Nylon or Syn Leather

[Sande 0]

Hey everyone we are are torn on making a decision and thought you may like to have some insight on what we should do. On a new model of ours for 2005 HIGH TENASITY NYLON or SYN LEATHER. Both, obviously have there advantages. But keep this in mind, it will be for sale out there, and we think Nylon, even a great nylon, does not look as rich and cheapens the look of the glove.

[Dave 1]

I think that's the reason why many manufacturers only use syn leather: It makes those gloves look good.

If I were you I'd set myself apart from the competition by using Nylon. You could use it as a means for advertising, telling the customers that Nylon is the way to go and syn leather is just plain wrong.

If you explain the advantages of Nylon for every customer to understand, they might happily buy your products.

[Sande 0]

thanks Hockey Shark very good points, and that is what we try to do.

[SB39 2]

Nylon would be a great addition to the retail market, but only for those in the know, cuz as you said, it looks and feels cheap. I held and put on a pair of Owen Nolan´s pro stock nylon Z-Airs, and I know that nylon is better for high level hockey, and I still had to tell myself that they weren´t as low quality as they appeared. It helped that they had Nolan´s name on the cuff, but you get my point. You could make 2 retail versions of the same glove if productions costts weren´t prohibitive, or steer the top nylon glove to more educated markets that won´t be put off by the cheap look of nylon. I would say go for it, but produce more for places like Minnesota, Quebec, Ontario, Michigan, etc. California probably won´t give you much business in nylon gloves, that and Mission kinda has a majority out west in roller, and BNH from what I´ve seen of ice. Good luck

[Dave 1]

it looks and feels cheap

I don't think that Nylon necessarily has to look cheap. Ok, we're used to the old logic "cheap gloves are made of textile fabric, good gloves are made of true leather". But today's glove are very rarely made of real leather and Nylon isn't just some textile fabric.

The only advantage of synthetic leather is that it is shiny. And as I said, there are different grades of Nylon. I don't think that TPS' cable-knit looks cheap at all (click to enlarge):

On the white Sande 980 nylon gloves that I've seen a pic of, the nylon looked low-grade and cheap though, but that might have been the color.

[Vapor 0]

I would without a doubt go with nylon, all my recent gloves have been nylon. Portofino seems cheap to me, plus I think its ugly. Nylon is lighter, more tear resistant, and prettier in my opinion. But as Shark has said, it HAS to be high quality nylon. If you look at low end price point gloves that have nylon, they look CHEAP, compare that to say my gloves or pro gloves, they look nice

[wristshot19 0]

I also voted nylon because of the weight and drying advantages. If you keep your high end glove completely nylon but decrease the nylon and increase the synthetic leather usage as you go lower in the glove line you can probably pull it off. People will start to see the increased synthetic leather usage and put it together that maybe nylon is the higher end material.

All customers have to do is hold a nylon and a synthetic leather pair of gloves at the same time to feel the weight advantage of nylon. You could even make the same high end pair out of both materials and call the nylon pair the Max Lite or something along those lines (maybe Max Pro).

[PMurphy17 25]

There are a lot of people being mis-lead to think that Nylon is some how better. Don't let the NHL use fool you. Syn leather is much better.

The gloves can me made just as light using syn leather. Plus there are ways to make it dry just as fast. I know this because its been done. Don't let the marketing hype confuse you. For a majority of non-professional hockey players syn leather pefect.

Even NHL players have been shocked to find out that leather is lighter when you show them. Ask yourself why you think Nylon is lighter than syn leather? Is it because someone told you it was?

Last year at Hespeler we make an exact knock off of a competitors (a glove that everyone here loves) NHL model for one of the players we were working with and made it 15-20grams lighter. Plus we made it more protective.

Want to hear a major advantage to using Nylon, it wears out faster. So tell me who benefits from the purchase of a $150-200 nylon glove if it wears out faster?

I'll give you some time to figure it out....

To keep with the topic... Sande push the syn leather, appearance and durability far exceed weight and your customers will be happy they aren't replacing the glove in a years time.

