Switching from Forward to Defense

[technophile 0]

Well we ended up letting a 2on0 go, but Im fast enough to get back so angled the girl into the boards and slashed the puck high off the glass.  I chopped at the puck and then lifted her stick.  We ended up GRAZING the boards and she started calling for a penalty.

The ref just told me to watch the contact (whatever) but is that the proper thing to do?  It was either that or play the pass, but they were really far apart so I decieded to take her.

If you go for the puck, and get the puck first, contact is not a penalty (as long as it's not excessive/obviously intentional). So if you chipped the puck away and then the two of you ended up going into the boards together, she was just whining and the ref correctly didn't call it (you were close to the line maybe, but not over it).

If you hit her, knocked her off the puck, and then chipped the puck out, it was a penalty and the referee generously gave you a warning instead of a minor (he can probably tell you're not used to non-contact, or he thought it wasn't intentional).

Playing D in a non-contact league becomes much more about position and stick work than in a contact league; you can't block someone into the boards and then retrieve the puck, you should play the pass (although "playing the pass" or "poke checking" can sometimes look a lot like a check ;)).

That doesn't mean you have to avoid all contact. Last season I was the sole D on the point, puck in their zone, and they chipped it around the boards. Their fastest skater was angling towards it, as was I. We got there at the same time, I chipped the puck off his stick and then crushed him into the boards. (My goalie later told me that it was a beautiful, clean hit.) The ref didn't call it because I got the puck first, and I wasn't lining him up for a check -- we just both were going for the puck and there was no way I could avoid hitting him.

[technophile 0]

They told us that "if they fall and you stay standing, you're probably going to get called."

I've been playing for god knows how many years and am strong on my skates. OF COURSE I'm going to stay standing.

Well, it's possible that your league is called more tightly than mine; in my league (adult co-ed beer league), if two guys come together fighting for the puck, and one goes down, it's generally not a penalty unless there was an obvious trip, elbow, or dangerous play (crosscheck etc).

You're just going to have to learn where the line is with your refs. You probably will take penalties, since you're a physical player, until you learn exactly what you can and can't do.

Again, in general, go for the puck and let any contact be incidental. You can't go initiating contact for its own sake (or as a way to get the puck), but you don't have to shy away from it as a side effect of going after the puck, either.

[Chadd 916]

If you go for the puck, and get the puck first, contact is not a penalty (as long as it's not excessive/obviously intentional).

That's not the way USAH rules are.

[technophile 0]

If you go for the puck, and get the puck first, contact is not a penalty (as long as it's not excessive/obviously intentional).

That's not the way USAH rules are.

Incidental, completely accidental, unavoidable contact caused by two people both working hard to get to the puck first is a minor?

That's not how I read the rules, and not how the game ought to be played IMO, even in non-checking leagues. And it's not how the refs around here call it.

Obviously there's going to be variation from league to league (I suspect refs call non-checking leagues tighter if there are checking leagues locally; there aren't in my area), but I have a hard time imagining that refs actually call non-checking leagues as "you're not allowed to touch another player, at all, in any capacity, period, or you sit" leagues.

Edit: Quoted directly from the USAH 2005-2007 rulebook:

In all nonchecking age classifications...There are instances when considerable body contact between the puck carrier and an opponent may occur that should not be penalized, provided that there has been no overt hip, shoulder or arm contact to physically force the opponent off the puck. Likewise, there shall be no penalty assessed if the puck carrier unsuccessfully attempts to skate through too small an opening between the boards and a stationary opponent and a collision occurs, unless there has been an overt action to body check the puck carrier.

Rule 640(a).

[repus 0]

Unfortunately the rules are applied at the referees descretion. In most lower leagues, if they see a player fall, they will call a penalty in the general case.

I have always looked at playing defense as a science. Each player/team/refereee, you need to adjust your game accordingly. Figure out what works and what doesn't work. Some games you will be able to physically destroy a team, while others you need to play with a bit more finesse.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, now just be patient :)

-dave

[warrior37 0]

It sounds like you may want to look into the Central Hockey League or the SPHL, these leagues sound like they may suite your physical style of play better and you could also earn some spending money.

[gavin 0]

It sounds like you may want to look into the Central Hockey League or the SPHL, these leagues sound like they may suite your physical style of play better and you could also earn some spending money.

Are you talking to Ti-girl? In which case, I think that Ti-girl is a girl which would make it kinda hard to play in either of those semi-pro leagues.

Plus, I don't think you can move from non-contact straight into a league like that... probably a few years in Men's Senior A, Junior A, NCAA or something like that would be prerequisite.

