Sharpening...

[hockeydude2003 0]

Another poll - what kind of wheels do you guys use?

I prefer pink but we ordered rubies this time around.

i know max edge is making a wheel thats both blue and pink combined so itll be good for both stainless and carbong. the blue wheel i use for carbon and pink for stainless. 3 head machine so we can have both wheels different and a reg pink cross cut wheel.

[Cavs019 708]

ours are just straight up slate grey.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

That's the setup we use too, but we use the blue for rentals (we have only one machine)

Cavs - grey is absolutely awful. That's a heavy stock wheel. Go with ruby or pink or blue (if he really wants to save money)

[atomicpunk5150 2]

Good topic. On our 3 head Blademaster machine we use Blue on 1 side, Pink on the other. We also have 2 Incredible Edger presision sharpeners that use very fine wheels. The Incredible Edgers ran our owner over $2500 each. We have a second BM for rentals. As a sharpener for over 10 years, a training program for your Proshop employees is very important. Our owner has set up high standards for training and sharpening. It is pretty rare at an Ice Rink that the owner is so involved in sharpening, but he feels it is critical for the sucsess of the shop.

Our rink is in Roseville, CA

[black296tuuk 3]

anyone interested in the art of sharpening should read "Skateology". It is mostly figure stuff and it is a little outdated but it explains the science of a blade and why blade shape and squareness are critical. The web site is http://www.iceskateology.com/ . I have met the guy that wrote the book a few times and he is a classic old timer. He talks a ton of smack about Blademaster. WARNING this is not a book for the masses, it is a very difficult read and involves a bunch of math that I battled with.

JR - Ruby and Pink are for rookies!!! Only a pro can sharpen with a Grey and have a smooth ass finish!!

[monoclub 5]

i have a student had their skate come back with a concave in the middle of the blade where the idiot held the blade in place over the stone, its about 2mm deep! how can this be repaired?

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

JR - Ruby and Pink are for rookies!!! Only a pro can sharpen with a Grey and have a smooth ass finish!!

LOL...well yeah, but why struggle? ;)

[monoclub 5]

also, anyone know where to find this manual from skateology on the web?...

for what its worth I find faster firm passes to start and then slower as I work to an edge, depending on how much the blade needs to be ground, if a long time since its been sharpened this method can make the blade very hot and more susceptible to burning, but it works with skates that have been recently sharpened.

Geoff

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

i have a student had their skate come back with a concave in the middle of the blade where the idiot held the blade in place over the stone, its about 2mm deep! how can this be repaired?

You'll probably have to reprofile the skate.

[Chadd 916]

JR - Ruby and Pink are for rookies!!! Only a pro can sharpen with a Grey and have a smooth ass finish!!

No kidding, that's all I have for my old Wissota, it's a pain trying to get a perfect edge with that thing. Serious ghetto setup on mine right now.

[RadioGaGa 162]

I've never bothered to go to a hockey specific store to get my skates done. Usually just at Sportchek or National Sports (one on either side of my work). Pay $3 and off I go. There's one guy SC whoapologizes when he gives them back to me...

"yeah, sorry, they're probably too sharp...I do it everytime"

JR, you were talking about "banana blades" earlier...the last time he did them he kinda cut into the toe of the holder....it's kinda weird....I don't think it's effecting my skating....at least not that I can tell. I wish I had a digital camera. I'd post a pic and you could tell me how badly F'ed up they were.

What should a "good" quality sharpening cost? Like I said $3 + tax (Cdn) at most places around here.

[bertuzzi44 0]

Here in Quebec, a lot of shops have the Cag One sharpener... I think the main advantage is that it is an automated so it reduce the "human error"... You can't have a banana skate with thoses kinds of sharpeners... It always gives you a good result... unless the guy do not dress the whell properly

But not as good as a well driven Blademaster ...

And here the cost for sharpening is 4 $ with taxes ...

