Leafs report?

[Eazy_b97 1]

You would put a guy like Czerkawski in amongst the top offensive players on the leafs and try and compare him to players like alfredson, naslund, and spezza?!?! It really doesn't matter if the Leafs offence is even close to matching up with the top teams in the league (it's not, there's no depth) because your blue line is unbelievable deep. Look at Vancouver and Ottawa: Chara, Redden, Phillips, and Volchenkov is pretty solid and I saw meszaros play a lot of games with the giants and he'll be great. Vancouver has Ohlund, Jovanoski, Salo, and Bryan Allen who is turning into a great young physical defenceman. The Leafs have McCabe, that's the only guy that ranks up with Van or Ottawa's top 3. Nobody else is even close.

Kaberle's been head and shoulders above McCabe this year. Klee has been on par. Khavanov plays much better with Klee than with Belak. Their top 3 are equal to other teams top 3, but after that it drops off. The Leafs are one of the deepest teams offensively in the league. I don't see anyone that can roll 4 lines to compete with them. The fourth line is Stajan, Steen and Wellwood right now. Quinn's always been infavour of balancing lines which makes them much deeper. I'd put Toronto's fourth line against Vancouvers second anyday, Carter is Czerkawski and the Sedins vs Stajan and Steen is a toss up this far. I prefer Wellwood on that line to Chow anyways. Toronto's centers give them a huge advantage in depth.

Quinn's lines

Antro - Sundin - Poni

Tucker - Allison - O'Neill

Kilger - Lindros - Domi

Steen - Stajan - Wellwood/Chow

No real number one line, but the depth is definately there. I don't know who put Czerkawski in the "top offensive players" category, I mean he's been a Healthy scratch a few times this year.

[Fonya 0]

I agree with the defense. Kaberle is in his prime in my opinion, McCabe is playing well as is Klee. Khavanov is playing good and then it goes to crap with berg and belak. I only get worried about our D when Berg or Belak are on the ice.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Sure, we've scored the most goals and the Leafs are a perenially high scoring team, but that doesn't mean we have the best offensive players. 

Do you think that the Leafs offensive core even comes close to matching the talent on Tampa or Ottawa or Vancouver or the Avs of old?  No way.  I might even give an edge to Boston over T.O. on offensive talent. 

And Hasek isn't the same "Dominator" he once was.  And Ottawa will not likely lose many shootouts, just b/c they've got guys like Heatley, Havlat and Alfredsson, who can dangle the shit outta any Leaf.

They have some top guys like Sundin, O'Neil, Lindros, Allison, some may throw Chow and Wellwood in there two. The thing is, they don't really have a line which isn't a scoring threat. How do those top 4 compare to...

TB - Richards, St. Louis, Lecavalier and Prospal

Ott - Spezza, Heatley, Alfie, Havalt

Bos - Thornton, Murray, Samsonov, Zhamnov

Van - Bert, Naslund, Morrison, Carter

Avs - Obviously more stacked.

I'd say as it stands right now, on a par with TB, as St. Louis is in a terrible cold streak and Prospal isn't doing as well. Boston has looked very weak from the games I've seen. I know they have some injuries and it was very apperant last game, but the players left, mainly Samsnov, Bergeron and Murray did not look like offensive threats. Ottawa has us beat, just like they have everyone in the league beat. Vancouvers 2 deep, Naslund and Bert. Morrison's decent, but I wouldn't put him ahead of any of the leafs top 4. It's hard to find a team that deep. We have alot of good offensive players in the wings, guys who are in the running for 20 goal seasons. It's a toss up, obviously I like some Leaf players more than I like other players because I can see them more, but Sundin is right up there with anyone in the world. With the lines balanced, I don't see a team that can compete with out depth.

IMO, one the most underestimate team is Montreal...

