2008 Washington Capitals thread

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

To me it looks like Ouellet is carrying the puck and Vinny is skating along side him, just as Ouellet loses the puck, Vinny gets hit. It looks like Cooke does turn, to put his shoulder into Vinny. Again, I dont see any intent to injury but I do see interference and MAYBE a cheap shot(I havent made up my mind about that). Cooke could have avoided the hit, seemed like he wanted to pinball them while he had a shot.

With regards to it being cheap, I definately disagree, it's a run of the mill thing that happens multiple times in every game. The result is why you are questioning the validity of the hit. It sucks that he is injured, but there was clearly no intent to injure or to even hit him hard and late.

If it's cheap shots to be looked at, then look no further than torts, after having peterson (I think that was his name, the ginger who took on bradley in the last 15 seconds) sent off the ice as the lightning had 5 on when they were on the PK, torts sends him back out to fight after the whistle goes.

That will likely land a fine and/or suspension on the team of some nature.

The refs told him, and escorted him to the bench, then he is back on, could be an expensive tantrum for fonzie

[hockeysc23 0]

To me it looks like Ouellet is carrying the puck and Vinny is skating along side him, just as Ouellet loses the puck, Vinny gets hit. It looks like Cooke does turn, to put his shoulder into Vinny. Again, I dont see any intent to injury but I do see interference and MAYBE a cheap shot(I havent made up my mind about that). Cooke could have avoided the hit, seemed like he wanted to pinball them while he had a shot.

With regards to it being cheap, I definately disagree, it's a run of the mill thing that happens multiple times in every game. The result is why you are questioning the validity of the hit. It sucks that he is injured, but there was clearly no intent to injure or to even hit him hard and late.

If it's cheap shots to be looked at, then look no further than torts, after having peterson (I think that was his name, the ginger who took on bradley in the last 15 seconds) sent off the ice as the lightning had 5 on when they were on the PK, torts sends him back out to fight after the whistle goes.

That will likely land a fine and/or suspension on the team of some nature.

The refs told him, and escorted him to the bench, then he is back on, could be an expensive tantrum for fonzie

Exactly! Sorry the bump by Cooke wasn't a cheap shot. The injury was caused by Vinny's own teammate not to mention 220lbs landing right on his shoulder. Bad injury hope he gets better but it was not a cheap shot.

Torts though tried to circumvent the refs just to start a fight with a team that actually has playoff hopes. They were just too scared to challenge Brash so they go after Brads.

[TBLfan 25]

Hitting a guy without the puck, especially if he isn't looking is a cheap shot. Injury or no injury.

You dont really know the intent of the line change. It was Tarnasky, and yes he can fight but he can also defend hit teammates if liberties are taken against the team.

Tortorella seems to have agreed with the message sent on the ice physically, which is a shock... but again that doesnt say that he sent them out to handle the situation.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Hitting a guy without the puck, especially if he isn't looking is a cheap shot. Injury or no injury.

You dont really know the intent of the line change. It was Tarnasky, and yes he can fight but he can also defend hit teammates if liberties are taken against the team.

Tortorella seems to have agreed with the message sent on the ice physically, which is a shock... but again that doesnt say that he sent them out to handle the situation.

In a game situation, the puck was at Vinnys feet. It was not a cheap or dirty shot. We will definately have to agree to disagree on that.

I consider ovechkin putting briere into the bench opening a dirty shot, or whitney hitting ovey in the nuts with his stick dirty, but the cooke/vinny thing was just a routine play, that had an unfortunate outcome.

As for the intent of the line change. The ref was about to drop the puck, spotted too many men on tampas side, stopped, sent tarnasky off the ice, dropped the puck, and then tarnasky came back over.

It was a stupid move for someone fighting for their job. Torts could be fined, suspended and fired by the end of the week!!!

[TBLfan 25]

The puck wasnt in Vinnys feet, Ouellet had the puck when the hit was initiated. Ouellet lost the puck just before the check was finished. I have no issue with someone getting hit when the puck is in their feet. But if someone is skating with the puck besides you and you get blindsided, wouldnt you be pissed?

[hockeysc23 0]

The puck wasnt in Vinnys feet, Ouellet had the puck when the hit was initiated. Ouellet lost the puck just before the check was finished. I have no issue with someone getting hit when the puck is in their feet. But if someone is skating with the puck besides you and you get blindsided, wouldnt you be pissed?

Did you watch the youtube of it? the puck was at Vinny's feet. Did he know the puck was right next to him probably not.

Like it was said before if there was no injury this wouldn't even be an issue.

[dangle 0]

But if someone is skating with the puck besides you and you get blindsided, wouldnt you be pissed?

My stand on this...

Watch Cooke before, during and after the hit. CLEARLY Cooke was playing the puck the whole entire time. The puck is neither in control by Vinny or Ouellet at the time of the hit. Cooke was going to the puck, Vinny was turning away from Ouellet. Vinny DID see cooke right before the hit, I dont think Cooke was even meaning to hit Vinny but to "bump" him off the puck, but Vinny turned into Cooke and Cooke shrugged his shoulder. Even after the "hit", Cooke is still looking to play the puck.

