Hostage Situation

[All Torhs Team 0]

Theres another "Columbine" hostage situation going on right now in the Denver area. Im pretty sure its in Bailey, Colorado. If not there, really close to Denver.

So far there have been 6 hostages, 4 released, one girl critically injured with a bomb like sound. The SWAT entered then and I think that there is 1-2 hostages left.

Sad

[Jason Harris 31]

It's in Bailey, which is two towns south of where I live in Evergreen (about 25 miles west of Denver into the foothills). Last I heard on the radio, the gunman was taken into custody.

I don't know what the answer is, although I think part of our problem is the publicity we give these wackos. Even if they decide they don't need to walk out of it alive, they tell themselves that they'll be immortalized. I can't claim to be a fan of guns being so readily available, and I feel that our judiciary over two centuries has certainly stretched the meaning of the 2nd Amendment -- I don't see too many people maintaining a well regulated militia.

That said, supposedly Switzerland issues guns to its adult males; they don't seem to have an issue with their populace. Sadly, I think too much of America is a violent culture and we would probably do just as much damage bashing each other with maces.

[Eazy_b97 1]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

[All Torhs Team 0]

Gunmen is dead.

Had 6 female hostages in the high school.

One critically shot.

[Chadd 916]

It's in Bailey, which is two towns south of where I live in Evergreen (about 25 miles west of Denver into the foothills). Last I heard on the radio, the gunman was taken into custody.

I don't know what the answer is, although I think part of our problem is the publicity we give these wackos. Even if they decide they don't need to walk out of it alive, they tell themselves that they'll be immortalized. I can't claim to be a fan of guns being so readily available, and I feel that our judiciary over two centuries has certainly stretched the meaning of the 2nd Amendment -- I don't see too many people maintaining a well regulated militia.

That said, supposedly Switzerland issues guns to its adult males; they don't seem to have an issue with their populace. Sadly, I think too much of America is a violent culture and we would probably do just as much damage bashing each other with maces.

I believe the Swiss are required to be in the equivalent of the national guard, as are Israeli citizens.

[mack 44]

They're banned in Australia I think, which is odd since it's a nation bred from criminals.

[Project_2501 0]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

[Perry94 0]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

I hate it when Americans make that excuse to own guns. From what I know of American history (not a lot), the constitution was drafted back when you guys were trying to get rid of the brits. In this day and age, there is no need for regular civilians to carry guns. The only two contries that can possibly invade you via a land route is Canada and Mexico, and I'm sure that any sort of coup stemming from THOSE two countries can be stopped by half the personnel manning the border crossings.

Speaking of which, I was looking through a magazine stand, and flipped through a gun magazine. What does anyone not intending on killing someone need a sniper rifle that fires rounds that stay supersonic after 2,500 yards?

[Cheesehead 0]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

I hate it when Americans make that excuse to own guns. From what I know of American history (not a lot), the constitution was drafted back when you guys were trying to get rid of the brits. In this day and age, there is no need for regular civilians to carry guns. The only two contries that can possibly invade you via a land route is Canada and Mexico, and I'm sure that any sort of coup stemming from THOSE two countries can be stopped by half the personnel manning the border crossings.

Speaking of which, I was looking through a magazine stand, and flipped through a gun magazine. What does anyone not intending on killing someone need a sniper rifle that fires rounds that stay supersonic after 2,500 yards?

to shoot a deer...from your bedroom window...from a mile away

[Jason Harris 31]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

I don't believe that's entirely accurate, particularly if you've read any of the Federalist Papers. From what I've read, the Constitutional Congress discussed a Second Amendment that would basically have granted an unfettered right to bear arms -- no mention of 'militia.' Instead, they passed the following:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Our courts have historically interpreted the Amendment from its second half, but The Federalist Papers suggest that Congress wasn't comfortable giving a carte blanche right to arms. I understand people wanting guns for a sense of protection in their homes, but there's no doubt they are too easily attainable or allowed for some in our society.

[Meathead 0]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

Amen.

[mack 44]

I agree, you never know when an oppressive nation like England may try to rule the US once again. Arm me, baby.

[Oberon 0]

I stopped for gas in Bailey on Sunday. There's some creepy weaponry for sale at the gas station there - brass knuckles with blades sticking out of them, things like that. Right next to the camo-clad Teddy bears. Odd place.

[Eazy_b97 1]

This is going to sound extremely "flowery", but I don't understand why Guns are allowed for the general public. Issue them to the police and have them onsight for others when needed.

Sorry, constitutional right. Gimme my guns.

....but why?

[foppa21 0]

So what exactly does placing a ban on them accomplish? The wackjob will still be able to get his gun and now I'm shit outta luck and have to bring a knife to a gun fight when he breaks into my house. No thanks.

[pantherfan 0]

I agree, you never know when an oppressive nation like England may try to rule the US once again. Arm me, baby.

