Hoping my skate issues are finally coming to an end

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http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/30621-figured-id-post-up-some-pictures-of-my-skate-issue/page__st__15__p__421504__hl__pronation__fromsearch__1#entry421504

Some may remember that thread I started a few years back. I had no good final result after years of self diagnosis, so I stopped playing. I couldn't stay away from the game anymore so I decided to something about it.

First, I happen to come across a thread by MsConduct wear JR posted pictures of her skates from the backside. I knew instantly for sure that my problem was pronation.

Second, I contacted a professional skate fitter on this board in my area who knows what they are doing. He's been very helpful so far.

Third, I saw a podiatrist. I should have done this 5-6 years ago when I started having this problem.

Turns out I have 10 degrees varus in my left foot and 5 degrees in my right foot. Translation heavy pronation on the left and some on the right. Also helps explain why I can't run anymore without getting shin splints.

The lab now has the tricky part of building the right orthotic that will work in harmony with the skates, which they seem confident as they have claim to have done many skates before. We'll see. At this point I'm prepared for a custom if that's the outcome. Shimming may also be another possibility.

I decided to post this so when someone posts foot problems or pronation, maybe after reading this they will decide to get it checked out instead of wasting time and tons of money like I did.

I'd like to Thank the MSH community, JR (for his expert posts) and DarkStar50 (putting up with me). You all are helping save my Hockey Career. Thank you again.

So some can see what I am talking about, here is a shot of my feet in skates from the back.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Custom won't necessarily fix that - would still need a combination of orthotics or shims.

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Yep that's what I meant to say im prepared for customs on top of orthodics and shimming if they are necessary. Just didn't word it right :)

Hoping the orthotics don't take up a ton of volume requiring something custom, but it is what it is at this point.

[jimmy 194]

That's good news. Glad you finally went to the pro. For years I've said, skaters should see their foot Dr before doing anything to their skates. Also, not to trust the "skate" guy to come up with the correction. Leave that up to the podiatrist, only he/she is properly trained. It saddens me when I hear stories of the skate guy who has the skater to walk around the store, then recommend shims at whim. I discussed this at length with the podiatrist my wife worked for and he told me the wrong correction can lead to health problems.

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That's good news. Glad you finally went to the pro. For years I've said, skaters should see their foot Dr before doing anything to their skates. Also, not to trust the "skate" guy to come up with the correction. Leave that up to the podiatrist, only he/she is properly trained. It saddens me when I hear stories of the skate guy who has the skater to walk around the store, then recommend shims at whim. I discussed this at length with the podiatrist my wife worked for and he told me the wrong correction can lead to health problems.

Thanks Jimmy. It was the best thing I've done for myself. I'd recommend any skater to go do this. I could have prevented years worth of headaches, but if it wasn't for this board no one would have ever told me that's what I ultimately needed to do. So I'm grateful for that as the alternative was not playing the game I love anymore.

When you hear some of the potential problems that can occur from not correcting this sort of thing it's scary.

I know everyone has different opinions, but when my podiatrist saw my Superfeet, he actually didn't knock them. He said they are fine for a very mild problem... but he also said no way can they support the body mass of someone who needs a lot of correction. He then showed me a flex test and you can kind of see they bend way to much under a load to help someone like me.

Should have known better when I tried 10 different skate models and the same problem existed in all of them. It should have never gotten that far. That's why it's imperative you find the absolute best skate fitter you can find and pay whatever their price for skates is. Seriously even if they are more than they internet or another shop their service is worth way more than that 50 bucks.

Just my .02 cents.

[Dr. Funk 6]

Nick,

Glad to hear that you're on the right track. I'm in a similar situation, with about seven degrees of pronation on the left (neutral on the right). I'd struggled for years with fits that were "good enough," but I was having a progressively harder time as I got older. I actually happened upon this solution, considering that I play in a mens' league with a foot/ankle orthopaedist (I'm an ED doc myself, and play with a bunch of other old healthcare guys). He instantly saw my issue in the locker room, and was gracious enough to provide me with pro bono assistance.

I'm currently in custom totalONEs with orthotics, and I couldn't be happier. It's been my experience that my footbeds don't take up a tremendous amount of room. Hopefully you'll be in the same boat; however, I'd think that a good custom skate guy would be able to accommodate the increased volume in the boot. I had to change my lacing pattern a bit to adjust to a properly-aligned boot, and there was a bit of an adjustment period once my left runner was truly perpendicular to the ice.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

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Nick,

Glad to hear that you're on the right track. I'm in a similar situation, with about seven degrees of pronation on the left (neutral on the right). I'd struggled for years with fits that were "good enough," but I was having a progressively harder time as I got older. I actually happened upon this solution, considering that I play in a mens' league with a foot/ankle orthopaedist (I'm an ED doc myself, and play with a bunch of other old healthcare guys). He instantly saw my issue in the locker room, and was gracious enough to provide me with pro bono assistance.

