plus/minus question

[bantamseadogs13 0]

Can someone help with a stats question I have? When keeping the plus/minus stats, when the 2 lines, 1 forward line and 1 defense line, starts out on a break, the forwards keep skating into the zone, the defense changes up. While the defense are in the middle of the change the forward line scores. Which defense line gets the credit for the plus/minus, the line that started the play out of the zone, or the new line just stepping on the ice? I can only assume it would be the line that initially involved in the play, but just would like to clarify it.

[mrusse01 0]

Can someone help with a stats question I have? When keeping the plus/minus stats, when the 2 lines, 1 forward line and 1 defense line, starts out on a break, the forwards keep skating into the zone, the defense changes up. While the defense are in the middle of the change the forward line scores. Which defense line gets the credit for the plus/minus, the line that started the play out of the zone, or the new line just stepping on the ice? I can only assume it would be the line that initially involved in the play, but just would like to clarify it.

I always thought it was whoever was actually on the ice when the puck goes in.

[Chadd 916]

I always thought it was whoever was actually on the ice when the puck goes in.

Correct

[bantamseadogs13 0]

OK, thanks for the help guys. It does seem like yet another misrepresentation of the whole plus/minus stat that you can step on the ice at the end of a play and get credit for someone else's work. Anybody else have an opinion about it?

[santiclaws 0]

OK, thanks for the help guys. It does seem like yet another misrepresentation of the whole plus/minus stat that you can step on the ice at the end of a play and get credit for someone else's work. Anybody else have an opinion about it?

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

[shooter27 116]

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

[bantamseadogs13 0]

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

Your right there. I've been told that plus/minus is "mostly luck of the bounce". So I guess Bobby Orr was "lucky" 597 times in his career? I just wasn't sure about the line change situation, that's why I brought it up, but I would like to hear any input anybody has about this. I've been keeping this stat for my son's coach, and have run into this issue several times so far, and have been giving the +/- stat to line that started the play. I guess that is wrong??

[santiclaws 0]

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

Well, maybe I didn't put it quite right. What I meant to say is that it is a stat that can't be used blindly. Hard to compare +/- of a guy on a very good team to that of a guy on a very bad one.

[dcdot377 0]

the plus minus is a stat that reflects more team play than say goals. if u are the third asist (you make a pass to player A who passes it to B who passes it to C and C scores) you get credit it also shows how well you play your defensive assignments. if you have a negative or low number, yes it might not always be your falt but if you leave a guy alone infront of the net who scores you should be credited (or discredited) in some form

[Chadd 916]

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

It's just a number and can be skewed by any number of factors. Coaches and scouts pay attention to performance and not numbers, only people on the internet put credence in numbers.

[sturdy22 28]

I look at plus/minus as an indicator of how valuable a player is on the ice (on ice value). yes there will be times that a player will step on the ice just before a goal is scored, either for or against, and those will even out. if a minus is given to a player who just steps onto the ice it means that some one was making a bad change, and on the high school team i coach players who don't make the "smart change" will be sitting on the bench. I can look down the stats of the players who have a bad rating and those are players who don't play team defense.

I think the plus/minus rating tells alot about a player.

[bantamseadogs13 0]

sturdy, as a coach that's looking at stats on d-man without seeing the player on the ice, what would be your initial thought about these numbers for a d-man:

12 GP

0 G

7 A

4 PIM

+6

These are my son's numbers so far. He's a 1st year Bantam playing AAA in Canada.

[mrusse01 0]

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

Your right there. I've been told that plus/minus is "mostly luck of the bounce". So I guess Bobby Orr was "lucky" 597 times in his career? I just wasn't sure about the line change situation, that's why I brought it up, but I would like to hear any input anybody has about this. I've been keeping this stat for my son's coach, and have run into this issue several times so far, and have been giving the +/- stat to line that started the play. I guess that is wrong??

