Womans Hockey

[robin640 0]

The Warroad High School boys' team must have felt like the 1980 Mens US Olympic Hockey Team.

[Crazy Otto 0]

The Warroad High School boys' team must have felt like the 1980 Mens US Olympic Hockey Team.

From what I read in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, it sounded like it was just a throwaway game for the women, while the HS boys were really pumped up about it.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Don't know what levels of hockey you're used to watching. My daughter's U19 girls travel team routinely beats boys HS teams in non-checking scrimmages. They pass and skate much better. There is a lot more teamwork and the boys teams have trouble keeping up.

I suspect that the comparison between the Canadian men's and women's is pretty stark just because at the elite level, the men are sooo good.

I'm not sure what to make of the idea that the elite level is a meaningless level to make comparisons. Yes, the men are amazing, but why are they relatively more amazing than the women ?

As for your daughter's team, we have to make sure we're comparing apples and oranges. Is her U19 travel team comparable to the boys HS teams ? if she's playing at BC , obviously she is a very good player. I would guess that most of the boys she's playing against won't end up playing at BC or the likes, most probably won't even go on to get a scholarship anywhere. Is there any question that the men's team at BC would squash the women's team ? Or that the boy's HS team at your daughter's school would squash the girl's team ?

I'm emphatically not used to watching women's hockey. I watched some of the women's national teams play the last time around on TV, and the difference in skill level - speed, skating, shooting - was startling. The link that someone else provided shows just how wide the disparity is - can you even imagine a boys HS team beating the US *men's* Olympic team ? Would the US Olympic team even *bother* playing a game against a boys team ?

[DLIGHTNING 0]

As is Team Canada , they don't always pick the best players , it is very political , if you are a favorite than you will be ok.

The US cut there best player in Cami Granato this year !

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Here's an article which equates the level of the Canadian women's Olympic team to a midget AAA team. No information on how good these AAA teams are.

Basically, the Canadian women's team dominated international competition but did not even manage a winning record against the boys.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Fries...29/1373458.html

Out there somewhere is a quote where I believe the coach of the Canadian women's team, or an executive, also makes the same or even lower comparison. I just can't dig it up.

[sherwood21 0]

The Women's Olympic team played Midget AAA teams in my area a little while ago. Here Midget AAA is better than in Ontario, Quebec, because the age is different. In Ontario you have 1989, 1988 playing together in Major Midget. 1990's playing Minor. Sometimes you get the best 90's (underagers) playing up.

Here in Alberta you have 1990, 1989, 1988 all playing together so there's a bigger talent pool to pick from.

The Women's olympic team couldn't even beat some of the worst teams in our Midget AAA league...

It's their job to play, they're essentially playing kids who still play for fun and they can't win. Not to mention they are close to 15-20 years older...I'm sorry that's ridiculous. Not to disrespect them because they are good, but Its just really painful for me to try and watch people who can't play at a Midget AAA level.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Here Midget AAA is better than in Ontario, Quebec, because the age is different. ...

Here in Alberta you have 1990, 1989, 1988 all playing together so there's a bigger talent pool to pick from.

Getting OT about women's hockey here, but do the best Alberta midget AAA teams beat the best Ontario AAA teams ? I understand that Alberta's rules give the teams a wider range of ages to choose from, but there are also fewer people in Alberta so the overall talent pool might not end up numerically bigger , even with the wider age ranges.

[matt 0]

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ). After that her team earned promotion to the second finnish mestis division, which is actualy proffesional.

Let me tell you this I've seen a couple of these teams in practice and it is a level most of the guys hanging around on this board can only dream off..

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition. Maybe not physical, but there are enough players who have a lack of size and weight, and still play or even put on some stats in the higher ranked leagues.

[DLIGHTNING 0]

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ). After that her team earned promotion to the second finnish mestis division, which is actualy proffesional.

Let me tell you this I've seen a couple of these teams in practice and it is a level most of the guys hanging around on this board can only dream off..

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition. Maybe not physical, but there are enough players who have a lack of size and weight, and still play or even put on some stats in the higher ranked leagues.

Well said , thanks MATT , These ladies are some of my best friends. I respect them and they are a different breed of player.

[sherwood21 0]

Here Midget AAA is better than in Ontario, Quebec, because the age is different. ...

Here in Alberta you have 1990, 1989, 1988 all playing together so there's a bigger talent pool to pick from.

