Radien55

I have skated in Supremes and Vapors, mainly the latter. I have good acceleration and agility, my strides are short to medium length so I'm good from zero to medium speed, above that my game really suffers, I feel a lack of confidence and stability (although my new AS-V seems to help here, better fit and stiffness, less wobbly). I play in recreational league for ex-players. I am in size 9 skates with 280mm runners. I use single 10' and I like it, but I want just a little more contact patch to aid grip, speed and stability, without hindering lateral mobility too much. I have skated a lot in Detroit 10-20 and while I liked the speed, and stability on crossovers, I felt flat footed, immobile and the extra steel really hindered lateral moves. I want something between the two (maybe closer to the 10'), that adds speed, stability on crossovers and can also handle lateral direction changes. I skate backwards a lot so many pivots forwards to backwards need to be accounted for, hence why I am looking at the Quad or similar, over a Zuperior or 13' which might feel too long. The Quad 0-1 shave off way too much steel for my liking, seems like it would lead to short and choppy strides as you run out of steel on the toe to push off with. The 10/13 seems good in that it doesn't have a shaved toe, so it's familiar territory. The Quad II shaves off the least amount of steel, which is why I am looking at that one, despite being in a size smaller runners than it is recommended for. Does the 7' toe make it less stable to skate backwards? I also worry that the 16' in the rear might be too much and close to the Detroit feeling. I want to get a pitched profile for the Tacks so I can change easily change from neutral to pitched (and back) with a simple blade change. A non-pitched profile for the Vapors or they will be too much on the toes.

Has anyone here skated on both? Is there a big difference? I registered here recently, but I have been reading the forums for a couple of years, especially everything regarding the Prosharp project. Fascinating reading I must say! The 10/13 combo profile is rarely mentioned and I could not find anyone here or elsewhere that talked about skating on it. Combo: --10-13--- QUAD II: 7-10-13-16 Combo 10/13 is 10 in front and 13 in the rear, while the main and middle portion of a Quad 2 is 10 and 13. According to illustrations of the Quad, I think the 13 part starts before the middle of the blade, so a little earlier than a combo profile where it starts in the middle of the blade. Other than that, they are on paper very similar on the main part of the blade. Theoretically, if you profile a 10/13 to the same pitch as the Quad, they "should" feel very similar, but without the shaved toe and extra steel in the rear. The 10/13 combo seems like a great compromise, the speed and glide of a 13' without the agility penalty. However the lack of popularity has me wondering. There are very few people talking about it and most shops don't even have the template. I'm curious if there is anyone that has skated on it, or both profiles, that could share their opinion on it and maybe the differences between the two?

Wow! Please do tell more. I know people love the FT6 series, but if a a Mach makes you long for the FT690, that's quite concerning. As I understand it, it's a dressed up FT680, so even with the extra features, the stiffness is not upgraded, (165). Bauer doesn't have a stiffness rating but the Mach is in the ballpark of the FT6 and AS-V, (180-190), so it should be significantly stiffer than the FT690. Tell us what you liked more on the FT690.

That has been my belief too. I think the pitch of the boot, the blade and the profile makes the biggest difference to my skating. Being pitched on the toes helps acceleration during those first few steps. A single 9' or 10' allows for a lot of lateral moves while it is a bit sluggish speed-wise. A 13' has more speed but can give the feeling of being on skis, making it more difficult to change direction. etc etc. I think I will be able to skate just as "agile" in the AS-Vs as the Vapors if I manage to replicate the pitch.

I started dropping an eyelet in the Vapors, they need it as the boot is so tall, it locks your leg in place and doesn't allow for much forward flex. I was so slow and immobile when they were laced all the way up, so I'm continuing this habit in the Tacks, even though it is a much shorter boot. The top eyelet on the AS-V is level with the second from the top on the Vapors (the one I use). When I drop an eyelet in the Tacks, that's the equivalent of the third eyelet on the Vapors. It's crazy but it works because the boot is so stiff, I love it.

