power in any direction, but a little shift lets me rest the lead leg on (or close to) the flat of the inside edge and slide across it.