Largest possible Pitch and Cobra holders on 7.5D 8090s?

[Law Goalie 147]

My 8090s (7.5D) haven't arrived yet, and I'm hoping to order the holders before they get here.

I gather that the phenomenon of 'going up a size' in holders was largely a Custom/+ thing, but since they match with Pitch, and there isn't a heck of a lot of info on Graf holders going onto Bauer skates (usually the other way around), I figured I'd ask.

Yes, I am weird for wanting to switch LS2s for Cobras (it's usually the other way around), but then, I *am* a goalie who skates out, so brain damage is par for the course.

[Jordan 13]

Not to hijack the thread..but if the blade is profiled so that the working area of the blade has a desired radius, what is the difference if the blade is longer ?

[Law Goalie 147]

Pretty straightforward. 263mm of the diameter of a 13' radius circle on one hand, 272mm of the same circle on the other. I'm sure it's not quite so cut and dried in real world use, but a longer blade should always allow more of the theoretical radius to be 'in play.'

[Law Goalie 147]

...

Anyone?

I've seen the sizing charts, of course, but given the confusion in Sven's G70 for-sale thread, I don't think this is entirely self-evident.

[Tyler B 0]

id keep the light speeds... they are a much better holder than the cobras. The pitch is a great holder, mission has great steel as well so if your gonna switch you should get the pitch holder. Id stay with the lightspeeds anyways cause you being a goalie playing out i doubt that switching holders is gonna do really anything for you. For either the pitch or the cobras i belive you will have to drill the outsole as well cause they wont line up with the light speed holes from what i gathered from this site. And as far as sizing goes i have no idea.

[Law Goalie 147]

I have reasons - as have others - for wanting to use Cobras. If it's that important, I'll explain them.

Chief among them is the forward pitch, since I've been skating on forward-profiled goalie skates for ages. Tuuk anything makes me feel like I'm falling over backwards. I'd have these LS2s reprofiled, but they're used, and there isn't much steel left.

Secondary is impact-resistance. When I skate out, I block a hell of a lot of shots, and these LS2s are already hairline cracked. Cobra and Pitch are probably the toughest holders around.

Tertiary is sheer stiffness. Because I'm used to thicker steel and cowlings built like tanks, Tuuk anything feels spongey. Cobra and Pitch are reputed to be the stiffest holders around.

I don't care about drilling - I have a competent tech at my disposal. I know full well that nothing lines up with LS holes.

The ONLY thing I don't know is maximum sizing for the two potential replacement holders on the 8090 boots. My LHS didn't know offhand.

I would just wait until the 8090s arrived, but I would prefer to pre-order, as I said.

[shifter 0]

:S are you kidding me! The Ls2 are pretty stiff and even you there arent much steel left you can replace it and the holder and profile it to what ever pitch you like!

[Law Goalie 147]

Yes, of course, I'm kidding.

There are god knows how many threads about the advantages of Pitch steel and holders over LS, and a few very specific ones about why Cobras might be needed -- but nope, clearly, I'm just being pointlessly silly.

Why the hell would I pay to replace the holders and steel with the same hardware when I could swap it for something better *for me.* It's not like the 8090s are cardboard-lasted; they'll easily take another few holes.

[cbart 1]

Yes, of course, I'm kidding.

There are god knows how many threads about the advantages of Pitch steel and holders over LS, and a few very specific ones about why Cobras might be needed -- but nope, clearly, I'm just being pointlessly silly.

Why the hell would I pay to replace the holders and steel with the same hardware when I could swap it for something better *for me.* It's not like the 8090s are cardboard-lasted; they'll easily take another few holes.

L.G.

Remember you also have to option of the new Cobra holder as well (the one on the Ultra series is different than the older Cobra..(lighter and hollow on the inside I believe).

I am the opposite of you...I took the cobra's off and even with the Lightspeeds on my Ultra's I had to get a negative profile to offset the pitch!

FYI, had the tongues replaced on my G70's with East West Hockey Bauer tongues. Not as thick, give my feet more room...

Good luck with the 8090's!

[LkptTiger 1]

You mention the PITCH holders a lot. Any interest in them? I've heard great things about the PITCH holders, but not many positive reviews where the Cobras are concerned. If you're looking to get thrown to your toes, the +1 setting should do it for you.

Personally, I just mounted the PITCH holders on my new Vapor 10s (<3). Coming from Grafs, so I'm hoping the holders are going to get me forward enough...otherwise, I might have to slap some sliver-sized lifts on 'em. Coming from a 9' radius, I'm probably going to have to get 'em profiled, anyways...

