Dynasty?

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

Are we ever going to see a dynasty like the Canadians of the 70's or Islanders or Oilers of the 80's where they string together consecutive cup wins and final appearances? Personally I don't really every think we will see that again and I wish I could have been alive to see those playoff series cause they probably had to be some of the greatest ever played, also I think that those playoff runs and dynasty teams along with players like Gretzky and later Lemieux posting up record setting seasons was what made hockey prosper

[Chadd 916]

No, the cap will prevent it.

[hunterphfr 12]

No, the cap will prevent it.

May as well lock this thread Chad said all that needs to be said.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

No, the cap will prevent it.

In the NFL, people thought the cap and the parity that mostly resulted would eliminate dynasties like the 80's 49ers and 90's Cowboys. Yet the Patriots have to be considered pretty darn close to a dynasty if not one outright, even if they didn't win the last two Super Bowls. If Manning doesn't squirt out of the hands of a bunch of Patriots, and then Terrell doesn't make that miraculous grab, I don't think many would blink at calling the Patriots a dynasty.

[Chadd 916]

No, the cap will prevent it.

In the NFL, people thought the cap and the parity that mostly resulted would eliminate dynasties like the 80's 49ers and 90's Cowboys. Yet the Patriots have to be considered pretty darn close to a dynasty if not one outright, even if they didn't win the last two Super Bowls. If Manning doesn't squirt out of the hands of a bunch of Patriots, and then Terrell doesn't make that miraculous grab, I don't think many would blink at calling the Patriots a dynasty.

You can't rig NHL contracts like you can in the NFL. The NHL cap is far more restrictive and the contracts are guaranteed, also unlike the NFL. The Patriots have also done it with a constantly changing cast. Dynasties usually are the result of a large group of players staying together for a numebr of years. Wranchise has been very good for a number of years, the amount of turnover is certainly not typical of the 49er or Cowboy teams of the 80s and 90s.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

You can't rig NHL contracts like you can in the NFL. The NHL cap is far more restrictive and the contracts are guaranteed, also unlike the NFL.

True enough. However, before the Patriots began their run, lots of pundits were talking about how the NFL had been ruined with cap-induced parity and subsequent mediocrity. Then the Patriots blew that argument apart.

The Patriots have also done it with a constantly changing cast. Dynasties usually are the result of a large group of players staying together for a numebr of years. Wranchise has been very good for a number of years, the amount of turnover is certainly not typical of the 49er or Cowboy teams of the 80s and 90s.

Not sure what "wranchise" is (typo ?) but the fact that the Pats have done it with a constantly changing cast makes their accomplishment even more impressive and remarkable. Even if your definition of "dynasty" specifies a core of players staying together for an extended period of time (and mine doesn't), a cap doesn't make that impossible ... but it does make it harder and more incumbent on good management. The Patriots haven't relied on cap tricks like cutting players with "guaranteed" contracts the way other teams have. When they started their run, they built their team around low-cost free agents and had one of the lowest payrolls in the league. That has changed over the last few years, but there's no reason the same principles of good scouting and shrewd management can't be successful in a different cap environment.

The Red Wings have been very, very good for a long period of time. Personally, I wouldn't be betting against that changing anytime soon, even with a cap now in the landscape.

[Chadd 916]

yeah, typos have been terrible today and after having my pupils dilated, I can't proofread anything. I was referring to the Pats. I do agree that any "dynasty" in the current system would be solely to scouting and free agent signings much more so than just keeping the same productive core and swapping out complimentary players.

[avernus78 0]

What do you guys think about the Penguins? They have some really great talent on that team. If they can keep Hossa around after this season they will have two very strong lines. Although I hear Boston might leverage for him during the off season.

I am not sure what the contract status is on Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

What do you guys think about the Penguins? They have some really great talent on that team. If they can keep Hossa around after this season they will have two very strong lines. Although I hear Boston might leverage for him during the off season.

I am not sure what the contract status is on Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.

