Figured I'd post up some pictures of my skate issue.

[nicksmission14 0]

I made a post a while back about my thin ankles and my issue with skates. Little background Basically I can skate great for about 5-10 minutes until my lace lock loosens up the slightest bit, then I loose all edge control and things just get bad from there.

Well we were bs'ing in the locker room the other day and a friend of mine happens to work at the LHS I go to and worked at for a while. He could not believe how hard I had to crank the top laces just to get the top of my skate to support my ankle, If I don't crank them like this I have no support from the top of the skate. Typically from my experience skate boots are typically parallel or slightly outward. Mine are curved inward big time, You can see this in the picture of the skate boot. I'm waiting for the G3 Ultra to come in at my LHS.. It's killing me because skating like this sucks.

[LGaarz12 0]

wrap tape around the ankle, it'll keep the lace tight and give your ankle stability.

[DamnLocust 0]

You may want to look at Vapors or Vectors, as they're quite stiff and also high cut boots that aren't all that wide in the heel. The Grafs will have a narrower heel, but will be lower cut and won't offer as much support in the upper ankle/lower calf.

Another option would be to re-tie your skates after warm ups, once the laces have settled into their place, or try backlacing to keep them there in the first place.

Tape around the ankle will inhibit forward flex, and is generally not recommended. Although it will add lateral (left to right) stability, your ankle will not be able to move as necessary in your skating stride.

[sds 0]

I have no idea what you are saying in those pictures. Everything looks normal to me. What am I missing?

[nicksmission14 0]

Yea I usually have to re-tie after warmups. Realistically I have to re-tighten my skates each period.

I use the lace lock method which JR and Oldtrainerguy mentioned in another thread. It has helped tremendously but still doesn't keep the skate tight enough to last efficiently after a period.

I've never tried on a pair of Vectors, 9K Pumps were a disaster, I tried compensating the width with pump (which I highly don't advise)... How wide are they in the rest of the skate?

look at the rest of the skate compared to the top, the ankle are stretches extremely far and I have a gap between the boot and my ankle which kills my ability to move left to right.

The pictures don't really capture what I'm trying to say as well as I'd like. I'm trying to get my brother to put on his skates so you can see the difference a little bit better, He's not cooperating though.

This isn't the greatest picture but... If you look close you can see that this player's boot is almost parallel with the rest of the boot if not stick out a little further in the ankle area

[djinferno 2]

looks like you pronating, try this

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...showtopic=30438

[nicksmission14 0]

Yea the tongue on my left skate for whatever reason won't align straight. It shifts to the left.

[fatwabbit 93]

hey nicksmission14, you arent the only one who has to pull the top laces really REALLY tight. I've got the same problem. At the moment, I'm using some Mission S500, and I've got to retie them every period as well.

[nicksmission14 0]

I'm guessing you have very narrow ankles as well?

[fatwabbit 93]

I've heard of a skate tightening device. Its basically a strap that you form a figure 8... under the boot, over the laces, and around the top laces. It secures it down real snug. I havent used it myself, but I've tried a similar way with 1inch straps and it does make the boots real nice and snug.

I konw that epuck used to sell it, but havent seen anything on their website on it anymore. I'll try to get some pics on what I am talking about.

[ju87 0]

looks like you pronating, try this

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...showtopic=30438

^^^^ what this guy said.

I have the same problem as well, except it's on my right. My Bauer XX look like they're bent inwards in the same way, maybe worse. When you skate, does your foot feel like it's collapsing towards the inside? Have trouble working the outside edge on that foot? Does your foot feel like it's crooked or not straight in the boot?

[nicksmission14 0]

my foot seems to feel ok in the boot not crooked, It feels wide though for sure in the ankle region.

I do have extreme trouble with the outside edge on that foot and I feel a collapse.. but the skate doesn't feel tight at those times either. It is weird though that my right foot is fine.

[shifter 0]

I suggest try some wax laces help stays in place plus the lace lock.

[kärpät 0]

Try putting the tounge straight and lace it up reall tight on the bottom. Problem solves!

[ktang 34]

Another way to phrase your problem: your leg above the ankle is too thin for the skate, so that the top of your skate has to curve around in the front in order to be tied tightly and give you support?

In the picture with the red circle, the skate fits the player better above the ankle, so the top of the skate doesn't have to curve around the front.

Your pictures at the beginning of the thread are taken by you looking down, and the top eyelets are closer together than the eyelets that are 3 rows down when tied up. The picture of your skate only shows how much the front of the skate curves around, even when not tied up.

Is that the problem?

[nicksmission14 0]

I'm using Graf Wax laces, I think the tongue is creating quite an issue... The problem is I can't get the damn thing to go straight. The right skate fine.... left skate I can only get it straight if I've been skating for about a half hour and the skate has softened a little bit.