[Cavs019 710]

There wont be more of the radius in play as you would have the exact same amount of steel on the ice. The only thing your doing by mounting a larger holder is skewing the balance points between your foot, the skate, and the columns of the holder.

[Jason16 0]

You can fit 280s onto 7.5s. There will be some excess hanging off the toe and heel but not a whole lot - if it bugs you, there is the option of dremelling the excess but no more than 3mm at most.

I've also had to drill 4 extra holes up front and 2 in the rear of the cobras to ensure more rivets are used to secure the holder. If the holes line up (I haven't done a LS to Cobra conversion, only a C+ to Cobra) or are close, you can do a combination RMS and zinc/copper set up to secure the holder. I wouldn't recommend it though, it's just been done because some of the holes had to be widened so I threw an RMS rather than try to spider a zinc or use a copper.

[Law Goalie 147]

Thank Jason - that's exactly what I was looking for. I'll get some 280s and fire up the dremel. I'm going to try to use RMS exclusively, so I can switch the boots between my cowlings and the holders (the 8090s are literally the only stock boots on the planet that could fit me).

Again, thanks -- I really appreciate the help.

cbart: Well, since we aparently have the same feet to a 'T', we had to differ somewhere or I was going to start asking my parents about a long-lost twin brother... :) Glad to hear that replacing the tongues bought you a little more depth; I'm guessing that with the thinner tongue and Cyclist's lacing, you're pretty much perfectly fitted in the G70s?

Lktp: I'm very interested in Pitch. I've been reading about them for ages now, and the Mission steel is apparently the best thing on the market, right up there with the RBK steel in the goalie blades I'm using now. I'm honestly not yet decided on the Pitch/Cobra issue... I think I'll go in and fondle them a bit more at the LHS before I order.

Cavs: Huh - interesting. I can't say I've completely understood your point. I gather it's that a longer holder doesn't necessarily mean more steel in contact with the ice, rather, that the only meaningful change is the way pressure on the boots translates down through the holders to the steel and the ice in turn. Have I got that right?

[Cavs019 710]

Yes, instead of having the "columns" directly below the ball of your foot and your heel (the "power" points), you will be off balance to a degree.

[cbart 1]

Thank Jason - that's exactly what I was looking for. I'll get some 280s and fire up the dremel. I'm going to try to use RMS exclusively, so I can switch the boots between my cowlings and the holders (the 8090s are literally the only stock boots on the planet that could fit me).

Again, thanks -- I really appreciate the help.

cbart: Well, since we aparently have the same feet to a 'T', we had to differ somewhere or I was going to start asking my parents about a long-lost twin brother... :) Glad to hear that replacing the tongues bought you a little more depth; I'm guessing that with the thinner tongue and Cyclist's lacing, you're pretty much perfectly fitted in the G70s?

Lktp: I'm very interested in Pitch. I've been reading about them for ages now, and the Mission steel is apparently the best thing on the market, right up there with the RBK steel in the goalie blades I'm using now. I'm honestly not yet decided on the Pitch/Cobra issue... I think I'll go in and fondle them a bit more at the LHS before I order.

Cavs: Huh - interesting. I can't say I've completely understood your point. I gather it's that a longer holder doesn't necessarily mean more steel in contact with the ice, rather, that the only meaningful change is the way pressure on the boots translates down through the holders to the steel and the ice in turn. Have I got that right?

LG,

Grew up in Custom Plus, now on Lightspeeds...I used to use heel lifts with my Lightspeeds till I got the G70's..

Don't have to use the cyclist lacing with the new tongues!

[Hockeydog 8]

Don't have to use the cyclist lacing with the new tongues!

Can you explain this type of lacing?

[Law Goalie 147]

Cyclist's Lacing.

edit: though Fieggen's example ends with a bow on one side of the ankle, it's possible to end this lacing with a lace-lock, and frankly, very advantageous. The one problem with this method is that it doesn't stay all that tight, so locking off at the top is very helpful.

[Hockeydog 8]

Thanks Law Goalie ! I have been to Ian's site, should have known to look there!! I think I used to lace my running shoes like this. Looks like a good lacing for borderline skate volume issues.

[Law Goalie 147]

Yep, it's perfect for that. The only real issue, as I said, is that it's hard to tighten and doesn't hold very well, but ending with a lace-lock takes care of that.