Cheesy Bantam / Pee-Wee Teams?

[WildFan 0]

Just curious as to your experience on this :

A few Bantam and Pee Wee teams in the area commonly "hide" or "short shift" certain lines or goalies, in order to produce a better record. Is this just uncommonly cheesy?

"Hey, congratulations little Jimmy...........you made the traveling A squad. Too bad though, you're on the third line, so we're only going to put you out there every sixth shift, okay?"

This is not sour grapes. I don't have a child in hockey at all, but I watch a lot of games, and I feel very sorry for these poor kids who make a good team, but then ride the pine. I think it is a little too early to be pulling this kind of nonsense, don't you? High school, perhaps, but THIS early? That seems to merely be a coaches selfish desire to produce a shiny record.

Get over it.

[Puddy 0]

That's a shame, really. Coaches will go to crazy lengths to live their "dreams". A local Pop Warner football coach once tried to circumvent the mandatory playing time rules by having players switch jerseys at halftime. It's just pathetic. Up until Bantam, at least, hockey should be about fun, fundamentals, and sportsmanship.

[biff44 0]

The hard truth of hockey is that even great players sometimtes ride the pine. Hockey, for those that want to progress, is a series of trying to move up to a level that you are not fully ready for, acquire those new skills, and work your way up to getting a full shift/making an impact. It is what it is. Do you want to progress at the next level, or be the stud at the lower level you just left? You see it all the time in Junior hockey, where a mediocre Junior player returns to his high school team, and suddenly becomes the schools scoring dynamo! Do you want the cheer leaders screaming your name, or the few scouts in the stands writing your name down. You have to choose.

When you are riding the pine, how you react can be the main indicator if you will continue to progress. You can sit there and stew about it, or you can watch the play intently trying to learn some new stuff, and then you are given your few minutes, go out there and really go 110%. Be ready, play hard, do all the small stuff correctly, do not be too fancy, and do not think about stuff too much--just go out there and do it. In practice be first on the ice, last to leave, and never dogging it. Eventually the coach will see the effort and start wondering what you could do for the team if given more ice time.

At the lower levels, sometimes the team is all about politics and not performance. If you are unfortunately on one of those teams all the work in the world will not move you up. The tought part is to honestly evaluate the situation. One trick I have used to figure this out--have your kid talk with the coach and say something like "coach, I really want to get better and play more, what is the top thing that you think I should work on". Whatever the coach says, go work on that every chance you get, maybe get some professional one-on-one instruction, and see if the coach responds when he sees some improvement. Don't forget, ALL parents (including me) think their kid is the next Bobby Orr!

[WildFan 0]

The hard truth of hockey is that even great players sometimtes ride the pine. Hockey, for those that want to progress, is a series of trying to move up to a level that you are not fully ready for, acquire those new skills, and work your way up to getting a full shift/making an impact. It is what it is. Do you want to progress at the next level, or be the stud at the lower level you just left? You see it all the time in Junior hockey, where a mediocre Junior player returns to his high school team, and suddenly becomes the schools scoring dynamo! Do you want the cheer leaders screaming your name, or the few scouts in the stands writing your name down. You have to choose.

When you are riding the pine, how you react can be the main indicator if you will continue to progress. You can sit there and stew about it, or you can watch the play intently trying to learn some new stuff, and then you are given your few minutes, go out there and really go 110%. Be ready, play hard, do all the small stuff correctly, do not be too fancy, and do not think about stuff too much--just go out there and do it. In practice be first on the ice, last to leave, and never dogging it. Eventually the coach will see the effort and start wondering what you could do for the team if given more ice time.

At the lower levels, sometimes the team is all about politics and not performance. If you are unfortunately on one of those teams all the work in the world will not move you up. The tought part is to honestly evaluate the situation. One trick I have used to figure this out--have your kid talk with the coach and say something like "coach, I really want to get better and play more, what is the top thing that you think I should work on". Whatever the coach says, go work on that every chance you get, maybe get some professional one-on-one instruction, and see if the coach responds when he sees some improvement. Don't forget, ALL parents (including me) think their kid is the next Bobby Orr!

I hear ya, Biff, and I can agree with you.............at the High School level and above. However, in Pee Wees (and below) and Bantams, it's all about development. A kid is not going to develop riding the pine. If a kid is not good enough to play full time on a particular Pee Wee or Bantam team, that's fine. He should be placed on the team that is a level below, to get further development/game experience. Pee Wee and Bantam coaches should not be fielding a team that has one main line, and "filler", otherwise. This is a tremendous disservice to the "filler" kids.