Bingo ktang!! You nailed exactly what I was trying to say. That's why I believe it is a skate fitment issue.

[ktang 34]

If that's the problem, then maybe the skate is too deep for you. If it's only your right skate, maybe you need different skates for each foot, à la Wes Walz... :D

(There was a post of Wes Walz (Wild) with two different skates, but it might have been lost when MSH restored from the Apr 2 backups. I can't find it, but maybe I'm searching wrongly).

Anyways, I hope the new G3s fit both your feet. I think I can see why your skate laces would loosen; you're skating properly with a deep knee bend and ankle flexion, and your shin is going forwards. Because the top of your skate is bent around like that, it has to open up to let your shin go forwards.

[nicksmission14 0]

That makes alot of sense Kevin. What skates aren't as deep fitting these days? What exactly is the definition of "deep fitting"

[mew1838 0]

I the EXACT same tongue problem because of my higher arch on one foot, any solution for this really? tried tightening them, no help.

[DamnLocust 0]

Deep fitting skates are also sometimes called "high volume." They're basically designed for thicker feet and ankles (as well as lower shins). What you're looking for is a shallow fit with narrow ankles (and perhaps forefoot as well?) The Graf G3 Ultras/703s do sound like they may fit in that respect, but because they're low cut, they won't give as much ankle support up top, and you might have to crank on the laces anyway; If you do decide that you need different skates, look into these and the Vapors/Vectors (perhaps Mission XPs?). You may want to look into a C width skate as well, although I don't believe that will close up the ankle much, as the C is designated for the forefoot area. That is why the RBKs did not work for you: they are both wide and deep.

One way to make up space inside the boot (reduce volume/depth) is by using thicker insoles. Especially if you are pronating (foot/ankle turning in boot so that it is not parallel to the ice), Superfeet grey insoles offer arch support and will fill out the boot a bit. Shockdoctor insoles are thicker than superfeet (takes up more volume), and offer similar arch support (although most seem to prefer the superfeet).

Before buying the insoles, try using an old pair of insoles under your current insoles, and see if that does anything to help the fit. If it does, get a pair of superfeet or shockdoctors (usually $30-40) and see if it takes care of your issues. If it does, you may be able to get away with keeping your current skates.

[bekster 0]

hey nicksmission14,

i have (had) the exact same problem, too thin ankles / lower legs, so the top eyelets wrap around that part of my foot too much wich inhibits good forward flex.

The temporary solution would be to put tape or bandages around your ankles (INSIDE the skate) and lower legs to simulate fat ankles ;)

But sooner or later you need new skates! For me the perfect fitting skates were the RBK pumps! But since you said they didnt fit you i'd suggest to try the Vectors!

[Viking 1]

Since you seem to have no qualms about spending money on skates (more than I pay for my rent, nevermind my skates), what about getting custom ones with more ankle padding to fill out the space that your ankle isn't filling?... Or maybe seeing if there's something in that area that could be done to your current skates?

[nicksmission14 0]

That's what I'm thinking, Going the custom route. The problem is I want to be satisfied with the customs... I want to know that the person fitting me for the customs will get it right. I'll have to talk to the guys at my LHS and see what we can do.

[Aussie Joe 0]

Think of it from my point of view, thin ankles, so lace bite has always been a huge issue (causing numbness and pain in a particular pair of skates). On top of that I also have oddly sized feet. My left foot is a size 8 in Mission and Bauers, with the right foot a size 9! If I could score myself a custom pair of ONE90's or even XXXX's I would be able to skate on the best set of skates for me. At this point Im on a set of Mission L2.5's size 9. The tongue protection of the ice boot stops the lace bite issues but I still have to lace up the top lace fairly tight. My left skate is slightly loose, but I tighten it allot (pulling laces always out, not up) to compensate for the space. To date the L2.5's are the best balance I can find between foot to foot fit and performance.

Side Note:

According to most skating documentation I have (mainly Laura Stamm's Power Skating & Stan Mikita's Inside Hockey ) fully tightening the top 2-3 sets of eyelets is the incorrect way to lace skates. At this point I only think that method of lacing is for players with normally proportioned feet/ankles. Thats just the conclusion I have come to through experience at least.

[nicksmission14 0]

BTW, Kevin the more I thought about it your theory is dead on with my problem and how you described it is exactly what happens.

I agree with that Joe, and I think her theory is correct.. The problem is finding a skate that fits tight so that I don't have to crank the laces just to get the skate to have get any support at all in the ankle area. It's my feeling that you absolutely have to have a skate that supports your ankles and your foot in general. I mean that's why we spend money on top of the line skates.

I'll keep everyone updated on my situation and what I find.

Anyone have pictures of the "oversize ankle pads" option that bauer offers?