question for a knowledgable rule people.

[SickLife 2]

i pushed the puck up the boards & was controlling it trying to break by the dman pinching. i got by him, both hands on my stick, controlling the puck, & got called for holding. he also got called for hooking. but they said i was holding his stick.

is there anything i could've done to avoid this? i mean. i guess i was holding his stick under my arms, but he put it there & hooked. if i lifted my arms up, i would've lost control of the puck.

similarly, i got tripped & fell hard earlier in the game, but they said his stick was there (stretched out/pressed up against the boards) before & i just skated over it. but i'm not sure where else i had to go, i was skating the puck up the boards.

bonus pick of the cut from a high stick from later in the game before the stitches went in.

http://www.forcebled.com/IMG_1181.JPG

[hockeydoc 0]

Alright, that was gross.:lol:

Sounds like some questionable calls. If the refs were willing to explain them that thoroughly you've got to trust that they called them the way they saw them. Good refs can and will explain what they saw and why they called it. It doesn't mean it's the right call though.

From you explanation it sounds like you played it well, and should do so in the same manner again. There is always a risk of things looking a certain way to a ref and getting called, but you gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Chadd 916]

Sounds like both calls were correct according to the rules.

[--notorious 0]

i pushed the puck up the boards & was controlling it trying to break by the dman pinching. i got by him, both hands on my stick, controlling the puck, & got called for holding. he also got called for hooking. but they said i was holding his stick.

is there anything i could've done to avoid this? i mean. i guess i was holding his stick under my arms, but he put it there & hooked. if i lifted my arms up, i would've lost control of the puck.

similarly, i got tripped & fell hard earlier in the game, but they said his stick was there (stretched out/pressed up against the boards) before & i just skated over it. but i'm not sure where else i had to go, i was skating the puck up the boards.

bonus pick of the cut from a high stick from later in the game before the stitches went in.

http://www.forcebled.com/IMG_1181.JPG

And that is why people wear CAGES

[Docter Pepper 0]

And that is why people wear CAGES

I've seen 2 people split their chins open like that with cages on in youth hockey

[--notorious 0]

yeah but he was high sticked which the cage would have prevented

[BK 0]

Its a big debate.

I have seen injuries from both.. neither are pretty. Its all PP.

[jjtt99 0]

Wow, that cut looks like lips! Ouch.

[SickLife 2]

yeah but he was high sticked which the cage would have prevented

actually, the reason it was so bad was because i already had a previous injury in nearly the same spot on my chin, which i got while wearing a full cage. the chin cup got pushed into my face, & since there's no give, it busted me open.

i know what you're saying though. & i'm sure it is helpful overall. but the chin cut was really irritating the cut & not letting it heal.

Sounds like both calls were correct according to the rules.

i don't disagree strongly or anything. i'm just not sure what else i could've done. i can't immagine calling someone who has both hands on the stick, is carrying the puck, & is getting hooked for holding. especially since the whistle didn't blow until the other team touched the puck. it seemed like the ref was going to give just to the other guy, but got talked into giving to me too.

& for the trip, i guess its just most of the time i feel like it would be called any time someones stick causes you to get your feet taken out. i pushed the puck by him & tripped over his stick while chasing it up the boards.

[Chadd 916]

You said you clamped down on the stick with your arm, I'll call that every time along with the hook. Without seeing the other situation, it's hard to say but if his stick was there and you skated over/into it, I'm not calling it.

[hockeydoc 0]

You said you clamped down on the stick with your arm, I'll call that every time along with the hook. Without seeing the other situation, it's hard to say but if his stick was there and you skated over/into it, I'm not calling it.

Can't disagree with that. Except maybe to say that seeing a hold by an arm pit along the boards while getting hooked, I typically won't call unless the guy getting hooked disregards the puck and really obviously pulls on the stick. When I see a hook high enough for the guy getting hooked to merely clamp down yet not have to take his hands off the stick, I will typically give him the benifit of the doubt that his action is a reflex to protect himself from getting pit or rib abrasions. Really had to see it, sounds like it could have gone either way, but I'm giving a fellow MSHer the benifit of the doubt also... ;)

Trips are the hardest, as most guys feel that every time they go down there should be a call. It is true, that the guy with the stick does not automatically have an obligation to move it just so you won't trip. One option of what to do IMO is maybe jump over the stick, or get low and flex your knee through his stick. If his stick is pressed into the boards as you stated, it will come out of his hands or break. Hard to speculate with out seeing, but these are the impressions I have based on your description. Always judgment calls by refs. It does sound like you had a good ref though, as you indicated he told you the way he saw it, and the reason he called it.