[UMWhockey 0]

In my opinion, even at the midget level playing time should be based on effort, not on skill. If you have a player who is not as skilled, but works his butt off, he should see good playing time. In my opinion, hockey, even at the travel level, needs to work on keeping kids in the game, not benching players and making them quit because of a lack of playing time. The sport, at least in the states, needs a lot of growth at the youth level. Coaches need to stress fundamentals even in midgets, but do it in a fun environment. The more kids we keep involved in the game the stronger the game will be at the youth, junior, and even professional level. I have coached travel at every age group and anywhere from rec to AA teams. On none of my teams did I have set kids that didn't get equal ice time. I only bench players if they don't work hard in practice and games... or if they don't do well in school. The concept being that you need to reward hard work, not natural talent. This means that you even need to bench your best players if they don't work hard. My teams have won championships at the travel level with 15 skaters who get equal ice time. Sometimes coaches need to take a step back and realize that there is more to hockey then just winning, because when kids quit because they are not having fun, the game of hockey looses.

[pldhockey4 0]

my team has about 25-30 kids

we have 2 main lines of offense and up to 4 or 5 total lines of offense.

our defense has about 4 kids.

my caoch plays my line and 2 others. but more if more bad kids show up.

thus every game we end up having about 3 lines and then end up haveing 4 lines in a game.

What im trying to say is that our 2 main lines get just as much as the 3rd line with bad kids. This is not a very effective plan because we need to have our 2 strong lines out there to score a few b4 he should put the bad kids in. MY coach isnt very good at lines. becuase the main goal scorers arent out there as much as they need to be witch has made us lose our last 3 or 4 games.

equality is honestly only for teams who have equal talent.

our tteam doesnt so i dont think we should have the bad kids playin.

or our coach needs to make a b team

[Eazy_b97 1]

Alot of questions come into play

Did the coach let players know he was out to win and would shorten his bench if needed? If so, the parents had the option to leave.

Did the player do anything to be sat?

Are the kids only their because their Dad's want them to be a "star"?

Are there other playing options for the player being sat?

Certain teams go with 7-8 players from Novice upwards, others go all the way up rolling 3 lines. It's dependant on players and teams. Luckily our area has alot of options, so you can play elsewhere or in a different grouping if your current area doesn't suit you.

[All Torhs Team 0]

In my opinion, even at the midget level playing time should be based on effort, not on skill. If you have a player who is not as skilled, but works his butt off, he should see good playing time. In my opinion, hockey, even at the travel level, needs to work on keeping kids in the game, not benching players and making them quit because of a lack of playing time. The sport, at least in the states, needs a lot of growth at the youth level. Coaches need to stress fundamentals even in midgets, but do it in a fun environment. The more kids we keep involved in the game the stronger the game will be at the youth, junior, and even professional level. I have coached travel at every age group and anywhere from rec to AA teams. On none of my teams did I have set kids that didn't get equal ice time. I only bench players if they don't work hard in practice and games... or if they don't do well in school. The concept being that you need to reward hard work, not natural talent. This means that you even need to bench your best players if they don't work hard. My teams have won championships at the travel level with 15 skaters who get equal ice time. Sometimes coaches need to take a step back and realize that there is more to hockey then just winning, because when kids quit because they are not having fun, the game of hockey looses.

This topic can be seen from many different veiws. Ive gone from the kid being benched to the kid watching my friends get benched. I disagree with some of the peoples veiw on this when they said peewee/bantam is to young. I think thats the perfect age. I was being benched when I was 9-10 squirts. Bantams and peewees I think the kids are old enough to understand that theyre sitting on the bench to win the game.

And that right there is where those third line kids have to make a decision, do I want to ride the bench or do I want to play down a level and be the star.

If you play on the good team, you will get alot of good practice in, now if you go on the lower team youll be a star and get all the playing time you want. I think that the coach MUST tell the kids at that age (squirts-peewee-bantams) that they will get benched if your on this good team.

We have had experiences with HORRIBLE coaches here in illinios where the coach will not tell you this information and just totally screw you after you have paid the money to be on the team. When a coach keeps info. like this, it can really make parents upset, spending all the money on travel/ice time (that you dont get).

Benching players will also tear a team apart. Carpools, one kid say that was fun, the benched kid will sit in shame. (experienced) When I was benched I thought if I was only given a chance we could win the game, I'd ask the coach if I could go out, didnt get to go out till about 2 games later...It got to the point where I'd say in the parking lot to my dad "can you grab my warmup stick out of the car".

Over all, I think that the bantams is the age where the benching players is "ok", but at least give them 3 shifts. (Ive gone to games and got none <_< )

Players need to understand that some have to be benched to win games, but coaches are the people that need to comincate with families.

