Weightlifting

[Adam91 0]

Twist is garbage, some of the stuff he straight up made up... no scientific evidence, he literally made it up.

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/sh...highlight=twist

I don't understand how you can say Twist makes things up. If thats the case he sure screwed over the Canucks considering he was their head strength and conditiong coach for years. Do you have any more evidence behind your claim?

[hockechamp14 0]

Alright, I may sound arrogant or whatever, which is why I try never to touch the stregnth and conditioning stuff.

First: Charlie Francis doesn't need to put down twist to sell items. It could benefit twist to put down CF, because many people aren't as knowledgeable.

Second: Sorry that it requires a username and password, but I started a thread on the site asking questions about what items on CF's site are useful for hockey players, and someone jokingly said "Anything by peter twist -- he's amazing" -- another person commented by saying that they've heard from several sources that Twist goes on hikes in the mountains with a notepad that he writes down "new ideas" on. AKA Things that have no basis on proven past techniques or medical science.

Third: I've seen Twist's stuff, and read a couple of the Francis books. I've made my opinion after seeing both kinds of programs, and think that twist is bunk.

However, about the Canucks, I believe it was the team's grit, determination, and skill that got them to the '94 stanley cup final, they overachived despite whatever twist was having them do.

I like the Francis website alot, and I think it is a great learning source because there is so little researched about hockey training. So if you're interested I would recomend joining.

[LetsGoWings13 0]

My mom was thinking about buying a bow flex for my family. Is this machine a piece of sh*t or would it actually be and ok machine for at home use.

Does the particular machine that your mom is looking at have a squat attachment? If it does, then it would be an ideal inside the house arrangement, especially if it going to go upstairs or in a small room.

Yes it has the squatting attachment. Its the bowflex elite from costco.

[hockechamp14 0]

I am sure they are both great and they both have aspects of training they agree on and aspects that they don't.  Francis is 58 and is getting up there, while Twist is a much younger.  Francis might have more experience and Twist might have more of an edge in what new methods are, etc.  Either way, if you follow either of them you will see results, I am sure of that.  Because where they took themselves and where they are today; you don't get that far from training or techniques that don't work.

bingo, agreed

But weather it's francis or twist, I'm not one to follow someone's every idea blindly.

But one thing I did notice was in Twist's catalog, it has this quote, that I can't shake that says "in order to train balance, you must be off balance." It was the hardest I lauged in a long time.

-I wonder how many people have cracked thier heads falling off those bozou balls.

[gman 0]

My mom was thinking about buying a bow flex for my family. Is this machine a piece of sh*t or would it actually be and ok machine for at home use.

Does the particular machine that your mom is looking at have a squat attachment? If it does, then it would be an ideal inside the house arrangement, especially if it going to go upstairs or in a small room.

Yes it has the squatting attachment. Its the bowflex elite from costco.

As long as you use the thing, I see no downside.

Enjoy

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Charlie also said that the best sport specific exercise you can do is actually playing the sport you're training for. So if you wanna be a better skater, then skate more. If you want to gain strength and power then lift weights and also add sprinting and jumping.

Here's what Charlie said, I like it, if you want to be a better player, simply play hockey, it's sure is an all around training though.

[Jason Harris 31]

Charlie also said that the best sport specific exercise you can do is actually playing the sport you're training for. So if you wanna be a better skater, then skate more. If you want to gain strength and power then lift weights and also add sprinting and jumping.

Here's what Charlie said, I like it, if you want to be a better player, simply play hockey, it's sure is an all around training though.

I agree with that philosophy.

[biff44 0]

Yeah, except there are a ton of muscles that you do not use when you are just skating, and you need them to be strong and flexible every once in a while!

[Jason Harris 31]

That's where the exercise would come in.

He's basically saying to train hard to get into optimal fitness, then play hard to become as skilled as can be in your sport.

[hitz14 0]

Stay away from machines. You are an athlete, not a body builder. Do squats with a bar and a rack. If you have no rack, clean the weight and do front squats. Do sandbag clean and presses for everything else in your body.

Buy an old duffle bag and fill it with sand. Pick it up off the ground and press it overhead. Drop on the ground and repeat. When it is easy, add sand. Or, add one handfull of sand a day or per workout. This will work hands, wrists, forearms, biceps, triceps, pecs, traps, lats, and deltoids. Also erector spinae muscles, obliques, deep abs, butt, hamstrings, quads and also your calves when you lose you balance and have to catch yourself. Did I leave anything out? It also looks pretty cool in a very hardcore sort of way. If you do not have sand or are worried about getting sand on the floor, use rocks. Rocks are cheap and are even more hardcore in a very oldschool sort of way.

If you are REALLY tough, you can do full front squats with the sandbag on your front delts/collarbones.....