Obviously they have some great young players, but that only happened because they were very crappy for a few years *and* the ping-pong balls fell their way. Drafting Crosby and Malkin were no-brainers, but the team hasn't accomplished much yet. Do they have the management needed to draft and build around a few good blocks, over an extended period of time and in the face of a cap ? That's the real question.

[hockechamp14 0]

What do you guys think about the Penguins? They have some really great talent on that team. If they can keep Hossa around after this season they will have two very strong lines. Although I hear Boston might leverage for him during the off season.

I am not sure what the contract status is on Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.

Obviously they have some great young players, but that only happened because they were very crappy for a few years *and* the ping-pong balls fell their way. Drafting Crosby and Malkin were no-brainers, but the team hasn't accomplished much yet. Do they have the management needed to draft and build around a few good blocks, over an extended period of time and in the face of a cap ? That's the real question.

Exactly... are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

[avernus78 0]

The reason I pick them is because they are young and they can build that team chemistry. No team in the league has the youth and talent that they possess (remember youth being the big one).

Just for arguments sake, if you look at the Edmonton Oilers teams of the 80's look at how young that team was. Gretzky, Messier and Fuhr were all around the same age. They all came to their respective primes around the same time. Don't you think that Crosby, Malkin and Fleury could do the same a few years from now? Don't you see a lot of similarities?

If you guys don't think the Pens can build a dynasty who would you pick?

[Chadd 916]

The reason I pick them is because they are young and they can build that team chemistry. No team in the league has the youth and talent that they possess (remember youth being the big one).

Just for arguments sake, if you look at the Edmonton Oilers teams of the 80's look at how young that team was. Gretzky, Messier and Fuhr were all around the same age. They all came to their respective primes around the same time. Don't you think that Crosby, Malkin and Fleury could do the same a few years from now? Don't you see a lot of similarities?

If you guys don't think the Pens can build a dynasty who would you pick?

It remains to be seen if the Pens can fill in the holes to make a strong lineup. That's the real key to a dynasty, having good role players in addition to the stars. Having stars is a good thing but you really need team depth to win in the NHL and right now, the Penguins don't have that.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Exactly... are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

Thats my biggest problem with the caps. McPhee has always made good trades, but look at his draft record.

There is not one player taken outside the second round on the caps active roster. Pettinger was a 2nd rounder and is now grinding it out in Vancouver.

The caps are going to have to gear up for a solid cup run in the next year or two, because after that, they will probably make the playoffs, but never be a true contender because they can't retool without high picks, and with the cap, they can't overpay for proven free agents.

[Chadd 916]

Exactly... are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

Thats my biggest problem with the caps. McPhee has always made good trades, but look at his draft record.

There is not one player taken outside the second round on the caps active roster. Pettinger was a 2nd rounder and is now grinding it out in Vancouver.

The caps are going to have to gear up for a solid cup run in the next year or two, because after that, they will probably make the playoffs, but never be a true contender because they can't retool without high picks, and with the cap, they can't overpay for proven free agents.

Sometimes GMs play it too safe at the draft. Picking guys who will be solid but never taking one of those high risk/reward type players. That's why the Caps rarely have any of their picks fail completely, but never have anyone that comes out of nowhere to surprise everyone.

[chippa13 1844]

What do you guys think about the Penguins? They have some really great talent on that team. If they can keep Hossa around after this season they will have two very strong lines. Although I hear Boston might leverage for him during the off season.

I am not sure what the contract status is on Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.

Obviously they have some great young players, but that only happened because they were very crappy for a few years *and* the ping-pong balls fell their way. Drafting Crosby and Malkin were no-brainers, but the team hasn't accomplished much yet. Do they have the management needed to draft and build around a few good blocks, over an extended period of time and in the face of a cap ? That's the real question.

Exactly... are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

Datsyuk - 6th round, 171st overall

Zetterberg - 7th round, 210th overall

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Thats his point. The pens are good now because they got a lot of high picks, so get the prime talent. When they are consistently making the playoffs, their picks will be lower. Will they still be able to convert those lower picks to successful NHLers, like the wings do. They rarely have a high first round pick, but because of their scouting, always have the lines stocked with gamers.