Anyone think Something completly different?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Benching players will also tear a team apart. Carpools, one kid say that was fun, the benched kid will sit in shame. (experienced) When I was benched I thought if I was only given a chance we could win the game, I'd ask the coach if I could go out, didnt get to go out till about 2 games later...It got to the point where I'd say in the parking lot to my dad "can you grab my warmup stick out of the car".

Over all, I think that the bantams is the age where the benching players is "ok", but at least give them 3 shifts. (Ive gone to games and got none <_< )

Players need to understand that some have to be benched to win games, but coaches are the people that need to comincate with families.

Anyone think Something completly different?

I've been on teams where benching players has made it a much better room. Certain players don't want to have the game on their shoulders and would rather play 3-4 good "safe" shifts and have the compete, than play a whole game and lose. I really am not overly fond of benching in general, but at certain ages and levels the coaches need to go with their best guys. I wouldn't bench below Bantam, but that's just me and I understand why certain coaches go the other route.

[Jim A 4]

a couple things need to come into play..in this situation...

-coaches need to be upfront with the parents regarding their philosophy and mindset in running a travel team. If I'm coaching travel, its not equal across the board, in a house league I just roll the lines..they need to learn to play in different situations..

-parents need to talk with their kids...my 2nd year playing I made the team again..but would have gotten next to zero playing time..coach, dad and I sat down..and I went into a program for 2 years that focused on instruction and game play/tournaments...best thing that ever happened..

[Bruin88 0]

in rep thats completely normal ,youre there to win.

in c thats bullshit cause youre there to have fun

[Jbone 0]

Just curious as to your experience on this :

A few Bantam and Pee Wee teams in the area commonly "hide" or "short shift" certain lines or goalies, in order to produce a better record. Is this just uncommonly cheesy?

"Hey, congratulations little Jimmy...........you made the traveling A squad. Too bad though, you're on the third line, so we're only going to put you out there every sixth shift, okay?"

This is not sour grapes. I don't have a child in hockey at all, but I watch a lot of games, and I feel very sorry for these poor kids who make a good team, but then ride the pine. I think it is a little too early to be pulling this kind of nonsense, don't you? High school, perhaps, but THIS early? That seems to merely be a coaches selfish desire to produce a shiny record.

Get over it.

You've never seen that before. Here Bantam AA up to Midget AAA always does that. It's common here.

[Puddy 0]

Personally I think once you hit the high levels of bantam where most of the players are in high school, you're there to win. It is about effort however. To use a comparison, I played baseball all my life, got equal playing time all throughout little league, then once I hit JV at age 14, all bets were off. To me, "little league" hockey ends at pee-wee, now you are in it for the competition.

[Chadd 916]

Coaches shouldn't take players who they won't put on the ice just to fill a team. Around here I see teams do it all the time at squirt and pe-wee levels. They only work with teh top line or two and ignore some of the other kids. The sad part is, any real coach knows his success is based on how much he can improve the third or fourth line kids.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Coaches shouldn't take players who they won't put on the ice just to fill a team. Around here I see teams do it all the time at squirt and pe-wee levels. They only work with teh top line or two and ignore some of the other kids. The sad part is, any real coach knows his success is based on how much he can improve the third or fourth line kids.

Alot of coaches take these kids because of their parents and their willingness to play that role. Alot of people are just happy to be there. They'll sit and bitch about the coaches, playing time, etc, but aren't willing to drop a level and change things.

[Chadd 916]

Coaches shouldn't take players who they won't put on the ice just to fill a team. Around here I see teams do it all the time at squirt and pe-wee levels. They only work with teh top line or two and ignore some of the other kids. The sad part is, any real coach knows his success is based on how much he can improve the third or fourth line kids.

Alot of coaches take these kids because of their parents and their willingness to play that role. Alot of people are just happy to be there. They'll sit and bitch about the coaches, playing time, etc, but aren't willing to drop a level and change things.

I rarely see a kid who would rather play two shifts a game at a higher level than play every other shift at a lower level. It's more about parents being able to say that little jimmy is a AAA player. I still think that if you put them on a team then you damn well better be able to play them. That said, you still have to put a player in a position to succeed. You don't put your four worst players out to kill a penalty at any level, even rec hockey. If a kid is afraid of failure they will never excel.

[jason37 2]

It's more about parents being able to say that little jimmy is a AAA player

Amen!

[sherwood21 0]

Once you get into draft years you should expect that. It's just the way it is man

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Once you get into draft years you should expect that. It's just the way it is man

yeah but some people think that draft years are at age 9.

I really agree with Chadd on that one

[pldhockey4 0]

did anyone read the article about short shifting in the latest american hockey magazine?