Vapor X40 Skates, Flat Feet, Wide Feet, Narrow Heel, a Little Heel Slippage...Help Me Please :-)

[Rashiki 0]

Hi All,

I'm new to ice hockey, but I have found that I really love playing, even though I'm terrible! :-) As a beginner, I started off buying a used pair of Easton SE6 in a size 9.0 EE. After playing on those for about 4 times, I have come to realize the following:

- The skates are too big, as my toes never touch the toe cap when sitting down.

- When turning, I am on my heels too much (which is probably a lot to do with poor skating skills) and my toes raise up and down during skating (mainly when turning) and I have a blister on the inside of my big toe of my right foot.

- I have blisters on the inside of each foot's heal (just behind and below the inside ankle bone), presumably from the boot being too long.

- The boot pinches on the sides of each foot's Achilles tendon so badly that I actually had to leave the ice early last weekend.

After reading more about skates and how they should fit, I decided to go to a different store and try on all the skates I could. None of them fit me perfectly. The best fit, it seems, were the Bauer Vapor X40s. I liked that these had a more forward stance to counter me being on my heels. I bought an 8.0 EE. The length is perfect and they fit the best of all the skates, yet they still had the following:

- The tongue, when the laces are tied up, presses against the inside of my ankle bones and hurts. (I'm countering this by placing some foam behind the tongue to keep the tongue from wrapping far enough back to make it to the inside ankle bones.)

- Since I have fairly flat feet (my dad and sisters all have flat fee too), even these EE width boots were a little narrow on the bottom of my foot towards the middle back (just in front of the main meat of my heel).

I didn't want to have them baked because I want to be able to return them if I need to. I can't skate until Saturday, so I haven't sharpened them yet and I've wrapped the blades in hand towels and have been walking around the house in them. Through my obsessive behavior, I've noticed the following now:

- My left heel is locked in tight, but the right slips just a little bit. I can decrease the slippage by tightening the laces really tight, but then my foot starts to go numb.

So I was wondering...I've read that as the boot "breaks in", the heel may slip a little less. Is this true? How does that work? (I would think that more and more movement would create more slippage as the foam started to get broken down from the skating and movement in the heel area.)

Since it seems like I have a narrow heel and a foot that immediately gets wider from there, is there another brand that I should try that I haven't already? (I tried on the Bauer Vapor X15, Bauer Vapor X60, Bauer Vapor XXXX, Bauer Flexlite 3.0, Bauer Supreme One100, Graf G35 Ultra X, Reebok 11K, Reebok 7K, CCM Crazy Lites, and CCM U+09.) Unfortunately, when in the store, as a newbie, I wasn't focusing on the heel as much as I was the discomfort of the tongue hitting the inside ankle bones and the foot bed hurting (as most of the skates cause this immediate discomfort), so I can't say that I obsessed about the heel with these other skates like I've had the opportunity to do with these Bauer Vapor X40s. I wish I had. You'd think I would have after all my blister experiences, but alas, I did not.

So I was hoping someone might have some miraculous advice to help me out, even if it's, "Well, just get those sharpened, go skate on them for a couple hours, and see if you get blisters. If not, you're good to go." :-)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the help.

[nicksmission14 0]

Hi All,

I'm new to ice hockey, but I have found that I really love playing, even though I'm terrible! :-) As a beginner, I started off buying a used pair of Easton SE6 in a size 9.0 EE. After playing on those for about 4 times, I have come to realize the following:

- The skates are too big, as my toes never touch the toe cap when sitting down.

- When turning, I am on my heels too much (which is probably a lot to do with poor skating skills) and my toes raise up and down during skating (mainly when turning) and I have a blister on the inside of my big toe of my right foot.

- I have blisters on the inside of each foot's heal (just behind and below the inside ankle bone), presumably from the boot being too long.

- The boot pinches on the sides of each foot's Achilles tendon so badly that I actually had to leave the ice early last weekend.

After reading more about skates and how they should fit, I decided to go to a different store and try on all the skates I could. None of them fit me perfectly. The best fit, it seems, were the Bauer Vapor X40s. I liked that these had a more forward stance to counter me being on my heels. I bought an 8.0 EE. The length is perfect and they fit the best of all the skates, yet they still had the following:

- The tongue, when the laces are tied up, presses against the inside of my ankle bones and hurts. (I'm countering this by placing some foam behind the tongue to keep the tongue from wrapping far enough back to make it to the inside ankle bones.)