Cag One

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

Here in Quebec, a lot of shops have the Cag One sharpener... I think the main advantage is that it is an automated so it reduce the "human error"...

There is a certain element of human finesse involved with sharpening skates that you cannot get from an automated machine. However, on the same token, it can translate into human error.

[MDE3 0]

I find it strange that no mention is made about squaring the blade clamp in here...many clamps were height adjustable from each end, and I always checked my clamp before beginning a sharpening to make sure the center radius of the dressed stone was centered on the blade throughout the pass. It never ceased to amaze me how often it wasn't trued...I have seen many blades come out with about a 30 degree "list" from careless sharpeners, or a rolling twist to the levelness of the edges.

[blackhawks4ever 0]

I was paying $6 plus tax (US) to have some meatball do a shitty job (It was like he was running a snowcone machine or something). Then I gave up and switched to t-blades. Now its a perfect edge every time :D

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

I find it strange that no mention is made about squaring the blade clamp in here...many clamps were height adjustable from each end, and I always checked my clamp before beginning a sharpening to make sure the center radius of the dressed stone was centered on the blade throughout the pass. It never ceased to amaze me how often it wasn't trued...I have seen many blades come out with about a 30 degree "list" from careless sharpeners, or a rolling twist to the levelness of the edges.

Good point.

Who crossgrinds every time before they sharpen? Or do you tap the blade and read off the hollow?

[hockeydude2003 0]

I've never bothered to go to a hockey specific store to get my skates done. Usually just at Sportchek or National Sports (one on either side of my work). Pay $3 and off I go. There's one guy SC whoapologizes when he gives them back to me...

"yeah, sorry, they're probably too sharp...I do it everytime"

JR, you were talking about "banana blades" earlier...the last time he did them he kinda cut into the toe of the holder....it's kinda weird....I don't think it's effecting my skating....at least not that I can tell. I wish I had a digital camera. I'd post a pic and you could tell me how badly F'ed up they were.

What should a "good" quality sharpening cost? Like I said $3 + tax (Cdn) at most places around here.

well maximum edge in windsor has there sharpening for $8 and where I work Just Hockey has it for $7. I've heard of places in New York that charge $10 because there the nearest shop to anybody and one that does a good job since there part of maximum edge

[goalie39 0]

I crossgrind each time because i feel better working with a fresh canvas so to speak

Thanks for the info JR, a couple more questions tho, where do you get the oil (I know my shop doesnt have any), how tight do you mount the skate, and do you lube the deck? Blademaster has been sending us crappy bottles of slick it so we switched to lemon pledge and it works great...haha tell me what you think.

[hockeydude2003 0]

slick it i find works great for the table. with a place who does maximum edge puttin that on the table then taking a steel wool pad the red kind and just using that to massage it into the table helps with the table I find, that and after you dress your wheel properly brusing the bottom of ur holder will help alot also and changing the pad whenever it gets too dirty because when ur sharpening the dust can come off the wheel and dirty the bottom up possibly making it stick and burning the blade or taking alot of steel off.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

I just use Norton sharpening oil - you can get it at any hardware store.

I don't know, I make sure the skate doesn't move, but not too tight that i can't take it off...

Lemon Pledge? Nice...

I use WD-40 to take away moisture, wipe it down, then clean with stainless steel cleaner, then wipe down, then apply Slick-It if I have it. But since I don't, the ss cleaner works just fine.

Sean, the problem with Maximum Edge is that while yes, it is a good method, however, it doesn't ensure a great sharpening because a great sharpening depends on the operator as well as the method. I have seen some M-E authorized dealer sharpenings that were not great. They just didn't care.

I use the method myself, but I'm not authorized - just learned from people who were! I'd love to take the course, but given my current job situation, it would not benefit me to pay $800 CDN for a course and be certified. They won't pay for me to go and they won't pay me extra for being certified.

that and after you dress your wheel properly brusing the bottom of ur holder will help alot also and changing the pad whenever it gets too dirty because when ur sharpening the dust can come off the wheel and dirty the bottom up possibly making it stick and burning the blade or taking alot of steel off.