[jay 1]

While the nylon gloves didn't wear any better or worse for me playing ice (the palms will be long gone before either glove is toast) the inline floor was starting to chew up my pleather gloves in just a few weeks. Switched to a nylon pair and I've used them for months and they hardly have a mark on them. So is it worth developing a top of the line glove that will be more durable for inline players? I doubt it... but keep in mind, Buaer is doing just that with the new XXX glove. Looks like they'll be the first company to market nylon to the hockey masses.

[Dave 1]

I think we'd better differ: Not all Nylon is the same. Not all Synth Leather is the same. You can't compare apples to pears.

A good syn leather is without a doubt better than a bad Nylon. But you can't say in general "Syn Leather is more (or less) durable than Nylon"... it all depends on the exact material used. Same goes for the lightness or the drying factor.

I for my part cannot imagine (and I've never seen) any material (Nylon or Syn leather) that is tougher than TPS' cable-knit (which falls into the "Nylon" category).

Another factor that's not yet been mentioned is the extensibility of a good Nylon which makes a glove more flexible IMHO.

[Dave 1]

Don't let the marketing hype confuse you.

Ehm, sorry to disagree with you, but could you please tell me which company "hypes" Nylon as a glove material?

As of now, NO major glove manufaturer (not even the small Sande brand) puts a Nylon glove in the top-end retail market. TPS does offer the HGTs in cable-knit, but they do not advertise it a bit. Even Easton (the uncrowned king of marketing hype) does not advertise Nylon as a glove material; they don't even offer a retail Nylon glove.

So where is the marketing hype that we've all supposedly fallen for?

[2048 0]

Shark, you have to take into consideration how much of a cult following Sande has. Look at all the successful glove companies, they're leather. Bauer's coming out with the XXX, but Bauer's also had some great leather (well, syn leather) companies in the past. If Sande wants to grow, it has to establish itself before it can take risks that great. Face it, the average hockey player knows what a) fits in store and B) looks best. To most hockey players, nylon will always seem cheaper than leather no matter what glove it's on, and getting guys to pay as much for an unknown company's nylon glove is gonna be much harder than getting someone to pay as much for that company's syn leather glove.

[PMurphy17 25]

Shark,

lets take out the word "marketing". and just say plain hype. Marketing is done in many ways. I sure hope you consider Product placement part of marketing, otherwise JR would be talking about LMNOP Pro gloves. :lol:

Some members think that what the NHLers wear has to be the best and if they are wearing it then its good for everybody. A lot of the time the NHLers can't explain why they wear certain equipment.

[wristshot19 0]

There are a lot of people being mis-lead to think that Nylon is some how better. Don't let the NHL use fool you. Syn leather is much better.

I am not letting the NHL use fool me. I used the same pair of gloves in synthetic leather and then nylon (M-1 Pro) and I still use the nylon version today while the others went up on eBay. Prior to my M-1s I used nylon CCMs, leather Branches, and then leather TPS and only the CCMs could have competed with my current M-1s.

[Chadd 916]

A lot of the time the NHLers can't explain why they wear certain equipment.

In my experience most pro players don't know why they use certain things othen than, "it feels good". Most of our members are far more anal about equipment than pro players.

[Vapor 0]

There are a lot of people being mis-lead to think that Nylon is some how better. Don't let the NHL use fool you. Syn leather is much better.

The gloves can me made just as light using syn leather. Plus there are ways to make it dry just as fast. I know this because its been done. Don't let the marketing hype confuse you. For a majority of non-professional hockey players syn leather pefect.

Even NHL players have been shocked to find out that leather is lighter when you show them. Ask yourself why you think Nylon is lighter than syn leather? Is it because someone told you it was?

Last year at Hespeler we make an exact knock off of a competitors (a glove that everyone here loves) NHL model for one of the players we were working with and made it 15-20grams lighter. Plus we made it more protective.

Want to hear a major advantage to using Nylon, it wears out faster. So tell me who benefits from the purchase of a $150-200 nylon glove if it wears out faster?

I'll give you some time to figure it out....