- Since I have fairly flat feet (my dad and sisters all have flat fee too), even these EE width boots were a little narrow on the bottom of my foot towards the middle back (just in front of the main meat of my heel).

I didn't want to have them baked because I want to be able to return them if I need to. I can't skate until Saturday, so I haven't sharpened them yet and I've wrapped the blades in hand towels and have been walking around the house in them. Through my obsessive behavior, I've noticed the following now:

- My left heel is locked in tight, but the right slips just a little bit. I can decrease the slippage by tightening the laces really tight, but then my foot starts to go numb.

So I was wondering...I've read that as the boot "breaks in", the heel may slip a little less. Is this true? How does that work? (I would think that more and more movement would create more slippage as the foam started to get broken down from the skating and movement in the heel area.)

Since it seems like I have a narrow heel and a foot that immediately gets wider from there, is there another brand that I should try that I haven't already? (I tried on the Bauer Vapor X15, Bauer Vapor X60, Bauer Vapor XXXX, Bauer Flexlite 3.0, Bauer Supreme One100, Graf G35 Ultra X, Reebok 11K, Reebok 7K, CCM Crazy Lites, and CCM U+09.) Unfortunately, when in the store, as a newbie, I wasn't focusing on the heel as much as I was the discomfort of the tongue hitting the inside ankle bones and the foot bed hurting (as most of the skates cause this immediate discomfort), so I can't say that I obsessed about the heel with these other skates like I've had the opportunity to do with these Bauer Vapor X40s. I wish I had. You'd think I would have after all my blister experiences, but alas, I did not.

So I was hoping someone might have some miraculous advice to help me out, even if it's, "Well, just get those sharpened, go skate on them for a couple hours, and see if you get blisters. If not, you're good to go." :-)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the help.

Ahh sounds like we have similar feet.

The Vapor heel does not work very well for people who have narrow heels, in my opinion, some may disagree but that's been my experience. My heel is very narrow and I've never ever been able to get a Vapor to lock my heel properly. If you have heel lock problems I wouldn't try to use those skates, you'll never really be happy with them.

I can not use a stock footbed, it kills my feet. I've got a completely flat left foot with a "normal" right. Superfeet make a world of difference if you have abnormal feet.

I would try on skates again, this time using Superfeet in all of them. It will change how all the skates feel, volume etc. The Supreme series w/ the Alive does a really good job with heel lock. In my opinion the stealth line locks the heel well also.

The important thing is finding the right boot, the steel can be profiled to put you on your toes.

[Rashiki 0]

Ahh sounds like we have similar feet.

The Vapor heel does not work very well for people who have narrow heels, in my opinion, some may disagree but that's been my experience. My heel is very narrow and I've never ever been able to get a Vapor to lock my heel properly. If you have heel lock problems I wouldn't try to use those skates, you'll never really be happy with them.

I can not use a stock footbed, it kills my feet. I've got a completely flat left foot with a "normal" right. Superfeet make a world of difference if you have abnormal feet.

I would try on skates again, this time using Superfeet in all of them. It will change how all the skates feel, volume etc. The Supreme series w/ the Alive does a really good job with heel lock. In my opinion the stealth line locks the heel well also.

The important thing is finding the right boot, the steel can be profiled to put you on your toes.

Thanks for the advice. I've noticed that there are different Superfeet models. Is there one you suggest?

Also, how "locked" should a heel be in your skates? Should there be absolutely no slippage at all? None? And should a good, high end pair of skates remain that way for a long time, or is future slippage (especially with feet like mine) to be expected at some point in time down the line?

Thanks again.

[Andoy 5]

They should be secured in that heel pocket. Unfortunately as the padding breaks down with use you might find your right heel slipping more. If you have to crank your laces to get it to work then it sounds like you may not have the correct fit. Vapors have not worked for me because of this very reason. Have you tried the Supreme line?

[nicksmission14 0]

Thanks for the advice. I've noticed that there are different Superfeet models. Is there one you suggest?