I would not call it a dirty hit by any stretch of the imagination.

Edit: Vinny's fall is quite awkward which may have had some cause to the injury, I dont know

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

OK, I looked at the video I linked about 5 times, from the 53 to about 65 seconds.

Oullet has the puck coming up the boards. Cooke is skating to him, Vinny skating along side him and turns into cooke.

If you call it dirty, then you are being biased*

*I am frequently biased, and have no problem admitting it :)

[hockeysc23 0]

OK, I looked at the video I linked about 5 times, from the 53 to about 65 seconds.

Oullet has the puck coming up the boards. Cooke is skating to him, Vinny skating along side him and turns into cooke.

If you call it dirty, then you are being biased*

*I am frequently biased, and have no problem admitting it :)

The only problem with that play was that Vinny got hurt. Had that not happened this wouldn't be an issue.

That being said I don't think any Caps Fan wanted to see him hurt and we wish him a quick recovery.

[TBLfan 25]

The injury happened when Vinny braced himself from the fall.

Look at the replay and watch Ouellet, Ouellet clearly had the puck... Even if Cooke is playing the puck you cannot go through another player to get the puck.

You have to look at the whole play. If you look at where the puck is you can easily be fooled to where exactly it is, Watch Ouellet and his stick work, the puck wasn't IN Vinny's feet it was at least a few inches to the outside and in front of Vinnys feet, AND on Ouellet's stick.

I have no doubt that the injury was unintentional and that Caps fans appreciate star players as other fans appreciate their star players, that's not the issue.

[dangle 0]

I definitely didn't want to see Vinny hurt. It sucked to see.

I guess the thing is... It takes us viewers many many times of looking at the replay and analyzing it to form an opinion about the play. The refs have to make a judgement call from watching this at full speed.

I think the refs used their best judgement to make the call and it wasn't a bad call (or non call in this case) IMO.

It definitely wasn't dirty though

[TBLfan 25]

To me, before I saw the replay(based on the stick flying up in the air and the result of the collision) I thought Cooke went high with the elbow. Most of the time when you see something like that you get a roughing call, or a interference(being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck). Smaby's hold was BS, they only showed one angle of replay but based on that his hands never left his stick, the Caps player kept him off with his right arm extended and stumbled.

But same thing happened against Carolina the game before, some ridiculous calls against the Canes early on. Before they started diving. The officiating definitely needs to be looked at, in my opinion. Too many games seem to be called one sided, I've seen it for and against the Lightning this season. Seen it in more than half of the games this season, no matter whos playing.

[dangle 0]

^^^ i dont disagree with you, i was only reffering to this specific play :)

[hockeysc23 0]

To me, before I saw the replay(based on the stick flying up in the air and the result of the collision) I thought Cooke went high with the elbow. Most of the time when you see something like that you get a roughing call, or a interference(being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck). Smaby's hold was BS, they only showed one angle of replay but based on that his hands never left his stick, the Caps player kept him off with his right arm extended and stumbled.

But same thing happened against Carolina the game before, some ridiculous calls against the Canes early on. Before they started diving. The officiating definitely needs to be looked at, in my opinion. Too many games seem to be called one sided, I've seen it for and against the Lightning this season. Seen it in more than half of the games this season, no matter whos playing.

Based on that I am curious what a Tampa Bay's fan thought of the no-goal call.

[TBLfan 25]

Yeah, i reworded it... kind of came off wrong there. Just based on the play and looking further at the replay I see a clear intereference, which can be claimed as a dirty being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck(obviously putting a shoulder into someone with the puck isnt dirty).

Man Vinny has been unlucky the past two games. Last game he got highsticked in front of the net, no call. Then Vinny slashed(small motion slash, not a two handed baseball swing) to his thigh, Wesley falls like a sack of potatos, grasping at his shin.

To me, before I saw the replay(based on the stick flying up in the air and the result of the collision) I thought Cooke went high with the elbow. Most of the time when you see something like that you get a roughing call, or a interference(being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck). Smaby's hold was BS, they only showed one angle of replay but based on that his hands never left his stick, the Caps player kept him off with his right arm extended and stumbled.

But same thing happened against Carolina the game before, some ridiculous calls against the Canes early on. Before they started diving. The officiating definitely needs to be looked at, in my opinion. Too many games seem to be called one sided, I've seen it for and against the Lightning this season. Seen it in more than half of the games this season, no matter whos playing.

Based on that I am curious what a Tampa Bay's fan thought of the no-goal call.

It seems like a good call but it could go either way. I've seen worse things not called.

[hockeysc23 0]

Yeah, i reworded it... kind of came off wrong there. Just based on the play and looking further at the replay I see a clear intereference, which can be claimed as a dirty being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck(obviously putting a shoulder into someone with the puck isnt dirty).

Man Vinny has been unlucky the past two games. Last game he got highsticked in front of the net, no call. Then Vinny slashed(small motion slash, not a two handed baseball swing) to his thigh, Wesley falls like a sack of potatos, grasping at his shin.