Getting OT about women's hockey here, but do the best Alberta midget AAA teams beat the best Ontario AAA teams ? I understand that Alberta's rules give the teams a wider range of ages to choose from, but there are also fewer people in Alberta so the overall talent pool might not end up numerically bigger , even with the wider age ranges.

Just depends really. I've played in both places and generally when you get into the city teams in teh GTHL (toronto) the really prominant programs (Young Nationals, Marlies, etc..) beat the best Alberta teams but it really depends. Last year at the Telus Cup the AB team didn't win a game but they were an unreal team, so it really varies from year to year. I was really more saying that point to show the difference between a Women's team playing a Minor Midget Team and a Women's team playing a Midget team from Alberta.

Your point about the population is legit though, if there were more people out here then they wouldn't have that age spread around like they do.

[forbs02 20]

There will always be a disparity at the top levels b/w the men and the women. Its that way in most sports merely b/c of the physical differences. Its also a different style of game. I live in MN and have been reading some different message boards regarding the us women vs. warroad game. Yes, the women lost, but that game could have gone either way. Warroad is a solid club with a long winning tradition and those boys were fired up to play in that game. The women were equally excited to play a fast team that would push them to play better. The support for the women's game is far better now then when I started playing (10yrs ago) but it still has aways to go. I think it just needs to come down to a mutual respect. A lot of guys bag on the womens game b/c it isn't as physical and not as fast. They need to realize that it is a different game and that women don't want to be competing with the mens game. They are happy to play their game to the best of their abilities and to have fun with the competition. Hockey doesn't need to be a battle of the sexes, it just needs to be a game that both genders can enjoy.

[Project824 0]

Don't know what levels of hockey you're used to watching. My daughter's U19 girls travel team routinely beats boys HS teams in non-checking scrimmages. They pass and skate much better. There is a lot more teamwork and the boys teams have trouble keeping up.

Well it really depends what level of boys HS teams your daughter's team is playing. When I was in prep school, the U.S. Women's National team scrimmaged our JV A team every year to prepare for the Olympics, World Championships, etc. Our JV A team would beat them about half the time, but take into consideration that there was a Varsity A and Varsity B team ahead of the JV A team, with Varsity A producing a lot of DI players. (JV A would play a lot of the lower division public HS teams in the state)

There are girls that can play and likely beat boys in some areas, but it all depends on what kind of hockey you have in your region. But I wouldn't call a .500 series record against a JV team impressive by the U.S. Women's National Team.

And about the article on Warroad HS beating the U.S. Women this year, it doesn't say whether it was their JV or Varsity team, but if it was the Varsity team, they should be ashamed they only managed to beat them 2-1. Warroad HS is a solid program in Minnesota, a very good HS hockey state. Warroad most recently produced current U.S. National Jr. Team member, 2005 NHL Draft pick and current UND forward T.J. Oshie. Warroad puts a few players into big time college programs on almost a yearly basis.

(And if you read the article, it sounds almost like the refs had to put together a story to give the women a goal)

[forbs02 20]

It was their varsity squad.

[EBondo 232]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2281644 article right there

[M-Cohen 0]

I feel that women may be skilled in certain aspects of the game (Passing, Skating) but lacking in other major points (Shooting, Physical Play) in this discussion we have evidence of girls/young womens teams beating boys HS teams and such but this is in a non checking scrimmage. Wereas hockey is a very physical sport so i don't think that showing womens teams beating guys teams is a good exibition of there skill if there is no hitting... How for instance or two people supposed to go into a corner and not collide to get the puck? In that case the guy will probaply stop moving cause if he happens to want the puck and goes into the girl he will instantly be labeld and probaply get a penalty, but if the gal just goes in and pushes the guy off or something she will be applauded and then we will have an argument about which team is better.

[driz86 0]

I skated with some girls last night at drop-in from capital centre pride aaa. I have to admit they had skills and made me look bad a couple times when they cycled the puck. I'd still lay them out though...

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division  ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ). After that her team earned promotion to the second finnish mestis division, which is actualy proffesional.

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition. Maybe not physical, but there are enough players who have a lack of size and weight, and still play or even put on some stats in the higher ranked leagues.

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division  ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ).

What you forgot to mention was that she was a marginal player on that team.

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition.

I doubt that any women will play at the highest level of men's hockey in my lifetime. I doubt that women will ever play in the OHL or equivalent, or even Junior A or equivalent. I doubt that a woman will ever play midget AAA in Toronto's GTHL. I will even go so far as to say that if there was a professional league in North America open to both sexes but which used the women's rules, that the league would be comprised almost exclusively, if not 100% exclusively, of men.