Kovalev-Koivu-Perezogin(that kid is really good)-Zednik

[msander 0]

You would put a guy like Czerkawski in amongst the top offensive players on the leafs and try and compare him to players like alfredson, naslund, and spezza?!?!  It really doesn't matter if the Leafs offence is even close to matching up with the top teams in the league (it's not, there's no depth) because your blue line is unbelievable deep.  Look at Vancouver and Ottawa: Chara, Redden, Phillips, and Volchenkov is pretty solid and I saw meszaros play a lot of games with the giants and he'll be great.  Vancouver has Ohlund, Jovanoski, Salo, and Bryan Allen who is turning into a great young physical defenceman.  The Leafs have McCabe, that's the only guy that ranks up with Van or Ottawa's top 3.  Nobody else is even close.

Kaberle's been head and shoulders above McCabe this year. Klee has been on par. Khavanov plays much better with Klee than with Belak. Their top 3 are equal to other teams top 3, but after that it drops off. The Leafs are one of the deepest teams offensively in the league. I don't see anyone that can roll 4 lines to compete with them. The fourth line is Stajan, Steen and Wellwood right now. Quinn's always been infavour of balancing lines which makes them much deeper. I'd put Toronto's fourth line against Vancouvers second anyday, Carter is Czerkawski and the Sedins vs Stajan and Steen is a toss up this far. I prefer Wellwood on that line to Chow anyways. Toronto's centers give them a huge advantage in depth.

Quinn's lines

Antro - Sundin - Poni

Tucker - Allison - O'Neill

Kilger - Lindros - Domi

Steen - Stajan - Wellwood/Chow

No real number one line, but the depth is definately there. I don't know who put Czerkawski in the "top offensive players" category, I mean he's been a Healthy scratch a few times this year.

Yea you're right, Toronto is a far more impressive team than Vancouver. There's no question they have 4 lines that are better than any other team in the league. I guess that's why they're an early pick to just maybe squeak into the playoffs while Vancouver is a cup favorite?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Because 4 lines make you win right? Good call there ace. Toronto's at the bottom of the predictions list because

A) 2 of their top 3 players are have played a combined 40 games in the season played

B) Their D is weak after the top 3

C) Belfours a 40 year old Goaltender with back problems

I did not say Toronto was better, I said they are deeper. Naslund and Bertizzi are better than Sundin and any other Leaf player. They make Vancouver a dangerous team. Toronto isn't capable of loading a first line and having them dominate the way the Canucks do with theirs.

How about you actually make a comment next time and state your position against it rather than bitching and making a dumb ass comment like "Toronto is far more impressive......" If you talk and debate, I'll put my 2 cents in, if not thats fine. I won't say Van is a bad team, I had and have them picked to come out of their side for the cup. It is largely based on their solid D and first line. I love their checking line with Park, Kesler and Cooke, but don't think line for line, offensively, they match up. Realistically, they don't need to. The checking and Linden lines are good shut down lines, Bert/ Nassy's line will outscore any line in the league and all the Sedins/Carter need to do is hold the fort down. Is this an incorrect breakdown? Are the Sedin's scoring machines? Because they sure look like they aren't scoring much better than Steen/Stajan/Wellwood? I'm pretty sure they aren't. Especially since they are getting second line minutes while Stajan/Steen are mostly PKing and Wellwood is only getting PP time and regular shifts until the 2nd period, all 3 are (or were last time I checked) relatively low on the team in minutes. 2 are rookies, Stajan spent most of last year with Belak and another rotating winger, while putting similar ppg to the Sedins. I don't think the Leafs are better team than the 'Nucks, but I do believe they are extremely deep for scoring because Quinn balances his lines. Vancouver could be, but choose not to be. Of the teams in the NHL, I'd put Toronto in the top 5 for scoring depth, however they lack and explosive "go to" line, its a swap.

[kosydar 0]

I finally got to watch a game yesterday.  The Leafs had a few unlucky bounces (the goal that wasn't allowed in the first which was clearly in, and the two close offsides which would have led to breakaways in the third).  I was really impressed by Steen and Wellwood, they both have really good hands.

You might want to consult a rule book before you say something like that. The goal was disallowed because the puck was underneath Esche and Tucker pushed him into the net with his stick. Watch the replay, Tucker drives his stick into Esche and forces him over the line. That's why it was no goal...not that I wasn't surprised Bob Cole had no idea why the goal was waived off...he was sure it was in!

