Will KPD ever get over the Thornton snub?

[chippa13 1844]

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articl...an_average_joe/

Thornton, billed as an Eric Lindros/Mike Modano hybrid (a billing never fulfilled)

Correct, Jumbo Joe's head isn't made of glass (Lindros) and he has had two 100 point seasons (Modano never has).

Seriously though, Thornton snubbed the media some 5 1/2 years ago and has been gone from Boston for nearly 3 (still the worst Bruins trade ever). When will KPD find a new whipping boy?

[mrusse01 0]

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articl...an_average_joe/

Thornton, billed as an Eric Lindros/Mike Modano hybrid (a billing never fulfilled)

Correct, Jumbo Joe's head isn't made of glass (Lindros) and he has had two 100 point seasons (Modano never has).

Seriously though, Thornton snubbed the media some 5 1/2 years ago and has been gone from Boston for nearly 3 (still the worst Bruins trade ever). When will KPD find a new whipping boy?

Worst trade in recent NHL history if you ask me.

[Kevin 5]

KPD is obsessed with Thornton. The inmates run the asylum at the Globe Sports section (see, e.g., Shaughnessy's obsession of a different nature with Ted Williams). Any editor worth anything would tell KPD to give it a rest.

[kosydar 0]

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articl...an_average_joe/

Thornton, billed as an Eric Lindros/Mike Modano hybrid (a billing never fulfilled)

Correct, Jumbo Joe's head isn't made of glass (Lindros) and he has had two 100 point seasons (Modano never has).

Seriously though, Thornton snubbed the media some 5 1/2 years ago and has been gone from Boston for nearly 3 (still the worst Bruins trade ever). When will KPD find a new whipping boy?

Worst trade in recent NHL history if you ask me.

I'm keeping my eye on another Boston trade: Raycroft for Rask.

[chippa13 1844]

Bertuzzi for Luongo wins, hands down.

[mrusse01 0]

Both those trades you can somewhat defend though.

Raycroft was a former Calder winner, Pogge/Rask was a bit of a log jam, and Rask was (and still is) just a prospect. There is a good chance he never develops into anything.

Bertuzzi for Luongo was a bad trade as well, but wasn't Luongo a pending free agent who had rejected several contract offers from Florida? They were kind of up against a wall, and it was tough to predict that Bertuzzi would fall off the cliff as bad as he did.

The Thornton trade, Boston just shipped him out of town, out of the blue, for almost no return. And didn't he win the MVP that year? Outrageously bad trade. I would have stopped following the team after that if I had been a Bruins fan.

[chippa13 1844]

The Raycroft for Rask deal was one that I was against as a fan of Boston. I didn't believe in handing the reigns over to Toivonen so quickly. There was just too small of a sample from Toivonen to justify it. There were rumblings that Raycroft was a Thornton guy, similar to Boynton, and that B's brass wanted not only Joe gone but anyone who was in his camp. I wanted to give Raycroft a chance to return to form and get his confidence back.

I agree with the assessment of Rask in TO's eyes. They had two goalie prospects and Pogge had just put up some decent numbers. Rask became trade bait in their eyes and they wanted to bring in a guy who could bridge the gap until Pogge was ready for full time NHL duty. Had Boston not ruined Raycroft, the Leafs would have made a good deal.

Bertuzzi is a guy that I always felt was overrated. Outside of his two high scoring seasons in Vancouver he has always been an average player with a history of stupidity, dating as far back as his minor hockey days. Even prior to the Moore incident Bertuzzi had already dropped off considerably. After the incident, he was even worse. I wouldn't have touched him with a ten foot pole in the hockey world.

Bertuzzi simply pulled a Jason Blake, he was unconscious during a contract year and a flop ever since.

[kosydar 0]

The Thornton trade was a weird one for sure, mainly because it happened so early in the season. I've heard that if Gaborik is shipped early in this season the reward will be something along the lines of Boston. Most teams cannot simply add a player like that to their roster for an entire season. While the return was underwhelming at first, Boston did get some pretty good players out of it. Primeau is a good third liner. Stuart looked real good in Detroit last season after moving around a bit. Sturm is good for 20 goals/40-50 points a year. While all those combined aren't worth a franchise player like Joe, I doubt there was a better offer on the table. I'd assume Boston wanted to move him out of the Eastern Conference, so that limited their potential return even more. You have to wonder what the offers would have been like if they'd have waited until the deadline to deal him.

[chippa13 1844]

There wasn't a better offer on the table because most GM's didn't know that Thornton was available. The Sharks were talking to the B's about a deal involving Samsonov and Stuart. Word has it that O'Connell just offered up Joe and the deal was made in minutes. I believe that the B's never intended to keep Joe after they signed him to his 3 year deal that summer and I'm convinced he wasn't moved in that offseason to protect season ticket sales.

