Conditioning not so important in hockey...

[Speed Demon 0]

Hey Calves, you're absolutely right, but to those who want the extra edge, these will work.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Are you planning to take caffein pills in order to gain weight?

[Jason Harris 31]

SpeedDemon,

Are you suggesting your five weeks of research and deployment is somehow more thorough than those of us who have been doing it for years?

It's quite likely your research is more intense in the past five weeks than most of us, but highly doubtful that is adds up to a deeper undertanding than those of us who have studied it recurringly for five, ten, twenty or even forty-five years in the case of a good friend of mine who's still a intense gym rat at sixty-eight. What is beyond doubt is how your five weeks of deployment compares to those of us who have been in the gym working out intensely for years.

Believe me, I'm glad you've begun a program of exercise and nutrition, and I hope you do well. It sounds like I have a few years on you, so if there's one bit of advice I'd pass along it's realize that, unfortunately, this has to be a lifelong commitment -- but the benefits are great. It's something I conveyed to my wife who finally started exercising after years of badgering. I told her that she thinks of me as being healthy and fit, but if I stopped exercising for a year staight, it would be as though I had never started.

Best of wishes towards your training.

[Bruin88 0]

conditioning is probably THE most important part of hockey ,its great if you have good hands ,a good head on your shoulders and good speed ,but if your full potential only lasts a period then its useless

[Speed Demon 0]

Are you planning to take caffein pills in order to gain weight?

You didn't see it but I said I don't take them read what I say.

[Speed Demon 0]

Be careful with creatine...It is proven, and is found in meat, chicken, and fish natually along with being made in your liver and kidneys. But long term data on the substance in it's monohydrate form (pills, powder) is lacking big time.

Bodybuilding.com is probably a biased source, BTW. I will have to check the site out, but chances are that in the end they want people to be buying this crap from GMC to help support the industry, which in turns supports them.

Creatine Monohydrate has been used for ages and is perfectly safe, I am not about go and pull some studies out to prove it. I will cycle it 2 months on, 1 month off but to tell you the truth, this is believed to be unnecessary. The main reason people do this is because, as you said, it is made by the body and like all supplements, you don't want to take things for a long period of time that are exogenous (come from an outside source) when your body makes them internally. Studies have shown that it isn't necessary to cycle off but I was advised to just incase.

BB.com is not a biased source, and will not attempt to sell you any products. When contacting their customer service about which product they recommend, they will tell you go to on their forums and talk to users. GNC is a piece of crap.

[Cavs019 710]

I know a ton of people that have had kidney stones as a result of creatine. But by all means waste your money. A study was done on suplementation of two professional basketball players of similar build and athleticism. One was on a protein/creatine supplemented diet, the other was not. The "edge" you speak of was somewhere along the lines of .03% improvement with the suplements.

[Speed Demon 0]

SpeedDemon,

Are you suggesting your five weeks of research and deployment is somehow more thorough than those of us who have been doing it for years?

It's quite likely your research is more intense in the past five weeks than most of us, but highly doubtful that is adds up to a deeper undertanding than those of us who have studied it recurringly for five, ten, twenty or even forty-five years in the case of a good friend of mine who's still a intense gym rat at sixty-eight. What is beyond doubt is how your five weeks of deployment compares to those of us who have been in the gym working out intensely for years.

Believe me, I'm glad you've begun a program of exercise and nutrition, and I hope you do well. It sounds like I have a few years on you, so if there's one bit of advice I'd pass along it's realize that, unfortunately, this has to be a lifelong commitment -- but the benefits are great. It's something I conveyed to my wife who finally started exercising after years of badgering. I told her that she thinks of me as being healthy and fit, but if I stopped exercising for a year staight, it would be as though I had never started.

Best of wishes towards your training.

Thanks for the kind words.

You will learn a lot more about bodybuilding outside of the gym rather than inside the gym. It is mind over muscle. I am not going to sit here and debate who knows more but if you feel you do that is fine.

I am all about dedication, determination and commitment.

I cannot argue on a hockey forum about bodybuilding where I will be outnumbered by hockey players. I need to argue on a bodybuilding forum where I can have people back me up.

So, anyways, one last time, go learn about nutrition if you want to be of the best. Learn how to manipulate the most anabolic hormone in your body, insulin, and you can put on some serious muscle this summer.

[Cavs019 710]

Exactly, because your attempting to body build, not condition, which is completely irrelevant to the initial topic and the interests of almost everyone on this board.

[AtlantaThrashers01 0]

body building is conditioning in my view....i use creatine and i can feel it work, ur muscles feel like there contracting while lifting weights or w,e

[Cavs019 710]

Awesome, your taking this "muscle contractor," yet you don't even know what it does.

[Speed Demon 0]

I know a ton of people that have had kidney stones as a result of creatine. But by all means waste your money. A study was done on suplementation of two professional basketball players of similar build and athleticism. One was on a protein/creatine supplemented diet, the other was not. The "edge" you speak of was somewhere along the lines of .03% improvement with the suplements.

Creatine is hard on the kidneys. I guess the people weren't drinking enough water. Well I drink 8-11 L of water per day so no worries there.

