Dynasty?

[chippa13 1844]

are the penguins going to be able to pull guys like datsyuk and zetterburg from the draft when they don't pick in the top 5?

Jesus you're dense. I don't know what is going to come first, you being right or you admitting you're wrong. My money is on neither.

He asked what I saw and I posted the statement that I had responded to. I'm sorry if this has upset you so. Please, accept my heartfelt apologies. If there is anything I can do to make it up to you, please let me know. Not having your approval is just tearing me up inside. I've instructed my coworkers to take my belt and shoelaces for the time being.

[Chadd 916]

Grow up

[Fire0nIce228 1]

True Chadd way too much work to really get into it. My point was, every team needs 3rd/4th liners that can get their respective roles/jobs done.

Talbot is there for energy and penalty killing, occasional spark to the team. Can't argue that he doesnt provide exactly what he is asked to.

Scuderi is there to be a solid D. He doesnt put up points but he does play pretty good defensive defenseman hockey.

And true, the rest of the guys I named are just 3rd/4th liners, but they're all solid. The Pens havn't drafted any superstars in late rounds, but they arn't doing too bad in my opinion with the late round or mid round picks.

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

My post about the Penguins was to be meant that their late draft picks are not going to be top line guys, a point to which Chadd already discussed

[Jason Harris 31]

I think an interesting questions is which teams have been good at finding gems in the later rounds, which I would qualify as being third round or greater. The Red Wings have been excellent, which is why they've been a contending team for nearly all of the past 12 years. The Avs have had moderate success with Hejduk in the 4th round and Svatos in the 7th, but the Wings seem to be more consistent.

Any other teams?

[Chadd 916]

I think an interesting questions is which teams have been good at finding gems in the later rounds, which I would qualify as being third round or greater. The Red Wings have been excellent, which is why they've been a contending team for nearly all of the past 12 years. The Avs have had moderate success with Hejduk in the 4th round and Svatos in the 7th, but the Wings seem to be more consistent.

Any other teams?

Svatos was a seventh round pick

Tim Thomas was the 217th pick the year Drury and Hejduk were drafted as well.

Ottawa pick:

Alfie #133 in '94, that was in the sixth round

Sami Salo #239 in '96

Plus a number of solid contributors for them and other teams over the years like Brooks Laich, Christoph Schubert

Devils in 90 picked:

Modry and Zelepukin both after the 178th pick.

and in other years:

Stefan Yelle at 186, Steve Sullivan at #233, Chris Mason at #122, Willie Mitchell at #199,

From a team building perspective the Blackhawks had very productive, if not stellar, drafts in 2002 and 2003. Even the guys they traded away brought in something that helped the team.

[avernus78 0]

I still think the Pens have the best shot. Even though the Red Wings have had great late round picks, they have yet to establish a dynasty. So I must ask the question if not the Pens then who? I have yet to see anyone else suggest another team.

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not sure you can count Thomas as a late round gem since he never did anything with the organization that drafted him.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I'm not sure you can count Thomas as a late round gem since he never did anything with the organization that drafted him.

I don't think that really matters though. What if Ted Ruth goes on to become a top d-man in columbus. Does he not count as a 2nd round gem because columbus didn't draft him.

Trades happen all the time, and when you are a buyer, you generally give up prospects.

Thomas was drafted 217th, which is a late round. And was an all star this year.

I would say that qualifies as late round gem, since he has a couple of seasons starting now

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not sure you can count Thomas as a late round gem since he never did anything with the organization that drafted him.

I don't think that really matters though. What if Ted Ruth goes on to become a top d-man in columbus. Does he not count as a 2nd round gem because columbus didn't draft him.

Trades happen all the time, and when you are a buyer, you generally give up prospects.

Thomas was drafted 217th, which is a late round. And was an all star this year.

I would say that qualifies as late round gem, since he has a couple of seasons starting now

Was Ruth traded or has he bounced around the minors and Euro leagues for the better part of a decade before getting an outside shot with a minor league, free agent contract?

[Chadd 916]

I'm not sure you can count Thomas as a late round gem since he never did anything with the organization that drafted him.

I don't think that really matters though. What if Ted Ruth goes on to become a top d-man in columbus. Does he not count as a 2nd round gem because columbus didn't draft him.