That would be technically wrong. It would be a slippery slope to start making a judgement call...like if a dman keeps the puck in at the line, the play cycles down lown for 25 seconds while that dman changes off the ice, the puck is cycled around some more for another shift...maybe even the new dman keeps it in once or twice....and a goal is scored. The play wouldn't have happened if that original player didn't keep the puck in at the line, but it would be almost impossible to keep that as a stat unless you went back over every game on video and determined who was really involved in each scoring play.

You son's numbers look pretty impressive, but a lot depends on his team (not as impressive if they are killing everybody) and his role on the team (PP time, ice time, etc).

You should try and track (if you already aren't) how many goals against on the PK/PK/EV your son is on the ice for. For instance, if his +6 translates to being on for 0 goals against, 6 goals for in 12 games it would say something different about his game versus if he has been on for 30 goals against and 36 for.

[Chadd 916]

I look at plus/minus as an indicator of how valuable a player is on the ice (on ice value). yes there will be times that a player will step on the ice just before a goal is scored, either for or against, and those will even out. if a minus is given to a player who just steps onto the ice it means that some one was making a bad change, and on the high school team i coach players who don't make the "smart change" will be sitting on the bench. I can look down the stats of the players who have a bad rating and those are players who don't play team defense.

I think the plus/minus rating tells alot about a player.

I had a former NHL coach tell me something about coaches that think like that, it wasn't complimentary either.

[bantamseadogs13 0]

The same way you can step on the ice and get a minus because of someone else's screw-up. One reason many people do not give too much credence to the +/- stat.

Casual fans may not put much credence in plus/minus, but I can promise you coaches and scouts play PLENTY of attention to plus/minus. Those random screw ups that result when you first jump on the ice tend to even out over the course of a season.

Your right there. I've been told that plus/minus is "mostly luck of the bounce". So I guess Bobby Orr was "lucky" 597 times in his career? I just wasn't sure about the line change situation, that's why I brought it up, but I would like to hear any input anybody has about this. I've been keeping this stat for my son's coach, and have run into this issue several times so far, and have been giving the +/- stat to line that started the play. I guess that is wrong??

That would be technically wrong. It would be a slippery slope to start making a judgement call...like if a dman keeps the puck in at the line, the play cycles down lown for 25 seconds while that dman changes off the ice, the puck is cycled around some more for another shift...maybe even the new dman keeps it in once or twice....and a goal is scored. The play wouldn't have happened if that original player didn't keep the puck in at the line, but it would be almost impossible to keep that as a stat unless you went back over every game on video and determined who was really involved in each scoring play.

You son's numbers look pretty impressive, but a lot depends on his team (not as impressive if they are killing everybody) and his role on the team (PP time, ice time, etc).

You should try and track (if you already aren't) how many goals against on the PK/PK/EV your son is on the ice for. For instance, if his +6 translates to being on for 0 goals against, 6 goals for in 12 games it would say something different about his game versus if he has been on for 30 goals against and 36 for.

He does get alot of PK time. Here are the team stats through 12 games:

81 GF

60 GA

277 PIM, yes this is correct. :-)

Basically, pretty amatuer really, but I made a word document that I write down all the players numbers that are on the ice on GF, the same for GA, and write either PP, SHGF (short-handed goals for), and PKGA. And the numbers I gave above are 5-5 play for the most part. PKGA goals do not count against plus/minus, right? Although I understand that are separate stats for those situations. So, I can go back and refigure the special teams stats as I have them in a file to recheck. Thanks for the advise.

[Hockeydog 8]

I think it is a stat that needs a lot of support info to have any use. All of the above mentioned

scenarios can affect the rating. Now if your team has one player with a bad +/- and everyone else has a good rating or visa -versa, then it has more use. Just to look down a stat sheet and make judgment based on that is not good coaching.

[sturdy22 28]

Without seeing a player or a team play, stats on paper mean nothing. as a 8 year high school coach i would never make a judgment about a player based only on his plus/minus rating, but I can say that the players who have had the worst plus/minus rating at the end of the season were the players who were scored on the most, and did not provide enough offense to balance out the minuses. I have had really good teams and really average teams and the stats usually come out the same.