[Gongshow11 1]

na she could play there, the way she talks, she light up the sphl. manon rheaume did.

i think the prerequisite for those leagues are club hockey not in NCAA or ACHA

[gavin 0]

na she could play there, the way she talks, she light up the sphl. manon rheaume did.

i think the prerequisite for those leagues are club hockey not in NCAA or ACHA

Don't be a moron. Just cause she says that she's better than most girls on a low-level hockey team DOESN'T mean she's thinks she's headed for the pros. And Manon Rheaume didn't light up the SPHL, it wasn't even around when she was playing Minors. I think she played IHL, which was more like AHL level anyways.

Point is, no one on this thread is the calibre of Rheuame. And no one's claiming to be. But we're talking about playing in leagues that are lower than what we're used to. Which apparently you can't sympathize with.

[Gongshow11 1]

manon rheaume sucked, I could have sniped on her. She played in an x in the show as a popularity stunt. And no we arent talking about leagues lower than we're used to, as she wants to know how to switch from forward to defense.

Gavin go one on one with ti-girl, she'll jason smith you and send you on the first boat to europe to win the scoring title.

[Project824 0]

Manon Rheaume was terrible and only made it as far as she did because she was a woman. I'm not saying she wasn't better than a lot of guys, because she was, but she was not better than 99% of professional goaltenders. This is with experience having shot on her. It's one thing to base talent on a goalie who plays 12 minutes in a game, sees 6 shots and doesn't allow one, but it's entirely different to see them in practice where they'll see upwards of 100 pucks in an hour. When the coaches are calling you "turnstile" because you've turned around so many times to dig the puck out of the net, you know it's bad. She was a circus act, she ended up sticking around in that ridiculous pro roller hockey league because she was banging the team's leading scorer and eventually married him.

By the way, I think you'd be surprised just how talented you have to be to play in the SP. Yes, it's a rough league, and you'd better be able to fight. But if you want to be in the league and not fight, you'd better have some talent. A lot of the players in the SP are guys that were 2-4 liners in Major Jr., bottom roster NCAA DI guys, and a few NCAA DIII guys. There's a few club guys, but still only from top programs. There is no shortage of guys who want to/have no life skill other than to play hockey. Only thing is at the SPHL level, the pay and quality of life is at a level where most guys who have other options reevaluate whether they still want to play.

[Shark#81 0]

Back to the subject of the thread. I need some help. After playing center/wing for the last ..20 years, our team got short on D. I volunteered as fill in. I played D way back. How hard could it be?? Now it's permanent and I even got an official sidekick, who is top notch.

First problem I need to address is inside the helmet. I find the D position to be very demanding, and using different skills and with ancient instincts to call on, none are second nature. I feel a constant pressure, like a headache and play the game too stressed out. Playing forward, it's like a vacation.

As a forward I could attack, take away space, use my speed/skating to create opportunity or reel-in puck carriers on the backcheck - reckless fun.

Now on D I am this goat hanging out for slaughter. I am nervous when playing on the opposing blue line for fear of getting gutted. My point shot was never that good. Made worse by the sprained shoulder.

My partner is scoring tho, has a good shot and putting up points so he is the goto guy for me most of the time. I am like this bumbling servant. I tend to hang back to cover off him. I will run some forecheck interference to give him more time to carry or make the outlet. I will identify and cover the most dangerous player (typically in the slot) and disregard the puck.

I often have to back in and watch a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 in friggin' slow motion "taking away the pass". That drives me nuts. This goat on skates doing nothing about these guys waltzing in having their way with all that open ice.

The team has been encouraging all the way, no fault to them.

No goals, got maybe 5 assists in 10 games, 7 - 3 - 0. Probably a scratch +/- maybe a + because our team is doing well. I feel like Bryan McCabe. Last nite I bobbled the puck at the line, and tripped over myself like a panicked idiot for fear of a clear-cut break happening (my buddy had it covered). Looks like a goat, smells like a goat, is a goat.

[TheProfessor 2]

I know the feeling, when you're defending a 2 on 1, your instinct is to take the puck from the first guy, especially if you're the better skater. You just gotta fight that urge and cover the other man so your goalie can concentrate on making the save.

[joelnmich 0]

so long as you can push the puck carrier wide and take away the pass you can be effective against both players in a 2v1....you can't just let the puck carrier walk in and shoot on the goalie w/o pressure.

__

hold the stick close to your body as the carrier moves in and then extend it to poke the puck away....you'll fool the puck carrier as to the length of your reach.

---

you chould be able to drop one hand off of your stick and push players in front of the net...don't use your stick to move them and you won't usually get a penalty

[technophile 0]

I know the feeling, when you're defending a 2 on 1, your instinct is to take the puck from the first guy, especially if you're the better skater. You just gotta fight that urge and cover the other man so your goalie can concentrate on making the save.