My sharpening room is carpeted (the real short office carpet) and I just bend down and drag the holder on the carpet and it takes off all the dust.

[hockeydude2003 0]

Sean, the problem with Maximum Edge is that while yes, it is a good method, however, it doesn't ensure a great sharpening because a great sharpening depends on the operator as well as the method. I have seen some M-E authorized dealer sharpenings that were not great. They just didn't care.

I agree with you there, maximum is only as good as the operator. I know with the guys who sharpen skates all the time that the quality work is there. But there have been some shops that just say they do maximum edge but dont really use maximum edge. I still have some customers who tell us not to stone the skate for some reason. But yes I do agree with you JR that some maximum edge sharpeners arent that great.

[MDE3 0]

I wanted to comment on someone who mentioned that having a noticable break at the front and rear transition zones from the center to the end radii doesn't matter. I always could feel that when I skated, and in certain situations could feel that slight "break point" catch the ice.

Not only the above, but these "break points" in the radii, tend to become the first point where the skate loses the edge. I found you needed to go very carefully from "0" contact to gently increasing pressure at the "high spot"(break point), starting at the center of the blade and working outwards to remove these(reducing pressure once past the "break point", and as you hit the front or rear radii so as not to cut too much rocker). I would reverse the skate and repeat the same operation. That's why it is so critical to make sure the stone is centered on the blade. I always only cut against the spin. Once I was sure of the smooth transition, I would make light passes to make a uniform finish in one direction only.

Anyone else had a problem with certain grades of stainless that were so hard they were brittle, and slivers would break off the sharp edges? Found I needed to go to a much shallower hollow radius to keep an edge on that type of steel, and lost a bit of bite...I liked about a 3/8" and would have to go up to almost 3/4" before I could get any life out of the sharpening...This was mostly on Graf 704's a few years back..

To correct a poorly sharpened skate could take me up to 20 minutes..so when I charged people..I charged by the hour..after showing them why it would take so long. I only sharpened skates for the teaching pro's and upper elite players, so they didn't complain when I told them why it ould be more..they understood why. The primary reason was that the rink operators and owners let me use their sharpener, and to keep a good stone and make a good cut, I used up more of the stone and diamonds than regular sharpening, and paid them a fee also based on the time it took..unless of course it was for their skates lol. EG a custom rocker cut could cost up to $25.00.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

Yes...the Graf steel does that. Very brittle steel - you have to sharpen it shallow for it to hold an edge.

[joshy207 15]

I work on a Blademaster machine. I use ruby wheels. I find they cut the steel well and give a good finish. I also use Gusto Glide on my final pass.

I only crossgrind if the skates are new, rusty, or have huge nicks. Otherwise, you're just wasting steel.

As for keeping the tabletop clean, I brush the surface off all the time. Usually after every couple pairs sharpened, and especially after crossgrinding. If you leave the wheel dust on the table and start sharpening, it sticks to the felt pad and basically acts as sandpaper, scratching and wearing away your table surface. When I clean the table, I brush or vacuum it off really good, then usually use some Windex to get rid of any oil buildup from Gusto Glide residue. I wipe that off with a paper towel, then use Slick It, spray it on, let it start to dry, then wipe it off and buff the table to a shine with another paper towel. Also, I brush the felt pads off all the time. Keeping your table clean helps you sharpen better.

[echi24 1]

I know at Centenial Hockey Arena in Toronto, they charge about 5-6 dollars or less for sharpenings. The sharperner had been doing this for at likest 30 years, and they speacialize in graf sharpenings cause they are a specialty graf product dealer. I get a perfect edge with my cobras everytime they sharpen em...i only go to sport chek and stuff if its an emergency and i have a game in 15 mins. They hire high school kids that dont care cause they get paid $7 an hour