Also, how "locked" should a heel be in your skates? Should there be absolutely no slippage at all? None? And should a good, high end pair of skates remain that way for a long time, or is future slippage (especially with feet like mine) to be expected at some point in time down the line?

Thanks again.

Superfeet Yellow. Try those, and make sure you try them in all the skates you try. They do change the fit of the skate a little bit sometimes.

You shouldn't have any heel slippage at all.

A pair of high end skates will last a real long long time, assuming there are no defects. Especially if you are just playing rec league.

Like the gentleman above me said try the Supreme.. In my opinion it's a better fit for a narrower heel, see if the rest of the skate fits your foot ok. With the Alive technology it's pretty impressive how well they mold to your feet.

[Rashiki 0]

Superfeet Yellow. Try those, and make sure you try them in all the skates you try. They do change the fit of the skate a little bit sometimes.

You shouldn't have any heel slippage at all.

A pair of high end skates will last a real long long time, assuming there are no defects. Especially if you are just playing rec league.

Like the gentleman above me said try the Supreme.. In my opinion it's a better fit for a narrower heel, see if the rest of the skate fits your foot ok. With the Alive technology it's pretty impressive how well they mold to your feet.

Thanks guys. I will trek down to the store again this weekend and try the Supremes on again.

One final question, though, please. In regards to "the right skate for your feet", do you believe that "the right skate boot for my feet" should hug my heel without any slippage at all and without having to do baking? I don't know the science behind it all, but I just have a gut feeling that "the right boot for me" should hug my feet right out of the box. And since everyone talks about baking just being a means of cutting down on break-in time (and I'm not really sure what "break-in" time really means, or does), does that mean that if I choose not to bake, I should get that "suction cup fit" eventually just by using "the right skates for my feet"?

Thanks!

[Andoy 5]

Thanks guys. I will trek down to the store again this weekend and try the Supremes on again.

One final question, though, please. In regards to "the right skate for your feet", do you believe that "the right skate boot for my feet" should hug my heel without any slippage at all and without having to do baking? I don't know the science behind it all, but I just have a gut feeling that "the right boot for me" should hug my feet right out of the box. And since everyone talks about baking just being a means of cutting down on break-in time (and I'm not really sure what "break-in" time really means, or does), does that mean that if I choose not to bake, I should get that "suction cup fit" eventually just by using "the right skates for my feet"?

Thanks!

Yes you are right for the most part although in the case of some skates like the higher end Supreme skates (One80 One95/100 TotalOne) and other skates (KOR) NEED to get baked to get the proper fit.

And don't stop with the questions, that's what this board is all about!

[t6lock 24]

I have x40's and the break in time after I baked them was maybe about 2 skates/games and they pretty much have felt superb since. Baking them definitely helps, but breaking them in is where the skates adapt flex and stretch to your skating style, since everyone has a unique skating style. And yes, I would lean towards a skate that fits better right out of the box. I like to tie my skates really tight and for maybe about a week or 2 I was getting a little pain around my ankles, but as I kept skating in them it just went away.

[Rashiki 0]

Yes you are right for the most part although in the case of some skates like the higher end Supreme skates (One80 One95/100 TotalOne) and other skates (KOR) NEED to get baked to get the proper fit.

And don't stop with the questions, that's what this board is all about!

Well, since you invited me to ask more questions...

Here's my biggest fear. Dropping $600/$800 on skates, having them baked and sharpened, only to come to find out that after a few hours of use, they don't really fit well after all, or they're slipping now, and I can't return them. How does one truly avoid that? Would you say that before baking, skates should fit me comfortably and perfectly in every way up to about 95%? 99%?

I'm not sure how long manufacturers have been making skates with the explicit intention of baking, but what did people do before bake-able skates? (Unless the answer above was that they should fit 95% to 99% perfectly before baking, then I'm with you already.)

As you can tell, spending money on skates like this, I kind of don't mind doing it, but only if I know that I've done everything else right first that is going to ensure that I get "the perfect skate fit" and that the skates are going to last me for many years to come. (I know that skates probably aren't made to last today like they used to, but I'd still like to get many years out of mine because I really won't be playing anything beyond recreational leagues and pickup games.)

I can't begin to tell you how absolutely bummed I'd feel if they just didn't fit right after spending that kind of money on skates. And I'm sure my wife, though pretty supportive right now, would not be too happy either.