The puck went across the line, and then Esche pulled it back out. Then it went back in again. Even if Tucker did hit the puck from Esche, Esche obviously didn't have any control over it. The ref was right behind the net, and he didn't blow the play down until after the puck crossed the line the second time.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

With regards to Toronto's D, I wouldn't say that their top 3 are on par with that of Vancouver or Ottawa...

I think Bryan McCabe is proving that he's a Top 2 defenseman, it's pretty tough to argue against that. However, I don't think that he is quite at elite status yet.

Kaberle, IMO, slots in anywhere b/w the 2 and 4 spot, but is definitely not a no.1.

Khavanov is solid if unspectacular, but doesn't slot in higher than the 3 spot for me.

So overall, I'd say that the Leafs have one guy on the cusp of being a No. 1 defenseman, a 3 and a 4. After that, not much else, although I do have a soft spot for Wade Belak... :D

[BoomBoomKaberle 0]

Kaberle, IMO, slots in anywhere b/w the 2 and 4 spot, but is definitely not a no.1.

Kaberle has played better than McCabe and would be a top pairing d-man on any team in the league. He is the Leafs #1 d-man.

[Fonya 0]

Kaberle, IMO, slots in anywhere b/w the 2 and 4 spot, but is definitely not a no.1.

Kaberle has played better than McCabe and would be a top pairing d-man on any team in the league. He is the Leafs #1 d-man.

No bias there... :lol:

And I agreee that he would probably be a top pairing d-man somewhere else but I dont think he's better then McCabe but he is pretty solid.

[DarkStar50 679]

Kaberle had his problems last night vs Bruins. Eddie B finally stole a game for Leafs. 50+ saves was ridiculous. So, how does such an "impressive" D give up 50+ shots? The Leafs still have too many Euros on the blueline. When the grass starts growing next spring, give me North American D-men when the games count for the Cup.

Did Jason Allison take his shot yet in the shoot-out? He is so weak at this he tried to smack in the rebound!!!!!!!

[Fonya 0]

He goes so slow! Why does Quinn keep putting him out there!

[DarkStar50 679]

He goes so slow! Why does Quinn keep putting him out there!

Was Allison any good at the shoot-out in pre-season? Otherwise, what 's the point? One of the Euro forwards must have some dipsy-do move Quinn could send out. I don't get it either. Its a good thing 88 finally scored on that same old, same old backhand move last night. Joe Thornton's backhander off the post was wicked quick, though. I never got to see a replay of that attempt. Bergeron's backhander hit the side of the net. Eddie B didn't even touch that puck.

[BoomBoomKaberle 0]

Kaberle had his problems last night vs Bruins.

The Leafs still have too many Euros on the blueline. When the grass starts growing next spring, give me North American D-men when the games count for the Cup.

Hey Don Cherry! Kaberle had no problems last night.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

He goes so slow! Why does Quinn keep putting him out there!

I think it's because he keeps racking up assists...

[Eazy_b97 1]

He goes so slow! Why does Quinn keep putting him out there!

Was Allison any good at the shoot-out in pre-season? Otherwise, what 's the point? One of the Euro forwards must have some dipsy-do move Quinn could send out. I don't get it either. Its a good thing 88 finally scored on that same old, same old backhand move last night. Joe Thornton's backhander off the post was wicked quick, though. I never got to see a replay of that attempt. Bergeron's backhander hit the side of the net. Eddie B didn't even touch that puck.

Allison beat every goalie he faced in the pre-season, he lost control on a few though. I think he shot 3 times, beat Raycroft and Theodore, and someone else, but I'm not sure if he finished any

Did you watc the game Darkstar? Belfour was definately hot and cold. The 43 saves were great, but he also put them in a situation where he needed to make saves.

[ktang 34]

There was also a flukey goal. Belfour came out to play the puck to the right of his net, realized that if he did so it would be a penalty (the puck was behind the goal line but not in the trapezoid), got caught in no-man's land, and the Bs scored.