You should give me that study so I can make fun of it.

There are countless studies that have proven creatine to give you this "edge" I speak of.

I suggest all you hockey players read this study:

Oral creatine supplementation improves multiple sprint performance in elite ice-hockey players.

BACKGROUND: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral creatine monohydrate supplementation on multiple sprint cycle and skating performance in ice-hockey players. METHODS: Participants: sixteen elite ice-hockey players were selected as subjects. Experimental design: subjects were randomly assigned to either a creatine (Cr) (n = 8) or a placebo (P) group (n = 8) in a double blind design. After familiarization and baseline tests, subjects loaded with 5 g of creatine monohydrate or placebo (glucose) four times per day for 5 days, after which a maintenance dose of 5 g per day for 10 weeks was administered. At baseline, and after 10 days and 10 weeks of supplementation, subjects performed i) a cycle test involving 5 all-out sprints of 15 sec duration separated by 15 sec recovery with the resistance set at 0.075 body mass (kg), and ii) 6 timed 80-m skating sprints with the sprints initiated every 30 sec and a split time taken at 47 m. RESULTS: A two-way ANOVA demonstrated no significant change in any of the variables in the P group over the period of study. However, in the Cr group, average mean power output over the 5 sprints was significantly higher at 10 days (1074 +/- 241 W) and 10 weeks (1025 +/- 216 W) than at baseline (890 +/- 172 W), (p < 0.01). Average peak power output over the 5 sprints improved significantly from baseline (1294 +/- 311 W) to 10 days (1572 +/- 463 W), (p < 0.01). Average on-ice sprint performance to 47 m was significantly faster at 10 days (6.88 +/- 0.21 sec) and 10 weeks (6.96 +/- 0.19 sec) than at baseline (7.17 +/- 0.27 sec), (p < 0.005). CONCLUSIONS: This study demonstrates that creatine supplementation has an ergogenic effect in elite ice-hockey players.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3659&query_hl=3

"CONCLUSION: The addition of creatine to the glucose/taurine/electrolyte supplement promoted greater gains in fat/bone-free mass, isotonic lifting volume, and sprint performance during intense resistance/agility training."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...5647&query_hl=3

[Speed Demon 0]

Exactly, because your attempting to body build, not condition, which is completely irrelevant to the initial topic and the interests of almost everyone on this board.

The human body is the human body. Nutrition is nutrition, and there are tons of variations that you can apply to your nutrition to help fit your goal.

If you want to be in the best CONDITION of your life, then get nutrition in check.

Supplementation will give you that edge.

[Speed Demon 0]

Awesome, your taking this "muscle contractor," yet you don't even know what it does.

lol, do you?

Obviously you don't because of that little comment you made there, talking about wasting money.

[Cavs019 710]

I'm done arguing, as no ones opinion is going to be changed here. That comment wasn't directed towards you. In your expertise, isn't the fact that someone is taking a supplement but ends their sentence with "or w.e." a little frightening? I know if i was putting something into my body I would want to know exactly what its doing

[Speed Demon 0]

I'm done arguing, as no ones opinion is going to be changed here. That comment wasn't directed towards you. In your expertise, isn't the fact that someone is taking a supplement but ends their sentence with "or w.e." a little frightening? I know if i was putting something into my body I would want to know exactly what its doing

Absolutely, that is why I research anything before I put it into my body. I will actually look up every ingredient on a supplement and see if it has any side effects/any negatives.

I will explain creatine in a nut shell:

Creatine will help volumize your muscle cells by causing water retention within the muscle (drags water right into the muscle cells to volumize them). This will in turn send a signal to the muscle that it is okay to grow as there is more room due to the increased volume. It also increases strength, power, provides energy to the muscles and will help the body rid of lactic acid. Also can help prevent mental fatigue.

Since I am too lazy to explain the strength and power part, here is a simple little quote,

"When you consume creatine, it combines with phosphate in your body to create phosphocreatine, which in turn is stored in your muscle cells, waiting to be called upon for energy. When your muscles are exposed to short but intense exercise (0-30 seconds), you call upon your alactic system (otherwise known as phosphogen, or ATP-PC system) to complete the work. When you expose your muscles to this short, intense exercise, your muscles require a chemical energy called ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate), the quickest and best source of energy for your muscles.(6) Unfortunately, ATP is in very short supply in your muscles.(7) When you run out of ATP, you run out of gas. This is where creatine comes in.

When your body uses ATP for energy, it creates a by-product called ADP (Adenosine Diphosphate), which is useless to our body. Fortunately, the phosphocreatine stored in your muscles allows your body to convert the ADP back into ATP and be used for energy.(6,7) So, to make a long story short, by increasing the amount of creatine you consume, you increase the amount of phosphocreatine in your muscles, which elevates the amount of ATP you have available for muscular energy. The increased level of ATP, in turn, allows you to increase your workload and sustain it over a longer period of time. (6,8)"

The point is that creatine works and anyone that tells you it doesn't, tell them to go and learn about it. However, there are people called "creatine non-responders" because all of the creatine is not making it to their muscles. So that is why scientists made creatine ethyl ester where this creatine can make it to your muscles better, which results in needing even less to do the same job as creatine monohydrate.

