Why can't\won't you control your stick?

[cptjeff 0]

I think the argument here is that a lot of the negligent stuff is being written off as being beyond the control of the offender.

Actually, I tend to see it the other way around. The visor wearers who whine about sticks hitting them yell that you need to be in control of your stick without recognizing that there are situations where that's rather impossible. And the rules are written presuming that there are no situations where the stick is out of a person's control.

If your stick is on the ice when you get hit and the odds are that you have two hands on your stick, because that is just good mechanics, then your stick should not come up when you get hit.

It's not always going to be on the ice when you get hit. There are a myriad of perfectly valid reasons that it might not be.

"Assuming an ideal elastic collision of two spherical masses on a frictionless plane, the stick won't come up".

[chippa13 1844]

The purpose of a body check is to separate a player from the puck, said puck is usually on the ice so that is where your stick should be.

[eric42434224 1]

The purpose of a body check is to separate a player from the puck, said puck is usually on the ice so that is where your stick should be.

When I watch hockey, it seems the majority of checks occur after the puck has left.

[vek 0]

It seems that high sticking penalties, and many that go uncalled, are routine in the NHL, and it doesn't appear that virtually any are intentional or most even a result of being negligent. Barely a night goes by where I don't see someone doing the routine check for blood for the referee.

If these guys can't "control their sticks" at the extreme highest levels, I don't see why amateurs can ever hope to be held to a higher standard.

[tareatingrat 4]

I think the argument here is that a lot of the negligent stuff is being written off as being beyond the control of the offender.

And I think the argument here is that a lot of accidental stuff is assumed to be negligent behaviour.

[shooter27 116]

I don't really buy the argument that there are a lot of situations where it is impossible to control your stick. Other than the one-handed stick lift scenario laid out, most adults - and anyone who has played at a high level - knows how and is strong enough to control their stick. Control doesn't always mean keeping the stick on the ice, but it does mean being able to stop it from flying up to head height. Just because someone lifts your stick doesn't mean you have carte blanche to let it fly up as high as possible, you should still be trying to keep it from getting up high. And if you're an adult who's not strong enough to at least be able to keep a 500 gram hockey stick below head level with one hand, well, that an issue unto itself.

[gxc999 7]

To sum it up, beyond unusual circumstances, high sticking shouldn't happen. I see it more when playing with C/D players than with A/B players, consistently. There's no excuse for good players to commit such an infraction, generally.

[Chadd 916]

And I think the argument here is that a lot of accidental stuff is assumed to be negligent behaviour.

Accidental is still negligent in most cases. Nobody is talking about the intentional stuff, just the careless incidents.

[zebra_steve 11]

Maybe we need a bit of perspective here.... I am assuming that we are talking adult leagues as if we were in Juniors we'd "deal with the situation".

So what levels are you guys playing at? Are you talking A,B,C,D, lower than D levels? At the A & B levels, we shouldn't be talking about losing control of our stick because of body checks because these are no check\no contact leagues. The skill level and level of play chould make this a pleasure to skate if they want to play hockey and not whack 'em hack 'em. And yes, the actions of the checker can and will occasionally be the root cause of a wild stick (this has been established and accepted).. The A & B level players should have enough skills and ability to keep their stick down even if they are getting pinched on the boards or lifted... the puck is still on the ice isn't it? Likewise, they should be able to control the force applied on lifts and presses.... C,D,other levels, well the skills truly may not be there and accidental stuff could be more likely.... but then we may e dealing with guys that think they should be playing the way the see the pros play on Versus....

[tareatingrat 4]

Accidental is still negligent in most cases. Nobody is talking about the intentional stuff, just the careless incidents.

Well, we can argue semantics on that.

It just seems that people are very quick to jump down somebody else's throat due to a simple accident.

[zebra_steve 11]

How about simple perspective since our actions are shaded by our experiences..... someone gets hit and they feel that if the role was reversed it would not have happened as they would have kept their stick down\under control.... so they bitch because in their mind it is negligent. Same goes for getting hit by a skilled player, the assumption is that the skilled player should be in control....

[tareatingrat 4]

I guess I just don't have any assumptions about my safety when I step on the ice. I can hope that nobody is going to take a run at me or intentionally injure me, but I can never be sure.

I know I'm playing a physical game where the whole point is to skate around on sharp steel, swinging a stick around to make a puck move while trying to avoid five guys who want to take it way from me.

Reasonably, I should assume that simply by playing the game, I'm going to get hurt at some point, regardless of all the safety precautions and rules involved because it's human nature to make mistakes.

Nobody is going to be perfect, not even the most skilled player, and definitely not the guy who started playing a week ago.