Trades happen all the time, and when you are a buyer, you generally give up prospects.

Thomas was drafted 217th, which is a late round. And was an all star this year.

I would say that qualifies as late round gem, since he has a couple of seasons starting now

Was Ruth traded or has he bounced around the minors and Euro leagues for the better part of a decade before getting an outside shot with a minor league, free agent contract?

Who is to blame, the player or the team that drafted him? The scouts saw something in his game that eventually came around. Regardless of the time spent in Europe or the minor leagues, the team that drafted him saw something and that's what you want in your scouts. The ability to see talent and see the potential. It's up to the organization and the player to fully develop that talent.

For what it's worth Belfour and Adam Oates were undrafted. Talk about everyone missing the boat.

[epstud74 24]

I'm not sure you can count Thomas as a late round gem since he never did anything with the organization that drafted him.

I don't think that really matters though. What if Ted Ruth goes on to become a top d-man in columbus. Does he not count as a 2nd round gem because columbus didn't draft him.

Trades happen all the time, and when you are a buyer, you generally give up prospects.

Thomas was drafted 217th, which is a late round. And was an all star this year.

I would say that qualifies as late round gem, since he has a couple of seasons starting now

Was Ruth traded or has he bounced around the minors and Euro leagues for the better part of a decade before getting an outside shot with a minor league, free agent contract?

Who is to blame, the player or the team that drafted him? The scouts saw something in his game that eventually came around. Regardless of the time spent in Europe or the minor leagues, the team that drafted him saw something and that's what you want in your scouts. The ability to see talent and see the potential. It's up to the organization and the player to fully develop that talent.

For what it's worth Belfour and Adam Oates were undrafted. Talk about everyone missing the boat.

Regarding Belfour and Oates..NHL scouting probably wasnt as thorough and sophisticated as it is now. Belfour had a nice, long career, but I thought he was overrated..Just my worthless two cents. I thought Oates was awesome in St. Louis and Boston.

As for a Dynasty..with 20+ teams in the NHL and the longer season, it probably is a bit more difficult these days to win cups like the Habs did in the 50s and 70s.

[Chadd 916]

Regarding Belfour and Oates..NHL scouting probably wasnt as thorough and sophisticated as it is now. Belfour had a nice, long career, but I thought he was overrated..Just my worthless two cents. I thought Oates was awesome in St. Louis and Boston.

Belfour was second only to Roy for a big part of his career.

[chippa13 1844]

Back when Oates went undrafted NHL scouts weren't all over the college game like they are today. With Oates' game it isn't a total shock that scouts missed himback then A pure passer, it isn't as easy to put up the numbers that make people want to go take a look at you. Assists just aren't as sexy and Oates wasn't playing at a college that was a pro factory. By the time Belfour had his stellar season at UND he was 21 years old, already past his draft years.

Regarding Belfour and Oates..NHL scouting probably wasnt as thorough and sophisticated as it is now. Belfour had a nice, long career, but I thought he was overrated..Just my worthless two cents. I thought Oates was awesome in St. Louis and Boston.

Belfour was second only to Roy for a big part of his career.

But first when it comes to proferred bribes.

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

Who cares if he wasn't drafted because he was 21 supposedly past his draft years, look at some of the goalies that play the game today and how old they were when they got the starting nod because it really doesn't matter where you get drafted because a low draft pick could do just as much in the NHL as a high draft pick and lets look at some of these.

Ryan Miller drafted in 99 but played 3 seasons at Michigan State was 138th overall and he was 21 when he actually saw action between the pipes and didn't even get the starting nod until he was 24 and if I am not mistaken Belfour was the same age when he got the starting nod too for Chicago

Another goalie Patrick Lalime was drafted at 19 156th overall but never saw action until he was 22 and didn't even get the starting job until he was in Ottawa 4 years later so if my math is correct he was 26 years old. Or how about Hasek was drafted when he was 18 199th overall but didn't even see action in the NHL until he was 25 and didn't even get the starting job in Buffalo until he was 28

How about another one Tim Thomas was 20 when he was drafted 217th overall and didn't even see action until he was 28 and received the starting job at 32.

These goalies are all late round gems most of them didn't even receive action until they were way older than Belfour was when he first saw his...So what is your point.