Yeah, but you also have to stay close enough to the carrier that they can't take all day, or cut across the front of the goal and play it like a breakaway, either.

[technophile 0]

First problem I need to address is inside the helmet. I find the D position to be very demanding, and using different skills and with ancient instincts to call on, none are second nature. I feel a constant pressure, like a headache and play the game too stressed out. Playing forward, it's like a vacation.

First off, and I know this is hard, relax. Playing tense/stressed just makes everything harder. Don't beat yourself up if you get beat, or if they score, because it takes your mind off your game and that makes you a worse player.

As a forward I could attack, take away space, use my speed/skating to create opportunity or reel-in puck carriers on the backcheck - reckless fun.

Taking away space is a prime tactic as a D. One rule, though: never challenge unless you have backup. If you're the last guy between the carrier and your goalie, you don't pinch, you don't stand him up, you back up and play for time until help comes.

If you do have backup (by which I mean there are 2 of you and one opponent, or 3 and 2, or 4 and 3, etc), then go right ahead and get in his face. Make him make a move or pass it before he's ready. If you get beat, fine, let your backup take him and get your butt back into position.

Now on D I am this goat hanging out for slaughter. I am nervous when playing on the opposing blue line for fear of getting gutted. My point shot was never that good. Made worse by the sprained shoulder.

My rule above is good for the blue line, too. If your partner is back and there's noone cherry picking behind you, and your forwards backcheck well, go ahead and pinch in or try to hold the puck in. If not, back up and let them come to you.

The shot just takes time. You honestly don't need a cannon of a shot, just put a wrister towards the net. All you want to do is get the puck towards the net, through any immediate traffic, and let it bounce around in front of the net. Your forwards will love you, the opposing goalie will have kittens. If you have a cannon, fine, but it's not strictly necessary at most levels.

Other random tips:

Don't chase people behind your own net. All that does is leave the slot area undefended, and if he beats you out front you're looking at a sudden 2-1 or 2-0.

One D should always be in front of the net in your zone. Don't ever give up uncontested slot shots.

Be there for rebounds. Put them into the corner if you feel rushed, it's never a bad place to go.

I often have to back in and watch a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 in friggin' slow motion "taking away the pass". That drives me nuts. This goat on skates doing nothing about these guys waltzing in having their way with all that open ice.

If you take away the pass and the carrier has no options but to shoot, you've done your job -- and frustrated the other guys, which will drive them nuts.

One other thing I might suggest -- since you were a longtime forward, think back to defenders who did a good job against you, who frustrated you and kept you off the board. What did they do? How did they play you?

Last nite I bobbled the puck at the line, and tripped over myself like a panicked idiot for fear of a clear-cut break happening (my buddy had it covered). Looks like a goat, smells like a goat, is a goat.

Yeah, D is more like playing goal, because you can pretty clearly identify specific points at which a D made mistakes that led to losing the game, where with forwards you can't more often than not. That doesn't mean you can't take chances, you just need to be a little more aware. Know where your partner is, keep an eye on dangerous players, etc.

Hang in there. The instincts and skills are different, but you'll pick them up, especially if you have an experienced partner giving you tips.

[Jarick 5]

The one thing I'll add which is obvious but I haven't seen, keep the shots from the point low and get them off quick.

[barrett 0]

Watch your gap on an opposing player. It can really make the difference between stopping the man or getting burnt. When he is coming in on your blue line and it is not an odd man rush on you , you need to make sure you are not giving him to much space to get any momentum or time to shoot or get by you. Also angling the man to the outside can do wonders. When in front of the net try to stay facing upwards with your head on a swivel and standing by the post if you are the opposite d man of where the puck is. When breaking out always focus on making the first pass as that sets up the whole play and can determine the success of that play. Just play confident and smart and you'll do fine.

[quasi 0]

Watch your gap on an opposing player.

I think that gap control is one of the most important skills, if not the most important, for defensemen. A bad gap will either lead to the guy blowing by you, or you allowing him to skate right into your zone and take a shot. At the level I play (high school), there is way too much of both.

[Shark#81 0]

Those are exc. pointers - and I've been practicing my point shot, practiced backing and turning on both sides and the surprise-strike poke check for the 2-1 situation.

I was just getting my head around playing another D game but the team was short guys Sunday nite so we went with our 3 official D and I took another "vacation" to forward. Was +4 in a 7-1 win, which was fun.

I get the yips when we play the fast top teams and the score is tight. If I can get comfortable with my game back there and relaxed I'll be much better. One way to look at it is there is a heck of a lot more ice time.