[hockeydude_49 0]

With all this arguing this is starting to look like the easton message board.....lol

[Speed Demon 0]

Speed- Judging on your attitude, I would venture to say you are pumping something into your body already.'

Back on to Creatine- Creatine is not proven to be safe long term. Don't come out with an assinine statement saying that it's perfectly fine. Some studies have found gains with it, but most of everywhere you read will comment that the long term effects of creatine are not yet founded. I actually have 3 sources written by professionals withen 5 ft that say that.

Wellness- Concepts and applications- Nothing to do with hockey

Complete conditioning for Ice hockey

Total hockey conditioning

I have to say I do have a problem with your attitude with some of the members. Just a question...If you don't play hockey anymore and are talking about pure body building which is not hockey specific, why are you here?

You say- If you want to be in the best shape of your life, get your conditioning in check. Ha, meanwhile you go out looking for the easy fix everywhere. Taking powders when you should be taking foods. Did you have your 4 or so servings or fruits and veggies today? 2-3 dairy? 6-11 grains, etc? You are under such a false impression and have been mindwashed. Its sad.

You are a moron. I really have to say.

I don't pump nothing into my body because that stuff is dangerous.

Also, you're false to assume that I only eat protein powders... did you forget that I just gained 10 lbs in 5 weeks?

Yeah, I eat 3817.4 calories on workout days.

This involves over 300 grams of protein... uhh hey... 1 gram of protein = 4 calories. 300 x 4 = 1200 calories. 3817.4 - 1200 = 2617.4 calories... Hey I wonder what all these other calories could be for...

Yeah, I get approximately 45% of my calories from carbs, 405 grams, carbs like oats that will digest slowly causing a steady release of glucose into the blood making sure not to cause an insulin spike. I will also eat my VEGETABLES.. as a matter of fact, I have 6 cups of spinach per day. Why? Because popeye ate it... right... anyway I eat it because it is loaded with anti-oxidants and these battle the free radicals that want to cause muscle break down. I also eat carrots. Not to mention the vegetable's vibre will help slow down the digestion of all my other proteins causing a steady release of amino acids for protein synthesis (muscle building).

So, I get around 45% from carbs, 35% from protein, and that leaves us with 20% of my calories from another macronutrient... fat. Yes I consume like 90 grams of fat per day, and guess what, 25% of it is saturated! Why this much fat? Well if you consume the right fats, it will actually help you lose weight, help you build muscle in many ways and will do tons of other things. Reason I eat that much saturated fat is because it helps to produce optimal testosterone levels for muscle building of course.

Whole eggs, peanut butter and fish oil!

I don't eat fruits during my bulking phase as I don't need its nutrients, nor do I need its insulin spiking sugar that will cause people to get fat. I take a multivitamin to get me all the nutrients I need.

I am not going to argue creatine any more as it has already been proven safe through years of supplemenation by many athletes.

Theo, read the study about creatine supplementation within elite ice hockey players that I posted.

I came on here saying that if you want to get the best out of your hockey/conditioning, you better have your nutrition in check. That has to do with hockey, Theo.

Once again, you're the one who is sad for assuming that I didn't have my nutrition in check.

Anyways, it is time for meal #7, eating before I go to bed, some cottage cheese, peanut butter, fish oil pills, spinach and this will give me a supply of protein while I sleep so I don't go into a catabolic state (muscle breakdown).

See ya.

[Speed Demon 0]

And its not biased? You can't be serious..

http://www.bodybuilding.com/

Even if it didn't have the store, its still a huge industry and there are so many influences/ special interests in industries like that.

bb.com isn't biased. How could they be when they market a ton of different companies. They let you organize the products by lowest price, amount per serving, best sellers etc.

Like I said, they won't tell you what to buy, they will tell you to ask their message board for recommendations.

[Speed Demon 0]

Hey buddy, before you say that I am eating too much sat fat, go and check out epa/dha (omega 3 fatty acids).

I am done argueing here because I am smarter than Theo and if you want to argue nutrition, come over to the bb forums.

[Bruin88 0]

conditioning and bodybuilding are different i think. conditioning is about cardio and lung capacity and all that. body building it about strength. if someone can bench 400 pounds and leg press a few thousand pounds it doesnt mean they can run for miles

[Pats 0]

I am not going to argue creatine any more as it has already been proven safe through years of supplemenation by many athletes.

I think you should venture to a university class and learn about creatine. Apparently it is worse for your liver than liquor. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but common athletes? Are these the same ones that have been juicing up for years?

[hockechamp14 0]

I am done argueing here because I am smarter than Theo and if you want to argue nutrition, come over to the bb forums.

go benchpress you meatstick.

If you are so much smarter, why can't you debate theo here, or even in the sports training section in the BB forums...

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Why even bother arguing with Dexy, Theo? Dare I bring up the skate threads? We gave him a second chance...perhaps we shouldn't have?

Maybe it's just 'roid rage.

[predshockey17 0]

I think conditioning is a vital part of hockey. I played ice for the 1st time in 2 months. And was sucking air.