The caps are going to be screwed if they make a run at the playoffs for a few years, because they don't have the success rate beyond the first round that other teams had.

Will pitt be the same when their picks are in the 20-25 range rather than the 1-5 range

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

There is no way to tell ya know. I totally agree with you about the Wings and how they consistently pick gamers which not to many teams are good at doing. Zetterberg was 210th overall and Datsyuk was 171st overall and look at them now 2 really great scoring threats that any coach would love to have.

[chippa13 1844]

Thats his point. The pens are good now because they got a lot of high picks, so get the prime talent. When they are consistently making the playoffs, their picks will be lower. Will they still be able to convert those lower picks to successful NHLers, like the wings do. They rarely have a high first round pick, but because of their scouting, always have the lines stocked with gamers.

The caps are going to be screwed if they make a run at the playoffs for a few years, because they don't have the success rate beyond the first round that other teams had.

Will pitt be the same when their picks are in the 20-25 range rather than the 1-5 range

I believe his point was very clear, that there are not Datsyuk/Zetterberg type players available outside of the top 5 picks. A point that was wrong.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Thats his point. The pens are good now because they got a lot of high picks, so get the prime talent. When they are consistently making the playoffs, their picks will be lower. Will they still be able to convert those lower picks to successful NHLers, like the wings do. They rarely have a high first round pick, but because of their scouting, always have the lines stocked with gamers.

The caps are going to be screwed if they make a run at the playoffs for a few years, because they don't have the success rate beyond the first round that other teams had.

Will pitt be the same when their picks are in the 20-25 range rather than the 1-5 range

I believe his point was very clear, that there are not Datsyuk/Zetterberg type players available outside of the top 5 picks. A point that was wrong.

No, his point was, would the pens have the scouting to be able to pick a player like zetterberg with a later pick, that their current success was thanks to a plethora of high first round picks, when players are more of a sure thing.

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

You hit the nail on the head. The Penguins scouting has yet to be tested since the past couple of seasons they have had relatively high drafts. The Red Wings have all ways been finishing near the top and had to develop great scouting which we all know they have done since they seem to all ways be great without all of their veterans

[Chadd 916]

I believe his point was very clear, that there are not Datsyuk/Zetterberg type players available outside of the top 5 picks. A point that was wrong.

I have no idea how you got that out of his post.

You hit the nail on the head. The Penguins scouting has yet to be tested since the past couple of seasons they have had relatively high drafts.

Not true, the Pens had more than just first round picks. What have they done with those later round picks that they had?

[chippa13 1844]

are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Talbot

Penguins' 8th round choice ( 234th overall) in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft.

Kennedy

Pittsburgh Penguins' 4th round choice ( 99th overall) in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft.

Minard- Not even sure if he was drafted can't find that info on nhl.com

Taffe was drafted by the blues in 2000

Letang is a third round (62nd overall) Penguins pick

Goligoski

Pittsburgh Penguins' 2nd round choice ( 61st overall) in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft.

Malone

Pittsburgh Penguins' 2nd round choice ( 61st overall) in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft.

Scuderi

Drafted by the Penguins in the fifth round (134th overall) in the 1998 Entry Draft

Thats some of the draft picks that are in the line up on a nightly basis right now for the pens..

[kosydar 0]

are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

Jesus you're dense. I don't know what is going to come first, you being right or you admitting you're wrong. My money is on neither.

[Chadd 916]

Thats some of the draft picks that are in the line up on a nightly basis right now for the pens..

I'll give you Malone and Letang looks like he has potential. The others are third line talent, bottom defense pairing at best. Just because they're playing doesn't mean the team drafted well. I guess a big part of it would be to compare who was available at the time and who they picked. That's a lot more work than I want to put into this discussion, so I'll leave it there.