[sherwood21 0]

Actually there was a girl from my town who played in the WHL. She was a goalie. And she played Junior A last year and was easily the #1 goalie and star player on what was the 5th worst team in all of Canada

[beaucoup_fish 0]

I've practiced and scrimmaged with the UWO girls team twice. They work hard in practice and games, play a better positional game and pass more than guys. They follow direction and the game-plan better than guys do as well. Maybe more team oriented?

Probably less ego.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Actually there was a girl from my town who played in the WHL. She was a goalie. And she played Junior A last year and was easily the #1 goalie and star player on what was the 5th worst team in all of Canada

OK, I stand corrected. I knew when I wrote that post that I was probably pushing it and should have googled first, posted second. That being said, I think the exceptions prove the rule, and doubt that women will ever be able to compete with men in any significant numbers, and stand by my assertion that the skill level of top-level women's hockey falls far below men's hockey. There's a reason why the only "sport" in which men and women commonly compete with each other is equestrian, and that reason is that equestrian is not a sport.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

Actually there was a girl from my town who played in the WHL. She was a goalie. And she played Junior A last year and was easily the #1 goalie and star player on what was the 5th worst team in all of Canada

OK, I stand corrected. I knew when I wrote that post that I was probably pushing it and should have googled first, posted second. That being said, I think the exceptions prove the rule, and doubt that women will ever be able to compete with men in any significant numbers, and stand by my assertion that the skill level of top-level women's hockey falls far below men's hockey. There's a reason why the only "sport" in which men and women commonly compete with each other is equestrian, and that reason is that equestrian is not a sport.

Don't forget snooker/pool.

I find it difficult to believe that there would be many people that dispute the men's game at the top levels is far better than the women's game.

[matt 0]

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division  ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ). After that her team earned promotion to the second finnish mestis division, which is actualy proffesional.

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition. Maybe not physical, but there are enough players who have a lack of size and weight, and still play or even put on some stats in the higher ranked leagues.

Hayley Wickenweiser competed a couple of years ago in the Finnish third division  ( suomi sarja - A semi-pro league ).

What you forgot to mention was that she was a marginal player on that team.

If girls hockey keeps on developing this way I think even more girls will be able to compete with the men in a mens competition.

I doubt that any women will play at the highest level of men's hockey in my lifetime. I doubt that women will ever play in the OHL or equivalent, or even Junior A or equivalent. I doubt that a woman will ever play midget AAA in Toronto's GTHL. I will even go so far as to say that if there was a professional league in North America open to both sexes but which used the women's rules, that the league would be comprised almost exclusively, if not 100% exclusively, of men.

At first I was not saying that she had a big impact in these Finnish leagues.. But still she was a decent player according some kind of article I have read somewhere on the internet..

I also do not believe that there will be a woman that did play NHL.. Not now and not in the future.

I think that woman should compete against woman, and men against men. However I do like the development that Managers and coaches of proffesional teams dare to bring in female hockeyplayers. It might be just a typical European thing because as far as I know this has only happened in europe.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

I also do not believe that there will be a woman that did play NHL.. Not now and not in the future.

I think that woman should compete against woman, and men against men. However I do like the development that Managers and coaches of proffesional teams dare to bring in female hockeyplayers. It might be just a typical European thing because as far as I know this has only happened in europe.

Manon Rheaume was invited to Tampa's training camp way back when...she didn't make the team, and some might argue that it was a TB publicity stunt, but she was close.

[DLIGHTNING 0]

Ok , your getting away from what I am trying to find out in this thread. I am not trying to say that Men and Women should play in the same leauge yet that Womens hockey is making huge strides towards getting better and better every year.

I am an equipment manager at the pro womans level and I can vouch for this !

Unless you have been on the ice with them (as I do every week ) you can't compaire your skill to theirs.

I can tell you that most of the people on this board would have a hell of a time trying to score on a few of the goalies.

If we do a MSH skate in T.O I will bring a few of them out for you all to compare.

They are also a huge roll model for young girls and women just starting to play the game.

[Crazy Otto 0]

If anyone thinks I'm saying that women's hockey is on a physical and athletic par with men's hockey, let me clear that up. It isn't. But women's hockey in recent years has become a lot more competitive, the players' skills are improving, the parity among the college teams is getting better, the U19 club and prep school teams are getting better. As a fan, if you're looking for the kind of speed and power and skill that exists among elite level boys and men's leagues, you won't find it. That doesn't mean there's no entertainment value.