So to assume that things should never happen because that's the ideal, to me, is silly.

That said, I do expect some kind of apology in accidental situations. I think if you make a mistake, you should own up to it.

If you don't, then really, you're a douche. Maybe those are the people we're talking about, but they're still out there, and you have to expect they'll always be there and adjust your assumptions accordingly.

[zebra_steve 11]

You know what? Somewhere in these threads I think I mentioned that it seems that the "unwritten code" of hockey has fallen by the wayside....

I believe that is it in a nutshell.... there were things that you just did not do - accidentally or on purpose - if you did them accidentally you apologized immediately, and if it was on purpose or you didn't make amends someone made you pay for it..... Players respected each other a lot more then than now. You didn't worry so much about the high sticks because you didn't have to skate through a gauntlet of slashes on your hands or stick. A stick lift was just that - a quick upward tap and you immediately lowered your stick and went after the puck. A stick press was just that, you put you stick over the opponents stick with both blades on the ice and prevented him from shooting, passing, receiving a pass, or reaching a loose puck. Now a stick press is a chop on the bottom half of the shaft and a stick lift is a frigging pitchfork move that often finishes with both sticks chest high or more.

Oh, and the other thing was that it was a "man's world" in the slot area... you expected to have to go to war when you went there and you gave as good as you got - but is stayed below the neck or you would be dropping the gloves.... Ahhh the old days....

[Chadd 916]

Players respected each other a lot more then than now.

Mix in the societal lack of personal responsibility it's a dangerous combination.

[zebra_steve 11]

Sport imitates life...

[dsjunior1388 81]

On a related note Zebra and Chadd did you see the play in todays wings/Sharks game. It appeared that Franzen tripped Setoguchi and as he fell his stick clipped Franzen's face, cutting him just under the eye. Can either of you weigh in on that, was the right call made of should Setoguchi have gotten a penalty as well?

[Chadd 916]

On a related note Zebra and Chadd did you see the play in todays wings/Sharks game. It appeared that Franzen tripped Setoguchi and as he fell his stick clipped Franzen's face, cutting him just under the eye. Can either of you weigh in on that, was the right call made of should Setoguchi have gotten a penalty as well?

Didn't see the play, and I don't know what the NHL rules and supplemental instructions are for those types of plays.

[sitzlejd 0]

Actually, I tend to see it the other way around. The visor wearers who whine about sticks hitting them yell that you need to be in control of your stick without recognizing that there are situations where that's rather impossible. And the rules are written presuming that there are no situations where the stick is out of a person's control.

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This mentality is what causes this whole debate and it's all about the lack of respect and lack of personal responsibility. You say visor wearers "whine" because they say something to you when your stick hits them in face. Show me a visor wearer "whining" and I'll show you a cage wearer deflecting responsibility.

"What's he bitching about? If he would wear a damn cage he wouldn't have gotten cut." That seems to be the mentality among the caged, that it couldn't have been prevented and the lack of a cage is the problem.

Whose fault is it that he was cut? Did he hit himself in the face with your stick? In almost every situation it's the person whose stick inflicted the damage who is at fault. Everyone keeps citing these rare what-if scenarios, but I think the majority of high sticks in beer league are just carelessness - not maliciousness - but carelessness. And though not as offensive, carelessness can still have fault applied to it.

[Husker 0]

The only times I've been hit in the face is when people whiffed on stick lifts.

Just last week I got a high sticking penalty. I pinched in to keep a puck in, got tied up with the winger and another guy on their team. Had a stick in my legs and one guy was in front of me, puck came lose and I turned to skate and get back but since the guys stick was on my arm and another in my legs I fell and my top hand arm got cracked back since I was tangled with the guy and it hit him in the head.

I couldn't even drop my stick before it hit him in the head if I tried.

[zebra_steve 11]

Husker,

I got that you pinched and then go lost in that description... where was the blade of your stick in all of this? Was if off the ice or above knee level at all when you got tied up with the winger? Where was your stick when you tried to pull out of the scrum?

On a related note Zebra and Chadd did you see the play in todays wings/Sharks game. It appeared that Franzen tripped Setoguchi and as he fell his stick clipped Franzen's face, cutting him just under the eye. Can either of you weigh in on that, was the right call made of should Setoguchi have gotten a penalty as well?

Sorry, did not see it. The NHL has specific wording in their rules covering high sticks, incidental contact, shot follow through contact, etc..... the way you described it, the trip caused the high stick so probably no penalty. They expect players to have their head up and avoid the situation (like getting a shoulder to the chin on a north south hit - onus is on the player to have his head up). I dan't have that book sitting in front of me or I'd pull a quote.

Amateurs pretty much say you gotta control it no matter.