[epstud74 24]

Regarding Belfour and Oates..NHL scouting probably wasnt as thorough and sophisticated as it is now. Belfour had a nice, long career, but I thought he was overrated..Just my worthless two cents. I thought Oates was awesome in St. Louis and Boston.

Belfour was second only to Roy for a big part of his career.

I'm a Roy fan..can you tell? I always put Belfour in the same category with Hextall. Solid, but not great.. Just my personal opinion..plus he played for the Sioux. :D

Who cares if he wasn't drafted because he was 21 supposedly past his draft years, look at some of the goalies that play the game today and how old they were when they got the starting nod because it really doesn't matter where you get drafted because a low draft pick could do just as much in the NHL as a high draft pick and lets look at some of these.

Ryan Miller drafted in 99 but played 3 seasons at Michigan State was 138th overall and he was 21 when he actually saw action between the pipes and didn't even get the starting nod until he was 24 and if I am not mistaken Belfour was the same age when he got the starting nod too for Chicago

Another goalie Patrick Lalime was drafted at 19 156th overall but never saw action until he was 22 and didn't even get the starting job until he was in Ottawa 4 years later so if my math is correct he was 26 years old. Or how about Hasek was drafted when he was 18 199th overall but didn't even see action in the NHL until he was 25 and didn't even get the starting job in Buffalo until he was 28

How about another one Tim Thomas was 20 when he was drafted 217th overall and didn't even see action until he was 28 and received the starting job at 32.

These goalies are all late round gems most of them didn't even receive action until they were way older than Belfour was when he first saw his...So what is your point.

I think Hasek ended up being the better overall goalie than Belfour. Man..the guy had quick feet.

[chippa13 1844]

Who cares if he wasn't drafted because he was 21 supposedly past his draft years, look at some of the goalies that play the game today and how old they were when they got the starting nod because it really doesn't matter where you get drafted because a low draft pick could do just as much in the NHL as a high draft pick and lets look at some of these.

Ryan Miller drafted in 99 but played 3 seasons at Michigan State was 138th overall and he was 21 when he actually saw action between the pipes and didn't even get the starting nod until he was 24 and if I am not mistaken Belfour was the same age when he got the starting nod too for Chicago

Another goalie Patrick Lalime was drafted at 19 156th overall but never saw action until he was 22 and didn't even get the starting job until he was in Ottawa 4 years later so if my math is correct he was 26 years old. Or how about Hasek was drafted when he was 18 199th overall but didn't even see action in the NHL until he was 25 and didn't even get the starting job in Buffalo until he was 28

How about another one Tim Thomas was 20 when he was drafted 217th overall and didn't even see action until he was 28 and received the starting job at 32.

These goalies are all late round gems most of them didn't even receive action until they were way older than Belfour was when he first saw his...So what is your point.

Ummmmmm...........how old you are when you get the starting nod and how old you are when scouts notice you are two totally different things.

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

Who cares if he wasn't drafted because he was 21 supposedly past his draft years, look at some of the goalies that play the game today and how old they were when they got the starting nod because it really doesn't matter where you get drafted because a low draft pick could do just as much in the NHL as a high draft pick and lets look at some of these.

Ryan Miller drafted in 99 but played 3 seasons at Michigan State was 138th overall and he was 21 when he actually saw action between the pipes and didn't even get the starting nod until he was 24 and if I am not mistaken Belfour was the same age when he got the starting nod too for Chicago

Another goalie Patrick Lalime was drafted at 19 156th overall but never saw action until he was 22 and didn't even get the starting job until he was in Ottawa 4 years later so if my math is correct he was 26 years old. Or how about Hasek was drafted when he was 18 199th overall but didn't even see action in the NHL until he was 25 and didn't even get the starting job in Buffalo until he was 28

How about another one Tim Thomas was 20 when he was drafted 217th overall and didn't even see action until he was 28 and received the starting job at 32.

These goalies are all late round gems most of them didn't even receive action until they were way older than Belfour was when he first saw his...So what is your point.

Ummmmmm...........how old you are when you get the starting nod and how old you are when scouts notice you are two totally different things.

Well apparently the Chicago scouts noticed him when he was 21 and signed him so it really doesn't matter that he went undrafted

[chippa13 1844]

What exactly is your point? All I've done is explain why he was an undrafted free agent.