"Aggressive hockey"

[Tricky4L 0]

So it's no secrect that some people are not huge fans of fighting in hockey, and their position is totally justifiable. But to those people who say that fighters have no role in hockey I ask you this, what about those who play nothing but the physcial role in hockey? If a player goes out every shift doing nothing but hitting everything that moves, stirring the emotions of both their team and the other team, and occasionally fighting while their "hockey skills" leave a lot to be desired (hands o' cement)... would you also say that they have no place in the sport?

[Chadd 916]

I hate seeing players with offensive skills being stuck in the minors while players who can't score are in the NHL simply because they hit and fight. The whole point is to score more goals than the other team, having guys who aren't as good at scoring seems contradictory.

[Edge 0]

^I agree. Peter Worrell can hardly skate and he's in the league because he's big and nasty.

I caught myself wanting to see a fight at a lacrosse game last night. I think a fight or so in the game is okay, but it's ridiculous when that's the only aspect of the game people like.

[Chadd 916]

Just to clarify, I don't want to see hitting and fighting removed from the game. I just want to see the talented players stand up for themselves and be aggressive. Players like Cam Neely or Iginla or Guerin or Joe Thornton or Mess in his prime who score, hit and fight are what makes the NHL so great.

[LkptTiger 1]

I hate seeing players with offensive skills being stuck in the minors while players who can't score are in the NHL simply because they hit and fight.

...as one of those "players with offensive skills" that may or may not have the opportunity to play at that level within the next few years after high school and juniors, I have just one thing to say: "It's part of the game." In such an intensely physical sport like hockey, a team can always use one or two guys who can, when need be, step onto the ice and get something going. Over the past few years as I have moved through the Bantam and Midget AAA ranks, I have learned that emotion plays quite a large roll in each and every single game. Having a few boys who can provide that emotional boost for his entire team by delivering a vicious check or maybe starting a little "somethin'-somethin'" infront of the net or in the corner is almost, maybe just as, important as having a few guys who can put the puck in the net consistantly.

Hypothetical question: Would you guys feel sorry for a shortstop batting .400 in AAA ball because there is a catcher playing in the Bigs struggling to hit .200?

As far as I can see, the question I just asked you is essencially the same one being debated in this topic. Maybe I'm way off base, though.

[Chadd 916]

I hate seeing players with offensive skills being stuck in the minors while players who can't score are in the NHL simply because they hit and fight.

...as one of those "players with offensive skills" that may or may not have the opportunity to play at that level within the next few years after high school and juniors, I have just one thing to say: "It's part of the game." In such an intensely physical sport like hockey, a team can always use one or two guys who can, when need be, step onto the ice and get something going. Over the past few years as I have moved through the Bantam and Midget AAA ranks, I have learned that emotion plays quite a large roll in each and every single game. Having a few boys who can provide that emotional boost for his entire team by delivering a vicious check or maybe starting a little "somethin'-somethin'" infront of the net or in the corner is almost, maybe just as, important as having a few guys who can put the puck in the net consistantly.

Hypothetical question: Would you guys feel sorry for a shortstop batting .400 in AAA ball because there is a catcher playing in the Bigs struggling to hit .200?

As far as I can see, the question I just asked you is essencially the same one being debated in this topic. Maybe I'm way off base, though.

My question is simple;

Why do the skill players think it should be the job of another guy to go out and create that momentum? Why not take that responsibility on their own shoulders?

I don't think roles should be so narrowly defined in hockey. Due to the the fact that there are so many "incomplete" players that requires a team to roster a couple knuckle draggers to balance out the team. Not every player has to be a Gordie Howe, but it would be nice to see players take care of themselves.

[headonaswivel 1]

Exactly. Every player regardless of role on the squad should be able to mix it up. As a skill guy you just have to remember to not look for the hits, but finish them when they are there.

[chippa13 1844]

My question is simple;

Why do the skill players think it should be the job of another guy to go out and create that momentum? Why not take that responsibility on their own shoulders?