[Fixxer 0]

Thats why these new rules suck.

[kosydar 0]

Thats why these new rules suck.

They aren't new rules, and they certainly don't suck. Most refs just don't know how to properly call them.

[SickLife 2]

You said you clamped down on the stick with your arm, I'll call that every time along with the hook. Without seeing the other situation, it's hard to say but if his stick was there and you skated over/into it, I'm not calling it.

correct, i clamped down. but since i was controlling the puck, if i lifted my arms i would've lost it. its not like i was away from the play & holding his stick in me to draw a call.

[Oberon 0]

If you clamped down, it's holding the stick. Whether or not you would have lost control of the puck in trying to escape the hook is irrelevant - it just means that the hook had the desired effect.

As for the trip, if the other player had his stick against the boards before you got there, he is not obligated to move it to give you passage.

[SickLife 2]

Can't disagree with that. Except maybe to say that seeing a hold by an arm pit along the boards while getting hooked, I typically won't call unless the guy getting hooked disregards the puck and really obviously pulls on the stick. When I see a hook high enough for the guy getting hooked to merely clamp down yet not have to take his hands off the stick, I will typically give him the benifit of the doubt that his action is a reflex to protect himself from getting pit or rib abrasions. Really had to see it, sounds like it could have gone either way, but I'm giving a fellow MSHer the benifit of the doubt also... ;)

Trips are the hardest, as most guys feel that every time they go down there should be a call. It is true, that the guy with the stick does not automatically have an obligation to move it just so you won't trip. One option of what to do IMO is maybe jump over the stick, or get low and flex your knee through his stick. If his stick is pressed into the boards as you stated, it will come out of his hands or break. Hard to speculate with out seeing, but these are the impressions I have based on your description. Always judgment calls by refs. It does sound like you had a good ref though, as you indicated he told you the way he saw it, and the reason he called it.

i think i just have a bad rep because i'm a fast 140lb guy who is gets knocked around & falls a lot. i was called for a dive on a breakaway once, but we won't drum that up again.

they felt i was trying to draw a call, but like i said, he got talked into it by the other ref. the other team & crowd probably influenced that.

anyway, my point is, i just don't know what else i could've done. i'm a righty & he hooked under my right arm. i figured i did the right thing by keeping both hands on the stock & controlling the puck.

overall, good refs, i was just mad we lost by a goal & the questionable calls. like the guy who high stuck me causing stitches only getting 2 minutes. there were a little over 3 mins left. a 4 minute call would've given us a 6 on 4 when we pulled the goalie.

thanks for the reply's & listening to my rambles though.

[SickLife 2]

If you clamped down, it's holding the stick. Whether or not you would have lost control of the puck in trying to escape the hook is irrelevant - it just means that the hook had the desired effect.

i just never realized that'd be called. just try to picture it. controlling the puck in front of me, stick comes under my armpit. what do you do? i'm already right next to the left boards, with him to my right. do you not skate the puck with your arms down?

if the ref puts his arm up for the hook & i keep trying to go forward with the puck, his stick still in my armpit & get taken down, it's my fault? :shrug:

[Chadd 916]

overall, good refs, i was just mad we lost by a goal & the questionable calls. like the guy who high stuck me causing stitches only getting 2 minutes. there were a little over 3 mins left. a 4 minute call would've given us a 6 on 4 when we pulled the goalie.

There is no 4 minute option for a high stick. 2, 5 or 5 and game.

[SickLife 2]

There is no 4 minute option for a high stick. 2, 5 or 5 and game.

i see my thread title was talking about you :)

[Chadd 916]

I would hope that I know the rules, I've been a ref for 8 years.

[chippa13 1844]

You said you clamped down on the stick with your arm, I'll call that every time along with the hook. Without seeing the other situation, it's hard to say but if his stick was there and you skated over/into it, I'm not calling it.