In the real world you are not going to have to pick up something that has a 1.2875" knurlled chrome handle. Train for functional strength and everything else will improve.

how heavy should the bag be to start out with?

[gman 0]

I would guess 20 to 30 pounds to get your technique down correctly. The great thing about sand is that you can buy four 30# sacks for like $10 and then just add more to your duffle bag as you get stronger. You can also do single hand deadlifts where you pick the bag off the ground beside your leg with one hand like a suit case. Do five or eight per hand and your obliques may actually be sore the next morning. You can do single hand deadlifts from between your legs as well.

If 30# is too light, dump in some more. Add sand as you need it. You do not have to be perfectly meticulous on the weight record keeping. Just go for a few weeks adding sand and you may surprise yourself with how much weight is actually in there. After a while you will count your weight by counting the number of empty sand bags. Keep us posted as to how this is coming.

Before I hung it up for the winter rainy season, my bag was finally up to about 170#. I could clean it over head ONCE, but I could get it to my chin from the ground four or maybe five times. Now I have to dump out some sand and start over again in the spring....

[hitz14 0]

could i use a sandbags instead of a duffle bag, if so should i just get a 100pound sand bag

[gman 0]

You could, in fact that would be the easiest. You would need to duct tape the dickens out of it or it will split open. It will also be quite a bit stiffer and therefore easier to lift and handle. That will allow you to use this heavier weight.

For the tape, tape all the way around and top to bottom length wise and then all the way around and top to bottom width wise and you'll be good. You can also throw it on your shoulder and go for a walk with it. Switch shoulders during your walk when one side gets tired. Talk about a "core" workout.

Good Luck

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

About the chat we had about machines versus free weights...

I recently purchased some videos made by Twist and in one of the 3 I have, he says he doesn't even have ONE machine in the Vancouver training room.

[Jason Harris 31]

Is that a good thing?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Yes or no, it depends what you are training for,

For hockey, you don't need machine, they are useless, why have them?

From what I understood, you have to work your body as a unit and machine is not doing the job. If you want to be a body builder, than do what you want.

[bainsstatic 0]

...

[willy0314 0]

I've been through the process of rehauling my workout program lately. I've got access to my schools weight room before hours now and it is very nice and complete. I do mostly free wieghts, although i do use the adductor and abductor machines. I"ll also use the dip/ chinup assist machine every now and then. Usually i'll set it to about 15lbs or so and do a few negative sets towards the end of my workout.

In my opinion, one of the best things you can do if you are going to be lifting free weights for hockey is to get ahold of one of the big balance balls and use dumb bells. I try to use the balance ball for as many exercises as i can, generally switching between tradional and the ball each week. Its good stuff.

[Jason Harris 31]

Yes or no, it depends what you are training for,

For hockey, you don't need machine, they are useless, why have them?

From what I understood, you have to work your body as a unit and machine is not doing the job. If you want to be a body builder, than do what you want.

Kovy, believe me, all things being equal, the stronger athlete will ALWAYS have an advantage over a weaker athlete, regardless of the sport. And an athlete who ONLY trains on free weights will be be weaker than the athlete who learns how to incorporate the best movements from each.

When you've done all three methods -- all machines, all weights, combination -- for a month each with high density, you'll have the basis to make an informed decision. Until that time, you are doing yourself a disservice to claim one method is useless.

[gman 0]

I'm 20 years old and VERY weak.  I think I can bench 100lbs., 110lbs. max.  I can't afford a gym membership or a home gym, I was thinking of using the sandbag method.  Can anyone provide some insight as to if it really works, or is just a gimmick?  I want to specifically work out for hockey.  Also, would you suggest getting the book, or are there only a few exercises I need to do?

edit

And if there are only a few exercises, could you tell me how to do them please?  Also, where to buy sand?

In all honesty, you should start out with the good ol' standby of pushups, situps, pullups and bodyweight squats. Eventually go to one legged squats. Start those by getting a milk crate or a bucket turned over. Step up with one leg doing all the work like you are climbng stairs. Let only one leg do all the work all the way up and all the way down. Do sets of ten with each leg. After a while you can put your sandbag on your shoulder and add weight. If pushups become too easy, do one handers. If pullups become too easy, do one handers. I am not there yet....

You can work every major muscle group in your body with these exercises. Once you get a little more beef, go to the sandbag clean and press and front and back squats. They are certainly NOT gimmicks.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Kovy, believe me, all things being equal, the stronger athlete will ALWAYS have an advantage over a weaker athlete, regardless of the sport. And an athlete who ONLY trains on free weights will be be weaker than the athlete who learns how to incorporate the best movements from each.

When you've done all three methods -- all machines, all weights, combination -- for a month each with high density, you'll have the basis to make an informed decision. Until that time, you are doing yourself a disservice to claim one method is useless.