[DarkStar50 679]

Ok guys, part of the game I saw, part I heard from the next room. I will admit to missing Eddie flub one. Kaberle was coughing up the puck from his goal line a few times. Your #1 D-man has to OWN that puck whenever he touches it in his defensive zone. I'm talking about D-men like Brian Leetch and Scott Stevens in their prime who simply CONTROLLED the puck once they got a hold of it in their zone. Leetch and Stevens would take the puck in their zone and it was soon quickly out of the zone. Leetch could carry it out while Stevens made the strong first pass to clear the zone. I watched these two guys do this for years. I'm sorry but I do not see Kaberle showing that total puck control confidence in his zone with the puck yet. Maybe I'm wrong, just my observations.

I have the Center Ice NHL TV deal and even though I'm in NJ, watch the Leafs quite a bit just to keep up with you Leaf maniacs! Thank you for the Don Cherry reference! Its ok to disagree with the Euro blueline idea but I just want some tough physical D-men in crunch time, late third period protecting a lead. The last physical Euro D-man was...... They can handle the puck well, see Sergei Zubov(worst NYR trade,one of the worst) but rattle their cage with solid forecheck, bodycheck and its turnover time. I wish the Leafs well, no disrespect, just trying to call it as I see it. And I may be wrong..........

[Eazy_b97 1]

I love the idea of that type of #1 D, but I can't think of any. Watching part of the Pronger game and hearing reviews, he isn't that type of guy. Watched Niedermayer, definately not there, Blake's apperantly having trouble. I don't agree that the Leafs have too many Euro's on D, but do agree they aren't physical enough. I like Khavanov, but there isn't room for him. They need someone more physical in his spot. I remember Markov and Yusky here, which is why I say it's not a Euro thing. I wish they'd give Belak time with Klee, give him a chance to play with a real partner. People were blaming him for the Bruins comeback, like honestly, come on. They need to shore up the D and I'd really like to see Tucker, Allison and O'Neill broken up, Allison is killing those two guys. Bring up Cola and Kronwall (A big physical Euro D) for christ sakes.

I was just curious if you watched the game or not on Belfour. I was PISSED at the end of the second with him, he looked like garbage. Murray scored a weak wrist shot goal, the tip was debatable and I forgot the first.

[DarkStar50 679]

Easy b97

I saw parts at the end where Belfour was doing his job. I didn't realize he also stunk up the joint! Thanks for setting me straight. If Thornton's backhander in shootout goes in, the Leafs may have lost the extra point. How come Samsonov didn't take a shootout shot? This is funny: I like Euros to take shootout shots because they dangle but can't stand Euros on the blueline! Yeah, I'm messed up with those Euro guys. BTW, I have a good buddy in Finland who is a sportswriter. He hooks me up with press/photo passes when he is stateside for Devils and Rangers. Its a blast to go downstairs into the locker room right after the games while he jabbers with the Finns in the NHL. Half the team hangs out in the trainers room(off limits to press) with ice bags all over their bodies!

[beaucoup_fish 0]

The last physical Euro D-man was......

Darius Kasparaitis! I love that guy - he's got a huge heart.

And yeah, I agree with Easy, Yushkevich and Markov were beasts too...

Matty Norstrom and Chara...can't argue with Chara - he's too big not to be a physical punisher.

S'about it...

[DarkStar50 679]

Good call fishhead.

[Chadd 916]

BTW, I have a good buddy in Finland who is a sportswriter. He hooks me up with press/photo passes when he is stateside for Devils and Rangers. Its a blast to go downstairs into the locker room right after the games while he jabbers with the Finns in the NHL. Half the team hangs out in the trainers room(off limits to press) with ice bags all over their bodies!

Spend 10 minutes talking to Ville next time you get in with the Rangers, you'll be lucky to understand half of what he says.

[DarkStar50 679]

I was in NYR locker room during 99 's last year. After they would let the press in, his stall was completely empty. All the gear was locked up in another room. He also had a double sized stall. Messier was in Vancouver then.

[Fonya 0]

He goes so slow! Why does Quinn keep putting him out there!

I think it's because he keeps racking up assists...

He's right up there in the shootout assists!