Damn those sexy English people! :D

[Eazy_b97 1]

So what exactly does placing a ban on them accomplish? The wackjob will still be able to get his gun and now I'm shit outta luck and have to bring a knife to a gun fight when he breaks into my house. No thanks.

With a ban there is no way for the nutjob to get them. You eliminate them from the general public. Guns would only be produced for the authorities.

Besides, if someone breaks in and they have a gun, you're screwed anyways. Guns will rarely protect you. You two will not go back to back and do your 10 paces. Guns are needless for 80-90% of the population.

[mack 44]

It is a silly, dated right. It came at a very different time and makes me wonder why it's still effective when other dated parts of the Constitution like the Three-fifths compromise were amended.

[foppa21 0]

You can't be serious...you mean to tell me that you think with a ban, every weapon would be handed in to the authorities and removed from the streets?

As far as guns rarely protecting you, they saved two families lives in the neighborhood my parents lived in in the week following Hurricane Katrina. This wasn't even down in New Orleans either, it was miles away. You still had looters with bad intentions that far away, though.

[Chadd 916]

It is a silly, dated right. It came at a very different time and makes me wonder why it's still effective when other dated parts of the Constitution like the Three-fifths compromise were amended.

Shouldn;t we remain armed in case we have a terrible president who breaks all kinds of laws, violates the civil rights of citizens and generally makes the country a worse place. without guns, we could never have a revolution. ;)

[mack 44]

Not a bad idea but I bet that certain President's fans would be a very well-armed and not very bright crowd. It'd be a dangerous sitch-ee-ayshun.

[Eazy_b97 1]

You can't be serious...you mean to tell me that you think with a ban, every weapon would be handed in to the authorities and removed from the streets?

As far as guns rarely protecting you, they saved two families lives in the neighborhood my parents lived in in the week following Hurricane Katrina. This wasn't even down in New Orleans either, it was miles away. You still had looters with bad intentions that far away, though.

It's a probably that I'd filter out. Ideally, all of the guns would be whiped out. Guns cause more problems than they solve. For every looter they stop theres another man accidentally shot or intentionally shot by someone who really has no right to use one.

[hip check 0]

Interesting conversation here.

Without the gun - the rifled barrel and it's inherent better accuracy than the ball-shot rifle - there wouldn't be an America separate from the British Commonwealth. The western frontier was crossed and settled in large part to being able to hunt and provide food for the families. This is a country with a history of using guns.

That being said, the availablity of guns to the general public does cause some people harm. Almost half of the Law Enforcement Officer death have been caused by guns - that's civilians vs. police....

Here is some interesting info:

"The following information was obtained from the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation through their "uniform crime reporting" data which is compiled from every law enforcement agency in the United States. Other statistics were taken from the "Officers Down" memorial web site. Anyone who is interested in obtaining crime statistics would be well advised to check out the FBI web site as well as the data provided by the officers down site. Both can be found easily through any web search engine."

"The top ten leading causes of law enforcement fatalities in the Unites States during the past century are:

1. Firearms [6,846 or 49 %]

2. Auto Accidents [2,090 or 15 %]

3. Motorcycle Accidents [1,022 or 7 %]

4. Struck by Vehicle [955 or 7 %]

5. Job-Related Illness [588 or 4 %]

6. Aircraft Accidents [311 or 2 %]

7. Stabbings [197 or 1 %]

8. Falls [147 or 1 %]

9. Drowning [142 or 1 %]

10. Beaten [134 or 1 %]

Statistics show the following percentage of injuries sustained through various means of assault on officers in the U.S.

Firearms: 30.2 %

Knives: 30.5 %

Other weapons: 40.8 %

Personal weapons: 35.0 %

... one last statistic to think about.

6 out of 10 gunshot victims die from sustained injuries. Conversely, 8 out of 10 knife attack victims die from sustained injuries.

You are 20 % more likely to die from a knife stabbing than from being shot in the United States. I don't want to experience either personally but if you feel you must, please shoot me. I'll have a 20 % greater chance of surviving - based on the reports submitted by police agencies to the FBI from across the U.S."

[willc7786 0]

Lets say, only for arguments sake, that every gun was somehow turned over to the authorities today, and tomorrow no one but the authorities had guns.

Do you seriously believe that if someone really really wanted a gun, they wouldn't be able to get on illegally. By banning them, you'd just open up a HUGE black market. Illegal guns would be all over the place, there'd be a fortune in criminals selling them. You ever see the Nicholas Cage movie where he was a arms dealer? All that action you saw in foreign countries would be right here.

[Eazy_b97 1]

That black market still exists today. It should still cut-down the number of guns on the street and with proper action severely cut down the injuries related to fire-arms.

As for the guns vs. knife - It's also alot easier for someone to shoot you than to stab you.