To me, before I saw the replay(based on the stick flying up in the air and the result of the collision) I thought Cooke went high with the elbow. Most of the time when you see something like that you get a roughing call, or a interference(being that Vinny didnt have possession of the puck). Smaby's hold was BS, they only showed one angle of replay but based on that his hands never left his stick, the Caps player kept him off with his right arm extended and stumbled.

But same thing happened against Carolina the game before, some ridiculous calls against the Canes early on. Before they started diving. The officiating definitely needs to be looked at, in my opinion. Too many games seem to be called one sided, I've seen it for and against the Lightning this season. Seen it in more than half of the games this season, no matter whos playing.

Based on that I am curious what a Tampa Bay's fan thought of the no-goal call.

It seems like a good call but it could go either way. I've seen worse things not called.

I guess my curiosity, trying to leave my bias out of it, is that you either need to call interference on Flash, or it should be a goal. I don't know of any rules that say you can just void the goal.

Also Ramo (SP?) had time to reset and make a play. Either way he was really good last night.

[chippa13 1844]

Cooke throwing a questionable hit and then hiding from retribution? Shocking.

[hockeysc23 0]

Cooke throwing a questionable hit and then hiding from retribution? Shocking.

As always the voice of reason a little late to the argument ... and with wrong info AGAIN <_<

[chippa13 1844]

Cooke throwing a questionable hit and then hiding from retribution? Shocking.

As always the voice of reason a little late to the argument ... and with wrong info AGAIN <_<

Sorry, I forgot that Cooke is the model of how to play the game. I wonder why he hasn't won the Lady Byng yet.

[TBLfan 25]

I guess my curiosity, trying to leave my bias out of it, is that you either need to call interference on Flash, or it should be a goal. I don't know of any rules that say you can just void the goal.

Also Ramo (SP?) had time to reset and make a play. Either way he was really good last night.

There are three choices in the NHL: No call, goalie interference penalty and no goal or goalie interference no goal, no penalty. The way I saw it was that Ramo(you spelled it right ;) ) was interfered with and luckily made the first save... The second save was difficult, but Ramo had no shot at it because he was pushed out farther. BUT I think the ref was looking at it this way. Ramo gets knocked into by his own player, via a push from a Caps player, while a shot is being taken... That is goalie interference. The rebound from that shot(in which Ramo was interferred with) was put in the net before Ramo could re-establish his footing/position.

In my opinion, fighting for position in-front of the net should be allowed, that holds the no penalty. The contact was to the defenseman directy, contact to Ramo in-directly.

[chippa13 1844]

I've watched that replay a few times now. I say the call was correct. Interesting that the NHL rulebook doesn't have this situation in the reference tables for goalie interference. You can be they add it in for next year.

[hockeysc23 0]

Well the call wasn't correct though.

There is no way you can call interference without calling a penalty on Flash. IF there is please someone point it out in a rule book (this is a discussion carried over from the caps messageboard).

In my opinion you either call interference on Flash (weak call esp if you know how often flash gets knocked off his skates you would know he cannot knock others over :) ) or you say it was a goal because Ramo had time to reset.

Either way shouldn't it have at least been looked at upstairs in the booth? Seems something of that importance would at least be looked at.

*Once again probably capitals bias and my lack of nhl rules.

[chippa13 1844]

Well the call wasn't correct though.

There is no way you can call interference without calling a penalty on Flash. IF there is please someone point it out in a rule book (this is a discussion carried over from the caps messageboard).

In my opinion you either call interference on Flash (weak call esp if you know how often flash gets knocked off his skates you would know he cannot knock others over :) ) or you say it was a goal because Ramo had time to reset.

Either way shouldn't it have at least been looked at upstairs in the booth? Seems something of that importance would at least be looked at.

*Once again probably capitals bias and my lack of nhl rules.

http://www.nhl.com/ext/0708rules.pdf

Follow the link and go to page 168 of the .pdf (it is actually page 158 of the rulebook). There are a number of situations listed where a goal can be disallowed due to interference with the goaltender without a penalty being called.

As far as I know, goalie interference is not something that can be reviewed.

[killthepoodle 0]

As far as the vinny hit goes- I quote Vinny "No puck.....no penalty?"

Cooke is a douche.

[killthepoodle 0]

Pic courtesy of TBLFAN:

I really want to hear what Chadd and CapsFan say about this.....last night they said this:

killthepoodle: Cooke might have taken a liberty with Vinny

[9:39pm] killthepoodle: you cant let that shit go unpunished

[9:39pm] CapsFan: it was clean

[9:40pm] Chadd: where vinny got hurt? there was nothing there

[9:40pm] killthepoodle: Not what the announcers, both wash and tb, were saying

[9:40pm] Chadd: and I don't like cooke

[9:40pm] CapsFan: Ouellet hurt him more that cooke did

[9:40pm] Chadd: Never heard the caps guys say that and I had the game on

[9:41pm] killthepoodle: radio or tv?

[9:41pm] CapsFan: tv