I don't think roles should be so narrowly defined in hockey. Due to the the fact that there are so many "incomplete" players that requires a team to roster a couple knuckle draggers to balance out the team. Not every player has to be a Gordie Howe, but it would be nice to see players take care of themselves.

The roles became so defined in response to the state of the game. In today's NHL teams don't want their stars sitting for 5-10 minutes because they took care of themselves. Also, because a lot of the fighting has been legislated out of the game there are more smallish guys in the league and you don't want them trying to go toe to toe with a 6-5 235 defenseman. Not to mention that the instigator rule has taken away a lot of a player's ability to take care of themselves.

[Chadd 916]

That's a cop out about the instigator rule and not true. 90% of the time a ref uses that call, it's because a guy just starts throwing haymakers out of the blue and it's usually a goon who wouldn't be on the ice if he couldn't fight. If you got tagged by a marginal hit and you dropped the gloves right away, very seldom would you get an instigator.

I have no problem with line brawls and bench clearing fights being legislated out of the game. That stuff is a sideshow that slows down the game. It's also a good way to take skill out of the game.

[chippa13 1844]

That's a cop out about the instigator rule and not true. 90% of the time a ref uses that call, it's because a guy just starts throwing haymakers out of the blue and it's usually a goon who wouldn't be on the ice if he couldn't fight. If you got tagged by a marginal hit and you dropped the gloves right away, very seldom would you get an instigator.

I have no problem with line brawls and bench clearing fights being legislated out of the game. That stuff is a sideshow that slows down the game. It's also a good way to take skill out of the game.

Actually, if you look at where most of the instigator penalties are called, they result from a player taking issue with a hit and retaliating after the guy that hit him or one of his linemates taking issue and dealing justice, usually immediately following the hit.

[Chadd 916]

That's a cop out about the instigator rule and not true. 90% of the time a ref uses that call, it's because a guy just starts throwing haymakers out of the blue and it's usually a goon who wouldn't be on the ice if he couldn't fight. If you got tagged by a marginal hit and you dropped the gloves right away, very seldom would you get an instigator.

I have no problem with line brawls and bench clearing fights being legislated out of the game. That stuff is a sideshow that slows down the game. It's also a good way to take skill out of the game.

Actually, if you look at where most of the instigator penalties are called, they result from a player taking issue with a hit and retaliating after the guy that hit him or one of his linemates taking issue and dealing justice, usually immediately following the hit.

I've seen very few calls on the guy who got hit retaliating unless he went apeshit. Now some other guy getting involved, I've seen it and agree because they usually just start throwing before the other guy has a chance to react. I'm just not in favor of giving meatheads the right to jump anyone they please.

[mickz 107]

I agree with with most of your points given in this thread. However some teams just find it necessary to have a 'goon' or 'enforcer' on their roster to protect their star players.

[Tanner23 0]

Props to all the guys who play like that ive seen how hard a grinder works

[ultraman7k 0]

well i remember the 'dark days' of the canucks when you wouldn't miss a game without seeing donald brashear kick someone's butt with his piano hands and unclassly dust em off.

that was almost a given when the canucks were losing (which was a lot back then), and after the butt whupping, you'd see the canucks get all riled up and get some chances if not score a goal but still lose the game. *sigh*

so in essence a fight or a hit does have the ability to change the momentum of the game, but i mean there's a time and a place for it, after all, you do have guys skating around the ice with tempers flairing at sometimes with a piece of lumber in their hands, which can be a dangerous weapon, so you do need to release some of that anger.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I think the question is being misinterpreted. It's not so much guy like Brashier or designated fighter, more so guys like Steve Webb. Who refuse to drop the gloves, but run around stirring the pot. They can't finish, but the run around all the time. If need be they will fight, but it is not their intent. More so the grinders who aren't out there to fight everynight. I am thinking Corson in his last few years. At least thats how I interpreted it.

[biff44 0]

I have seen it a number of times in Juniors. One team is snoozing, then a fight breaks out. After that, the team is wide awake and scoring. Their guy didn't even have to win the fight, just survive for long enough to get them riled up.