I'm currently in custom totalONEs with orthotics, and I couldn't be happier. It's been my experience that my footbeds don't take up a tremendous amount of room. Hopefully you'll be in the same boat; however, I'd think that a good custom skate guy would be able to accommodate the increased volume in the boot. I had to change my lacing pattern a bit to adjust to a properly-aligned boot, and there was a bit of an adjustment period once my left runner was truly perpendicular to the ice.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the support! Glad to hear there are other people who have been in my situation and are making out well, gives me a lot of hope.

I'm thinking I will probably need customs even with the orthotics. DarkStar50 has been helping me out a lot, feel very confident in my choice to use him for my skate fitting.

My foot doc said I'll have to re-invent my skating. He says it's going to a feel a world different having both edges and may even change my skate preference, which I anticipated and I'm extremely happy that I'll finally have use of both edges good.

[Axxion89 32]

Deffinetely tell us how it goes for you, I have custom orthotics on the way from the podiatrist and am hoping they fit well in my skates as well.

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Deffinetely tell us how it goes for you, I have custom orthotics on the way from the podiatrist and am hoping they fit well in my skates as well.

Yea outside of the orthotics actually working, that's my biggest concern. We'll find out I probably won't have them for at least 3 weeks.

[AfftonDad 88]

My son's left ankle looks like yours. He has hypermobility in his ankles and he wears custom orthotics in his daily "tennis" shoes. I would like to try them in his skates but I think they would take up too much volume AND they are only three quarters length so I think the rivets would be a problem. They are paid for by insurance but I don't know if insurance would pay for a second pair made specifically for his skates. If they wouldn't I don't think I can pay $300 for skates PLUS $300 for custom orthotics every six months. We have been using the yellow superfeet. We'll probably have to stick with those.

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My son's left ankle looks like yours. He has hypermobility in his ankles and he wears custom orthotics in his daily "tennis" shoes. I would like to try them in his skates but I think they would take up too much volume AND they are only three quarters length so I think the rivets would be a problem. They are paid for by insurance but I don't know if insurance would pay for a second pair made specifically for his skates. If they wouldn't I don't think I can pay $300 for skates PLUS $300 for custom orthotics every six months. We have been using the yellow superfeet. We'll probably have to stick with those.

If the yellow superfeet are working for him now that's great. As you know Orthotics are big $$$$ so not always practical.

Maybe you could ask your Podiatrist how much approximately your son's foot needs to be elevated and a good skate person could shim the proper amount. Then he'd have a combo of the Superfeet and shimming which I think would help more? Maybe one of the experts could jump in on that.

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Just figured I'd give an update. Got the orthotics in.. they were too short. Had to send me another pair, the lab stepped up and got them done right away and paid next day shipping. I was happy about that.

The orthotics feel pretty amazing so far. Even in a skate that didn't really fit me great, my left foot was completely stable and not rolling inward. I was really really happy.

I was fitted by DarkStar50 for my customs today and I couldn't say enough positive things. Very very informative and very detailed fitting. By the time I left I was ecstatic.

To sum it up, I have really narrow small feet and Peter was able to get my squared away :)

[Katzenjammer 1]

Just figured I'd give an update. Got the orthotics in.. they were too short. Had to send me another pair, the lab stepped up and got them done right away and paid next day shipping. I was happy about that.

The orthotics feel pretty amazing so far. Even in a skate that didn't really fit me great, my left foot was completely stable and not rolling inward. I was really really happy.

I was fitted by DarkStar50 for my customs today and I couldn't say enough positive things. Very very informative and very detailed fitting. By the time I left I was ecstatic.

To sum it up, I have really narrow small feet and Peter was able to get my squared away :)

What exactly is your orthotic doing?

I've had a similar issue with my right foot/leg pronating slightly - it's very tricky; a professional ski boot fitter solved it for me: he pointed out that many orthotics make it worse because they are built assuming a solid/static surface.

Think about this visually: if you pronate inwards, and assume a solid surface when measuring/forming/building the orthotic, the orthotic will effectively place more material under the inside of the foot, and wedge it so that it forces the foot into a more neutral position. That works well with running because the hard surface of the track or field forces the foot and entire kinetic chain into a more neutral, better biomechanical position.

Here's the problem: on skis/skates, there's effectively no solid surface (snow has give and skates are unstable) to force you into the right position. Instead, what happens is that when you stand on those orthotics, the effective pronation is increased because now your foot/leg are in the same position as before and the skate/ski is forced into a greater inside edge angle.

edited the above for type

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What exactly is your orthotic doing?