I skated in them again today and I have to say they are amazing skates, the fit is really good. I didn't have the same problem getting on my edges so maybe I've already adjusted or I had an "off" day last time. The skates still have certain characteristics though, which makes them like and dislike certain movements. The marketing is kind of true, but I am not sure if it is because of the skate or the pitch. If I judge them as they are, the Tacks want you to skate a certain way and it rewards that. Long strides, crossovers in wide turns with speed, straight forward or backwards with speed, they are very fast, speed is the keyword for these skates. If I try to skate like I do with the Vapors; many fast but short crossovers in rapid succession, it doesn't like it and it feels like I'm working against the skate. The steel at the toe is like going up a hill, it does not flow thru the motion as well as the Vapors. The skate is not ready to go up on the toe after a short stride, it begs you to take longer strides. When you have taken a long stride, the skate is ready and it flows through the motion smoothly, rockering from heel to toe. Upon further thinking. I attribute this to the pitch of the boot and the angle it creates between your legs and feet. My weight is more on the middle of the blade, (in a neutral and in a upright position) and in the Vapors my weight is in front of the middle of the blade. The latter makes the skate "ready" for rockering through the toe after a shorter stride. I think I can profile (suggestions are welcome) an extra set of steel for the Tacks, to have more pitch and allow those movements. The pitch is something I can experience, but how much the actual boot contributes to "agility" vs "power" I cannot tell. As they come, the Tacks are better at medium to top speed (long strides, stability, wide turns) while the Vapors are better from a stand still to medium speed (acceleration, short strides, quick moving feet). I have test fitted many models the last month and the AS-V and AS-V Pro stand out above the rest. I really like the AS-Vs and they skate really well. I will be keeping them and invest in some extra steel to experiment with. Don't get me wrong, they skate really well with the standard 10' profile too, for what they are meant for, so I will keep the stock blades as they are and have an extra set with more pitch to change things up. EDIT: I skated for an hour in the Tacks then directly switched to the Vapors for another 45min, to have a direct and fresh comparison with no other variables changing.

Aha I see. From reading comments, I got the impression that these profiles significantly put you on your toes and I was afraid it would become too much if the skate was already pitched. Perhaps it is not that bad.

I would love to see a scientific test proving that, but I doubt that little amount of material makes or breaks the holder.

I love this! Bauer clearly put that block in the channel to prevent people from using their old steel. There is no need for a bevel on the blades, there is no bevel on CCM Step steel. It's nice to see people found a workaround so all their old steel won't go to waste.

I read that they have the pivot point moved back 20mm on Quad and Zuperior profiles. In neutral skates, I would like it, but if you are in a boot that is already pitched, like Vapors, it might become too much. Is it possible to remove the PP/Pitch from a Quad or Zuperior Profile, or should player in Vapors look at other profiling alternatives? If it is possible to profile them neutral. How is it done, what instructions should the tech follow?

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has experienced this. That's a relief! I will give them another chance and try them again later in the week, see if I can get used to them, before doing anything drastic.

It's a special edition model, only select stores have it. They take a lower price point and upgrade it with some features from the top models. The FT690 is a mix of the FT680 and the FT6 models: The boot and holder is FT680, the liner and steel is from the FT6, and the tongue from the FT6 Pro. Seems like a great value skate, did you buy it already?

I normally skate in Vapor 3X. I recently found a pair of Tacks AS-V on sale and had to try. The fit is perfect, they are wide-ish in the forefoot despite being the regular size. I also tried Jetspeed FT670 in 9R and they fit very good too. It seems CCM is more consistent with sizing across the models than Bauer, because I could not fit in the 9 fit 2, M5 Pro (it was short and narrow), while the X5 Pro fit much better. Both my Vapors and Tacks AS-V have 280mm runners (LS3 and Step Steel) with a 10' profile, sharpened to 7/8". To the test Tacks are usually describes as stiff, maybe rigid is a better word. There is nothing to dampen the impacts, it's hard vs hard and they translate everything you do directly into the ice. This was a wow sensation from the first steps on the ice, immediately noticeable. The feeling is a bit harsh, you can tell they are performance focused over comfort, which is great if you have a serious NHL (read: Sunday night beer league) game coming up, maybe not if you are looking for max comfort. Skating wise I struggled though. These put you in a very lazy stance, upright and on the heels. You can't fix that by going into a good forward lean because it creates an awkward angle between your foot, ankle and shin. I like the single 10' profile on my Vapors, but on the Tacks it felt like there is too much steel in the toe, it feels like going up a hill when you rocker through the toe. I think it is because I'm so much on my heels, it felt like I was digging out of a hole. Between that and the lack of pitch, creating an awkward angle from foot to shin, I felt like the wrong part of the blade was in contact with the ice throughout the movement. It just felt a little bit "off" the whole time and this gave me less confidence in my edges. They also felt reluctant to turn. When doing crossovers, I couldn't get the same aggressive angle on the outside edge to the ice, it was more upright than intended. It was as if they didn't like edge work. Is this a thing, does the stiffness cause this, or is it just because I'm not used to them and my mechanics are all off? When I skated in Supremes (S27), there was a difference, but not this extreme. I could still skate pretty well in them, compared to the Tacks. The positive side is that the fit is amazing, there is no negative space in them and they are wide enough in front, while still providing incredible heel lock. It's one of the best fitting skates I've tried on, which is why I bought them. I'm debating if I should keep these or change for the same tier of Vapor, or maybe Jetspeed. Q1: Are FT6s equally on the heels or are they more pitched forward? Q2: If I am going to continue with these. I definitely need to profile some pitch into them. Does anyone know what amount of pitch or what profile would get them close to the Vapors? Q3: Would it be worth it to try to fix these with profiling or would it be better to change them for Vapors or Jetspeeds?