So why are bodybuilder not in the NHL.

You sure wanna be big and strong, but you also wanna be more agile,fast and quick . For hockey, you don't want to have big dumb muscles. Biceps are useless to any hockey movement, I don't think someone who can lift 60 pounds per arm or more is going to have an advantage on the one can just do like 25-30. Machines are more prone to injuries because you are not working those small muscles and when you are on the ice these small muscles are sometimes working. You wanna have functional strenght.

Things can't be equal if you train machine over free weights, medicine ball, etc...

[hitz14 0]

You could, in fact that would be the easiest. You would need to duct tape the dickens out of it or it will split open. It will also be quite a bit stiffer and therefore easier to lift and handle. That will allow you to use this heavier weight.

For the tape, tape all the way around and top to bottom length wise and then all the way around and top to bottom width wise and you'll be good. You can also throw it on your shoulder and go for a walk with it. Switch shoulders during your walk when one side gets tired. Talk about a "core" workout.

Good Luck

do you think that it would rip if i put one sand bag into another one to make it stronger?

[Jason Harris 31]

So why are bodybuilder not in the NHL.

For the same reason there aren't many 5'10" players in the NBA -- the desired genetics are different. The genetics that a bodybuilder needs, the ability to build pure size -- by hook or crook ;) -- aren't generally conducive to being a good skater. However, I've seen some NHL players in the locker room and most of them have bodybuilders' thighs, something that is conducive to skating fast.

Back to my original premise, a stronger athlete will be a better athlete. A hockey player who maintains his leanness while going from 178 pounds to 193 pounds will be stronger, faster and, if he chose his exercises well, more durable. I think most of us who have been around the rink know players who had the skills to go further in their career but were stifled because of lack of size. That's because player salaries are investments for clubs; if they don't feel a player will last through a season, they'll pass on that player.

Biceps are useless to any hockey movement, I don't think someone who can lift 60 pounds per arm or more is going to have an advantage on the one can just do like 25-30.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, the stronger man will be better on draws and have stronger shots. I've seen it in action.

Machines are more prone to injuries because you are not working those small muscles and when you are on the ice these small muscles are sometimes working.

This is one we won't be able to know without seeing the results of controlled study, although history suggests the opposite. Machines produce greater strength throughout a muscle's entire movement, whereas weights cause muscles to be out of balance, leading to more tears.

I've read about a number of teams that have questioned whether they should scale back their strength and conditioning programs, because there have been FAR more muscle tear injuries over the past twenty years. Most S&C programs are weighted more toward free weights, so that suggests that free weights are causing more injuries.

You wanna have functional strenght.

Strength and conditioning comes from exercise. Functional strength for a sport comes from playing the sport.

Things can't be equal if you train machine over free weights, medicine ball, etc...

Actually, things would be more equal, because each method has disadvantages. Taking the best of each method will make you a stronger athlete.

[gman 0]

do you think that it would rip if i put one sand bag into another one to make it stronger?

Are you talking about the paper sandbag that you buy the stuff in at the store or a nylon/burlap type sandbag like they use to shore up levies and other flood zones??

If you are talking about the nylon/burlap style, they will not rip and you do not even have to tape them. Just be sure you get the one end tied correctly. If you are staying with the paper-type bag, you need to either tape it or put it into another bag.

Hope this helped.

[thenizzle 0]

Kovy, believe me, all things being equal, the stronger athlete will ALWAYS have an advantage over a weaker athlete, regardless of the sport. And an athlete who ONLY trains on free weights will be be weaker than the athlete who learns how to incorporate the best movements from each.

When you've done all three methods -- all machines, all weights, combination -- for a month each with high density, you'll have the basis to make an informed decision. Until that time, you are doing yourself a disservice to claim one method is useless.

So why are bodybuilder not in the NHL.

You sure wanna be big and strong, but you also wanna be more agile,fast and quick . For hockey, you don't want to have big dumb muscles. Biceps are useless to any hockey movement, I don't think someone who can lift 60 pounds per arm or more is going to have an advantage on the one can just do like 25-30. Machines are more prone to injuries because you are not working those small muscles and when you are on the ice these small muscles are sometimes working. You wanna have functional strenght.

Things can't be equal if you train machine over free weights, medicine ball, etc...

the main issue i have with your claims is that, if what you say is right and we dont need to work out, why do pros and college players spend almost ALL their free time in the gym working out? and i mean for heaven's sake, they show you videos sometimes of pros working out, and you better believe you see them on machines. just a couple years ago when stevy Y got seriously injured they showed a video of him doing the sitting down quad machine. basically, with lifting and with eating, etc, basically life in general, just do ALL THINGS IN MODERATION. this means a little bit of everything, ie free weights, machines, agility ladder, excercise ball, whatever.