[kosydar 0]

I agree with the assessment of Rask in TO's eyes. They had two goalie prospects and Pogge had just put up some decent numbers. Rask became trade bait in their eyes and they wanted to bring in a guy who could bridge the gap until Pogge was ready for full time NHL duty. Had Boston not ruined Raycroft, the Leafs would have made a good deal.

Bertuzzi is a guy that I always felt was overrated. Outside of his two high scoring seasons in Vancouver he has always been an average player with a history of stupidity, dating as far back as his minor hockey days. Even prior to the Moore incident Bertuzzi had already dropped off considerably. After the incident, he was even worse. I wouldn't have touched him with a ten foot pole in the hockey world.

Bertuzzi simply pulled a Jason Blake, he was unconscious during a contract year and a flop ever since.

I still hate the idea that the Leafs wanted only one bluechip goaltending prospect. Rask could very well have stayed in Finland and developed over there (as he did), and Pogge could have played for the Marlies. Of course that didn't happen and the Leafs have shown they can't develop goaltenders yet again, but that is a completely different story.

I don't think Bert's drop off is nearly as bad as Blake's. Besides his two great seasons (01-02, 02-03), he was close to a PPG in the Steve Moore year. He also had 70 points in the year after the lockout. His career is definitely in decline, but I don't think its fair to compare him to a guy who went from 40 goals to 15 overnight.

[chippa13 1844]

A quick look at Bertuzzi's stats and he did share a similar goals scoring decline. Bertuzzi was supposed to be the scorer of the Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi combination.

02-03 46 goals

03-04 17 goals

05-06 25 goals

06-07 3 goals (15 game injury shortened season, only played 7 games for Panthers)

07-08 14 goals

[stick9 891]

KPD (who posts on another forum I frequent) will never let it go. The mere mention of it gets him ranting and raving. He never passes up the opportunity to take a shot at him either.

Like Big Joe or not, you can't honestly say the return was sufficient enough to warrant such a move. O'Connell never shopped him around and by all accounts took the first offer that came along. That's not how your properly manage your assets.....then again we are talking about the Boston Bruins.

A few years ago I was skating with a guy who spent some time in the IHL. He was telling me a close friend of his (maybe even his former agent) talked with Doug Wilson shortly after the Thornton deal. Wilson told him that he was shocked when O'Connell agreed to the offer and was prepared to offer two other players in addition to the three they ended up with...no mention of names though.

I still to this day believe San Jose was the only team O'Connell offered Thornton to.

I was at the B's first game without Thornton. A guy had a #19 jersey with "NOW WHAT" over Thornton's name and hung it over the railing of his section. Security came over and asked him to take it down. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

[habsfan87 0]

Correct me if I'm worng but Boston didn't make too many moves to give Joe the team that Steve does. Boston was terrible the year before with under 60 points, and I believe the NHL is different and aids to a younger skilled player at the time. Not to say some before Joe didnt have great rookie years, but I'd credit Stamkos' struggles to ice time

[chippa13 1844]

KPD (who posts on another forum I frequent) will never let it go. The mere mention of it gets him ranting and raving. He never passes up the opportunity to take a shot at him either.

Like Big Joe or not, you can't honestly say the return was sufficient enough to warrant such a move. O'Connell never shopped him around and by all accounts took the first offer that came along. That's not how your properly manage your assets.....then again we are talking about the Boston Bruins.

A few years ago I was skating with a guy who spent some time in the IHL. He was telling me a close friend of his (maybe even his former agent) talked with Doug Wilson shortly after the Thornton deal. Wilson told him that he was shocked when O'Connell agreed to the offer and was prepared to offer two other players in addition to the three they ended up with...no mention of names though.

I still to this day believe San Jose was the only team O'Connell offered Thornton to.

I was at the B's first game without Thornton. A guy had a #19 jersey with "NOW WHAT" over Thornton's name and hung it over the railing of his section. Security came over and asked him to take it down. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

By what I heard, O'Connell didn't shop him at all and talks of a deal for Sammy suddenly became talks of a deal for Jumbo Joe.

Nice story about the first game after the deal. I think even better, I was at the first home game after the Oates diatribe that led O'Connell to tear the "A" off his jersey. The "Garden" had the buzz of a playoff game and the crowd never stopped cheering Oates each time he touched the ice and each time he touched the puck. I don't think there has ever been such a fanbase thumbing of the nose at Bruins management before or since.

[mrusse01 0]

KPD (who posts on another forum I frequent) will never let it go. The mere mention of it gets him ranting and raving. He never passes up the opportunity to take a shot at him either.

What exactly did Thornton do to the media?

[kosydar 0]

A quick look at Bertuzzi's stats and he did share a similar goals scoring decline. Bertuzzi was supposed to be the scorer of the Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi combination.