[pizzakid13 5]

I can't begin to tell you how absolutely bummed I'd feel if they just didn't fit right after spending that kind of money on skates.

i hear ya. i wore graf 704s for almost 10 years. they fit like a glove. a little tight on the top of my feet but i just left the laces a little loose on top. well, as stated earlier, skates do not last forever. this summer, they finally gave way and i could no longer turn without the boot giving in. they dont make 704s anymore but they do make 703 which is the same basic boot. but nobody really carries them around here and i did not want to buy without trying on. graf were on sale so i only tried on the grafs and i think a vapor. the 705s felt better than the vapor and overall, pretty good out of the box but not perfect. bought them for 300(good deal) and got 'em baked and sharpened etc. played hockey and noticed that my left foot was rubbing painfully against the part where the toebox meets the side panel. my left foot is slightly smaller than the right which fit better. so, i got it punched with minimal change. the pain does go away(numb) after a little skating but it does not feel snug and pain free like it should. so, i just started back with socks and that has helped but if i had only tried on the supremes then, i would never have been here.

moral of story: try them all on, period.

[Chadd 916]

So I was wondering...I've read that as the boot "breaks in", the heel may slip a little less. Is this true? How does that work? (I would think that more and more movement would create more slippage as the foam started to get broken down from the skating and movement in the heel area.)

The heel will slip more after wear and baking.

[epstud74 24]

i hear ya. i wore graf 704s for almost 10 years. they fit like a glove. a little tight on the top of my feet but i just left the laces a little loose on top. well, as stated earlier, skates do not last forever. this summer, they finally gave way and i could no longer turn without the boot giving in. they dont make 704s anymore but they do make 703 which is the same basic boot. but nobody really carries them around here and i did not want to buy without trying on. graf were on sale so i only tried on the grafs and i think a vapor. the 705s felt better than the vapor and overall, pretty good out of the box but not perfect. bought them for 300(good deal) and got 'em baked and sharpened etc. played hockey and noticed that my left foot was rubbing painfully against the part where the toebox meets the side panel. my left foot is slightly smaller than the right which fit better. so, i got it punched with minimal change. the pain does go away(numb) after a little skating but it does not feel snug and pain free like it should. so, i just started back with socks and that has helped but if i had only tried on the supremes then, i would never have been here.

moral of story: try them all on, period.

Have you tried the Graf 735?

Doesnt Easton seem to accomodate feet that are slightly wide with a narrow heel and flatter arch?

[pizzakid13 5]

Have you tried the Graf 735?

yes, i tried them on but they did not fit in the forefoot at all. too tight. i guess my foot flares out a little towards the toes but it cant be that much. i'm only 5-11, 165.

[Rashiki 0]

Well, I went today and tried on some Easton Stealth S17 skates and some Graf Ultra G35 X. The Easton killed the area on the side of my Achilles tendon, as my current pair, and the mesh liner of the Grafs causes my heel to slip a bit still. Not worth it.

I did meet a really nice salesman at the shop today, though. I talked with him for a little while. I've come to the conclusion that I will go the route of custom skates, so I'm going to look through all the current threads here I can find about it all: what I can expect, what the cost is, where to go in my area, etc. I'd rather do that than continue to have nothing, or skate with ill-fitting boots, etc. Since customization is on high end skates only, I'm sure they'll last me a very long time, which is totally my style.

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

[doodman 0]

Flat feet? narrow heel? I got that exactly. I tried bauer skates for a year, had em punched, still no good.

The only brands that worked for me are RBKs or CCM. RBK even has a AA size which is for narrow heel. Please tell me you tried on rbks...remember YOU have to wear em, even if the salesman doesn't recommend them, you need to try em on.

[nicksmission14 0]

Well, I went today and tried on some Easton Stealth S17 skates and some Graf Ultra G35 X. The Easton killed the area on the side of my Achilles tendon, as my current pair, and the mesh liner of the Grafs causes my heel to slip a bit still. Not worth it.

I did meet a really nice salesman at the shop today, though. I talked with him for a little while. I've come to the conclusion that I will go the route of custom skates, so I'm going to look through all the current threads here I can find about it all: what I can expect, what the cost is, where to go in my area, etc. I'd rather do that than continue to have nothing, or skate with ill-fitting boots, etc. Since customization is on high end skates only, I'm sure they'll last me a very long time, which is totally my style.