To keep with the topic... Sande push the syn leather, appearance and durability far exceed weight and your customers will be happy they aren't replacing the glove in a years time.

That is all crap. Eagle uses high end synthetic leather (portofino) and high end nylong (balistic I believe). I have had 4 pair of gloves from eagle, 2 in leather and 2 in nylon, both nylon pair are Lighter, show less wear and tear, and are more flexible. Im sure you boys over at hesplet made a glove 15 grams lighter using synthetic leather, but you made it more protective? I dont believe it, unless you shorted up the cuff, or something, come on. People always ask me, what are those, cheap eagles? So its not for a fasion statment

[Chadd 916]

Just because it doesn't say Eagle, doesn't mean it's a bad product. Experimenting with different foams, inserts, thickness of outer shells and types of padding can easily change the weight of a glove. Note he sad it for an NHL player, not a retail product.

[Biskitindabaskit 0]

I have a pair of retail TPS HGTs. These are Synthetic Leather. I absolutely love these gloves. Crazy light and with awesome mobility and protection. My little brother has TPS pro stock HGTs in nylon with DIGITECH palms(his are lighter than mine). I would rather have a better palm like DIGITECH instead of nash (which is what i have now) My point is I think the average player would rather have a awesome palm rather than nylon.

[cds 0]

My point is I think the average player would rather have a awesome palm rather than nylon.

I would tend to disagree. The "average player" probably won't be as picky about the palm as they are with the looks, durability, protection, mobility, etc. of the glove. For some skilled players, a really nice palm might be the difference in whether to buy/not to buy a glove, but I think the average Joe has different priorities.

[Chadd 916]

My point is I think the average player would rather have a awesome palm rather than nylon.

I would tend to disagree. The "average player" probably won't be as picky about the palm as they are with the looks, durability, protection, mobility, etc. of the glove. For some skilled players, a really nice palm might be the difference in whether to buy/not to buy a glove, but I think the average Joe has different priorities.

I'd rather see the manufacturers put an extra buck or so into decent palms so most people don't feel they need a grip stick.

[cds 0]

Fair enough. However, I think the original discussion was assuming that all other components of the glove were the same except for the material being either pleather or nylon. You can put a good palm on both types of gloves.

[LetsGoWings13 0]

what even makes a good palm

[mack 44]

I haven't used leather or pleather since I had 1350s and that was over 10 years ago. I can't see myself going back, but if someone wants to test it I'm available for uh, freebies.

[DekeHead 0]

I really think it boils down to personal preference. There is definitely a ton of hype around this board for nylon. I remember the hype for ProGlo a few years back on the Easton and, later, CoreBeam boards. Somebody on this board gets excited by new gear, and it's infectious. Let's face it, most of us on this board are gear heads.

What it really boils down to is looks. All things considered, most players are going to buy what looks best to them on the rack. Synth Leather, I believe, looks better to most people, and will probably continue to outsell its nylon counterparts. Let's face it, it really is hard to get nylon looking as flashy as synthetic leather.

From what I've gathered from my own experience, the weight of my gloves have been negligible since my old lace-ups bit the dust. I've owned many pairs of gloves, and I tend to pitch them after a couple of seasons. Not because the nylon or pleather wore out, but because the palms were full of holes and the interior of the gloves were gross. These new gloves with their lighter materials and inserts definitely seem to have a finite useable life. Much like new skates, which, while lighter and stiffer, just don't last like their predecessors.

If Sande is selling to a very niche market like us, then maybe nylon is the way to go for now; however, to sell a ton of gloves to teenage house league players, ProGlo pimpalicious will reign supreme. Or perhaps some new Space Age material that's shiny and astronaut approved...

I know that Bauer will be making the XXX in nylon, but I think that the XX look awesome the way they are. I can't imagine that the nylon XXX will look better (probably the opposite - I can't wait to see); but if Bauer is moving to nylon for longegevity, then I appaude them. Typically it seems that the trend has been in the opposite direction.

[Biskitindabaskit 0]

I was just saying that palms mean way more to me personaly than nylon or synthetics.