Can't disagree with that. Except maybe to say that seeing a hold by an arm pit along the boards while getting hooked, I typically won't call unless the guy getting hooked disregards the puck and really obviously pulls on the stick. When I see a hook high enough for the guy getting hooked to merely clamp down yet not have to take his hands off the stick, I will typically give him the benifit of the doubt that his action is a reflex to protect himself from getting pit or rib abrasions. Really had to see it, sounds like it could have gone either way, but I'm giving a fellow MSHer the benifit of the doubt also... ;)

Trips are the hardest, as most guys feel that every time they go down there should be a call. It is true, that the guy with the stick does not automatically have an obligation to move it just so you won't trip. One option of what to do IMO is maybe jump over the stick, or get low and flex your knee through his stick. If his stick is pressed into the boards as you stated, it will come out of his hands or break. Hard to speculate with out seeing, but these are the impressions I have based on your description. Always judgment calls by refs. It does sound like you had a good ref though, as you indicated he told you the way he saw it, and the reason he called it.

I disagree with your interpretation on the hook/holding the stick. That play should absolutely be called for holding the stick. If the player is trying to protect himself then he will use a free hand to move the stick away, not clamp down on it. Clamping down on the stick will lead to more damage when the defending player yanks his stick out.

[SickLife 2]

I disagree with your interpretation on the hook/holding the stick. That play should absolutely be called for holding the stick. If the player is trying to protect himself then he will use a free hand to move the stick away, not clamp down on it. Clamping down on the stick will lead to more damage when the defending player yanks his stick out.

i'm fine with that, but i never said i clamped down exactly. i just kept trying to go forward, it was quick. he stuck his stick in, i kept moving forward & we both went down.

i just never realized it was my job to let him take his stick out from my armpit after he sticks it in there. you know? i hope that makes sense. i'm not trying to be bitchy about the rules.

if defender gets beat & turns around & hooks, & the player with the puck keeps going forward & either pulls the stick out of the guy's hand, or goes down, i've never seen holding called.

[hockeydoc 0]

I disagree with your interpretation on the hook/holding the stick. That play should absolutely be called for holding the stick. If the player is trying to protect himself then he will use a free hand to move the stick away, not clamp down on it. Clamping down on the stick will lead to more damage when the defending player yanks his stick out.

i'm fine with that, but i never said i clamped down exactly. i just kept trying to go forward, it was quick. he stuck his stick in, i kept moving forward & we both went down.

i just never realized it was my job to let him take his stick out from my armpit after he sticks it in there. you know? i hope that makes sense. i'm not trying to be bitchy about the rules.

if defender gets beat & turns around & hooks, & the player with the puck keeps going forward & either pulls the stick out of the guy's hand, or goes down, i've never seen holding called.

That's why I said what I did, I hadn't read sicklife claiming he clamped down, just chadd saying that if he clamped down he would call it. Rules are such that a hold is a hold, but the subjectivity of calls is on the refs interpretation of what he sees or feels he sees you do.

Just clamping down is hard to determine unless it's accompanied by some other movement. Like if the guy hooking lets go of his stick and you skate off with it stuck in your pit, that's kind of obvious. If the guy hooking lets go of his stick and it falls, then I wouldn't call it. If the guy hooking jerks the other guy back, like I said I will give some tolerance to the one getting hooked. In a lot of cases when someone puts his stick up that high you can just raise your arm over the hookers blade. If the hooker is really pulling up and into you, all you can do then is hope he leaves your pit intact or clamp down a bit, and that is usually harder to determine from watching. Hence usually won't get called, and like I said, I knowing this do tend to give the guy getting hooked the benefit of the doubt.

[mac23 0]

I've been told in roller hockey it's OK to grab someone's stick as long as you have control of the puck, or did that rule change? And is it different in ice? I'm guessing that it is b/c I got called for the same thing the other day. I think it's a dumb rule b/c the guy's stick shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Chadd 916]

I've been told in roller hockey it's OK to grab someone's stick as long as you have control of the puck, or did that rule change? And is it different in ice? I'm guessing that it is b/c I got called for the same thing the other day. I think it's a dumb rule b/c the guy's stick shouldn't be there in the first place.

It's never ok to grab the stick in either sport. Some referees don't like certain rules and only enforce what they want. If you don't want a penalty, don't close your hand on the stick, pretty simple to me.