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

If custom is the route you decided to go, make sure the person who is fitting you is top notch or it can be a disaster.

[Rashiki 0]

Flat feet? narrow heel? I got that exactly. I tried bauer skates for a year, had em punched, still no good.

The only brands that worked for me are RBKs or CCM. RBK even has a AA size which is for narrow heel. Please tell me you tried on rbks...remember YOU have to wear em, even if the salesman doesn't recommend them, you need to try em on.

Yeah. I tried on CCMs and Reeboks. CCMs were crazy narrow in the footbed (tried on a wide) and the heel still slipped too. I tried on some Reebok 11Ks and the heels slipped like crazy too, plus the lace locking mechanism drove me crazy within the time I was just lacing them up to try them on.

If custom is the route you decided to go, make sure the person who is fitting you is top notch or it can be a disaster.

Yeah. That's what I figured. From what I have gathered from reading through many posts here, JR seems to be really good, but I live no where near Michigan, and it seems like he doesn't just fit anyone. I think I'm going to start another thread asking for advice on where to go that's not too insanely far away. I live in western Massachusetts. So far it seems like TSR in New Hampshire is good and the Ice House Pro Shop in Hackensack, New Jersey is good too, run by DarkStar50. Are those 2 shops top notch for fitting custom skates?

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

Yeah. I tried on CCMs and Reeboks. CCMs were crazy narrow in the footbed (tried on a wide) and the heel still slipped too. I tried on some Reebok 11Ks and the heels slipped like crazy too, plus the lace locking mechanism drove me crazy within the time I was just lacing them up to try them on.

Yeah. That's what I figured. From what I have gathered from reading through many posts here, JR seems to be really good, but I live no where near Michigan, and it seems like he doesn't just fit anyone. I think I'm going to start another thread asking for advice on where to go that's not too insanely far away. I live in western Massachusetts. So far it seems like TSR in New Hampshire is good and the Ice House Pro Shop in Hackensack, New Jersey is good too, run by DarkStar50. Are those 2 shops top notch for fitting custom skates?

no icing sports is probably another place to check out

[Rashiki 0]

So that I don't get in trouble for starting a new thread and since it's related to my conclusion of wanting to get fitted for custom skates, I thought I'd ask here first. (I'm hoping that JR might be willing to thrown down an answer too.)

When you have a pair of custom skates fitted, if they are fitted well, should you still need to do any baking at all to fully complete the fit? Or is it that if a pair of custom skates are fitted properly, they should never need any baking once they're received from the factory and you try them on for the first time? (Or maybe absolutes aren't even appropriate.)

Thanks!

[reverseit 0]

So that I don't get in trouble for starting a new thread and since it's related to my conclusion of wanting to get fitted for custom skates, I thought I'd ask here first. (I'm hoping that JR might be willing to thrown down an answer too.)

When you have a pair of custom skates fitted, if they are fitted well, should you still need to do any baking at all to fully complete the fit? Or is it that if a pair of custom skates are fitted properly, they should never need any baking once they're received from the factory and you try them on for the first time? (Or maybe absolutes aren't even appropriate.)

Thanks!

In some of the skate reviews that people have posted on MSH, I've seen them say their custom skates almost felt like they didn't need to baked out of the box. But they bake 'em anyway and it's even better. With how stiff top of the line skates are these days, you might never really form them to your feet if you don't bake them.

[Rashiki 0]

In some of the skate reviews that people have posted on MSH, I've seen them say their custom skates almost felt like they didn't need to baked out of the box. But they bake 'em anyway and it's even better. With how stiff top of the line skates are these days, you might never really form them to your feet if you don't bake them.

Thanks. I guess they can only do so much at the factory since they still use standardized lasts and not a cast of my actual foot. That makes sense.

[hunterphfr 12]

Depending on how wide your feet are custom fit is probably your only choice. Your feet sound similar to mine, except I have the added pleasure of abnormally short as well. I would definately have them baked, the custom process will fit your foot as far as size abnormalities outside of society's norms. Baking will allow the skate to mold to the shape of your feet and help decrease negative space.