02-03 46 goals

03-04 17 goals

05-06 25 goals

06-07 3 goals (15 game injury shortened season, only played 7 games for Panthers)

07-08 14 goals

Where do you come up with the statement "Bertuzzi was supposed to be the scorer"? That might have been your personal opinion, but it never happened. I would buy that Morrison was the set up guy, but Bert never scored more goals than Naslund while they were together in Vancouver. I understand you dislike Bert a lot, but its really skewing your argument.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=35...ame=nhl-rangers

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=94...name=nhl-flames

[chippa13 1844]

During the series where the B's had a 3-1 lead on Montreal which they were in the process of blowing, Thornton, B's captain at the time, snuck out the back of the practice facility one day instead of talking to the Boston press. KPD has never let him live it down.

[chippa13 1844]

Bertuzzi was touted as the next great power forward, lauded as such by Don Maloney when he was drafted. Now, let's think about what power forwards are known for, guys like Neely, LeClair, Roberts, and Shanahan. Staking claim to their piece of the ice and finishing. Did Naslund outscore him? Sure. Does that mean Bertuzzi wasn't supposed to be a scorer? No. Did Bertuzzi explode for a season or two and do little close previous or since? Yes.

[kosydar 0]

If you ask anyone who should be expected to score the most goals on a line of an elite sniper, playmaker and power forward, how many are going to say power forward? Being a power forward involves much more than scoring goals and you know that. But now that you're bringing up what he should have done and other hypothetical things, I'll assume that you've once again started an argument you can't back up with facts and leave it at that.

[chippa13 1844]

What was Neely's job? Shanahan's? LeClair's? Simple, put the puck in the net and punish anyone who doesn't let you. Is that not the definition of a power forward? Remember now, Sinden coined the term for hockey with Neely.

This whole thread is about the difference between perception and reality. Bertuzzi barely lived up to what he was touted to be. He had a career season or two, cashed in, and faded away.

Why is that so upsetting?

[JJ Thompson94 0]

chippa13 you sound like an Islander fan. I will agree the Isles did think that Bert was going to be their Neely Power foward when they drafted him. He just couldn't handle the pressure of being that highly touted. Not to mention Milbury totally screwing him up. Melrose and those Tampa owners will screw up Stamkos.

If Stamkos doesn't score 4-5 goals by the end of November. He MUST go back to Jrs. He is invisible on the ice, he's not even there. He'll get decent chance or two but otherwise it seems like the game is just a bit too fast for him right now. He should go back to Jrs. build up his confidence abit. If they don't I'm blaming the owners and Melrose if his career is a bust.

[Law Goalie 147]

Let's not even start with Milbury...

The least we can say is that Boston learned from their mistakes - they're doing a pretty good job bringing Bergeron, Lucic and Kessel into the upper echelons of the game.

[stick9 891]

During the series where the B's had a 3-1 lead on Montreal which they were in the process of blowing, Thornton, B's captain at the time, snuck out the back of the practice facility one day instead of talking to the Boston press. KPD has never let him live it down.

Key point to note, it was the series in which Thornton was playing with badly injured ribs. He was getting his usual ice time with his usual line-mates but wasn't producing. The day after ditching the media KPD wrote a scathing article about Thornton, demanding the C be removed from his jersey. Going on to say as captain it was his duty to address the media.

chippa the way I heard it was O'Connell was talking to Wilson and said everyone is available. Wilson assumed that meant everyone but Thornton, and asked "even Thornton". O'Connell replied, "everyone is available". Talks quickly changed from B. Stuart for Samsonov to B. Stuart and for Thornton.

Iron Mike was down in FL at the time and had always had a huge man crush on Joe. I bet O'Connell could have flipped Thornton for Luongo and come out looking like a hero.

[chippa13 1844]

Thornton for Luongo? Now that is a deal I might have been able to get on board with.

chippa13 you sound like an Islander fan. I will agree the Isles did think that Bert was going to be their Neely Power foward when they drafted him. He just couldn't handle the pressure of being that highly touted. Not to mention Milbury totally screwing him up. Melrose and those Tampa owners will screw up Stamkos.

If Stamkos doesn't score 4-5 goals by the end of November. He MUST go back to Jrs. He is invisible on the ice, he's not even there. He'll get decent chance or two but otherwise it seems like the game is just a bit too fast for him right now. He should go back to Jrs. build up his confidence abit. If they don't I'm blaming the owners and Melrose if his career is a bust.

I agree. Either put Stamkos on the ice or send him somewhere where he can get icetime. I hated what Burns did with Jumbo Joe and I think it slowed his development.

[mrusse01 0]

I agree. Either put Stamkos on the ice or send him somewhere where he can get icetime. I hated what Burns did with Jumbo Joe and I think it slowed his development.

Stamkos at least has Vinny and Marty on that team. He could turn out to be a very good number 1 overall pick with a great career and still not end up as good as those guys, so I don't think he has the pressure on him that Joe had. He looked alright against the Leafs, I think at this point you might crush his confidence more by sending him back to juniors.