I've had a similar issue with my right foot/leg pronating slightly - it's very tricky; a professional ski boot fitter solved it for me: he pointed out that many orthotics make it worse because they are built assuming a solid/static surface.

Think about this visually: if you pronate inwards, and assume a solid surface when measuring/forming/building the orthotic, the orthotic will effectively place more material under the inside of the foot, and wedge it so that it forces the foot into a more neutral position. That works well with running because the hard surface of the track or field forces the foot and entire kinetic chain into a more neutral, better biomechanical position.

Here's the problem: on skis/skates, there's effectively no solid surface (snow has give and skates are unstable) to force you into the right position. Instead, what happens is that when you stand on those orthotics, the effective pronation is increased because now your foot/leg are in the same position as before and the skate/ski is not forced into a greater inside edge angle.

I don't know, but I can tell you that my left foot is very flat and pronates quite a bit it would cause my tendon guard to roll in quite a bit. I can tell you with the Orthotic in, it's not doing that now. So whatever it's doing, it seems to be working. The lab specifically did these for Hockey skates and they have done them for professional players as well...

The Combination of the Custom Skate/Orthotic should be the answer for me...

[Katzenjammer 1]

I don't know, but I can tell you that my left foot is very flat and pronates quite a bit it would cause my tendon guard to roll in quite a bit. I can tell you with the Orthotic in, it's not doing that now. So whatever it's doing, it seems to be working. The lab specifically did these for Hockey skates and they have done them for professional players as well...

Thanks - two questions: 1. where did you get them done - what lab? 2. so I assume that you have an orthotic that's thick on the inside (where your arch should be) and progressively thinner towards the ouside of the foot? Is that approximately it?

I'm very curious to hear how they work out once you're on the ice and you forget about them. Will you be updating here?

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Yep I'll be updating here. I wish I took a picture of them.

You are pretty much 100% on. The most unique thing is the shape of the support blocks. I'll get the name of the lab that did them when I get home, from what I gather they only work with Podiatrists.

I think Peter will attest that block for my left foot is pretty big. One saving grace is I have a very shallow foot depth so the orthotic is not as huge of a problem as I thought it would be. If you have really thick feet I could imagine it being a really big problem if someone needed my level of correction.

I know a few players off hand, Alfredsson, Chara and Brule use Orthotics in their skates.

[Katzenjammer 1]

thanks, great, I'll check in again.

I'd love to see a picture. Great thread - I think most skaters could benefit with tweaking their footbeds, to be honest.

[Jordan 13]

I can tell you that my daughter (competitive figue skater) has skated with custom orthotics at the suggestion of her coach for the last three years.

She was knock-kneed and as result over pronanted. They made a tremeandous difference in her skating. Further, a number of her team mates have gone down the same road with a lot of success.

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Tentative shipping date of June 12th. Can't wait to get back in the mix.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Tentative shipping date of June 12th. Can't wait to get back in the mix.

you must be eagerly awaiting them! Any chance you can post the lab who did them?

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you must be eagerly awaiting them! Any chance you can post the lab who did them?

Can't wait.

Certainly, Sorry I got the information and forgot to post it for you. My insoles don't look anything like the one's they have listed in their catalog. Mine are a custom design for Bauer Skates. The biggest difference I notice is my orthotics do not have a crazy heel lift. They sit perfect in the boot in the heel area.

Langer Biomechanics

[WSjo22 1]

My son's left ankle looks like yours. He has hypermobility in his ankles and he wears custom orthotics in his daily "tennis" shoes. I would like to try them in his skates but I think they would take up too much volume AND they are only three quarters length so I think the rivets would be a problem. They are paid for by insurance but I don't know if insurance would pay for a second pair made specifically for his skates. If they wouldn't I don't think I can pay $300 for skates PLUS $300 for custom orthotics every six months. We have been using the yellow superfeet. We'll probably have to stick with those.

Don't know where you're located or where your sons orthotics come from but I wear mine in my skates but had my skates made around them. However, when I was playing football in college the team trainer used to send my spikes to the company that I get my orthotics from and they made the orthotic to the shoe perfectly. I paid for them all out of pocket and I believe they only cost me around $100 and one set lasted me 4 years

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Not too much longer. I'll be sure to update everyone when they come in.

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Pete e-mailed me today, Skates are in! I'll be driving to NJ tomorrow afternoon to go get them. Can't wait.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Pete e-mailed me today, Skates are in! I'll be driving to NJ tomorrow afternoon to go get them. Can't wait.

Looking forward to hearing how it works for you!