My experience with No Icing Sports and Step V-Steel

[Rashiki 0]

I recently got my first pair of new skates. My first first pair were used ones that I bought a month earlier and they didn't fit properly, so I don't really count them. Before I bought my new skates, I had heard on this site about No Icing Sports and TSR Hockey and had contemplated driving up to them to see if they might be able to help with skate fitting because I wasn't having much luck with the local shops' ability to help with fitting. I ended up emailing Bob at No Icing and he was helpful with skate information. I ended up buying skates locally. Afterward, I read through all the No Icing pages and liked their idea of buying an extra pair of runners to have on hand, the sound of their sharpening experience, and that they would redo the work for free until you found the right profile and sharpening type that you liked. Great!

So I filled out their skater profile form from and Bob gave me a recommendation. I ordered the runners and profiling and also thought, why not try the "better" steel? So I bought the Step V-Steel. I didn't end up liking the setup because I couldn't hold my edge when turning. So I emailed Bob and he said that it was likely the FBV cut, that he would gladly re-sharpen them with a normal hollow for me for free, but that it would be too expensive for me to ship them to him and pay for return shipping, so I should take them to my local shop instead. Hmm. I realize he was probably trying to be economically helpful (and I'm sure readers, not in my shoes, with the benefit of an objective perspective, would agree with that), but it definitely did not come across that way to me. And since it costs me $10 in gas to get to and from my closest local shop, plus the sharpening fee, it wasn't really cheaper. "But, whatever," I thought. So I had them sharpened with a regular hollow at a local shop, skated on them right after, and they were better for me.

When I got home, I was looking at the runners and noticed that both of them had some slight curving/bending in them. I had read on here that the holders could cause this, so I took the runners out of the holders and they were still bent. I looked at my LS2 runners and saw that these were not bent, so I concluded that it wasn't the holders after all. So I emailed Bob, told him about the bent runners, how it didn't seem to be the holders, that I'd like to see about having the runners replaced, and asked how I should proceed with that . He replied that it was probably the holders (sigh) and that they should be re-aligned. As for the runners, he said that I could either bend the steel back by hand, or take them to a local shop and have them straighten them. Again. "Go elsewhere."

Now I don't hate my local shops, but I was hoping that No Icing Sports would handle this for me since I got the runners there, but again, I was told to go elsewhere. So I thought I would try calling Step, the company. I spoke with Guillaume from Step Steel on the phone. I told him the situation, he seemed very eager to help, and he said he would talk to No Icing and if he couldn't work it out with them, then he'd handle it. Great! So Guillaume called back later and wasn't quite as positive sounding this time. He said that I'd need to send a photo of the runners to prove that they were bent, or mail the runners in. I told him that I didn't have a good digital camera, but I would give it a try. I tried and it didn't work out. So I emailed Guillaume, told him the photos didn't work out, and asked for his mailing address to send the runners in. Two days passed. No reply. I had my first ever ice hockey game that night and wanted to use the new runners, but was really frustrated at this point that things weren't working out, customer service wise, with the runners. (Yes, I realize that I wouldn't have been able to use the new runners for my first game if I had mailed them in, but it was the customer service situation that had me frustrated. Not the fact that I wouldn't be able to use them for my first game.) So I thought, "Whatever. I'll try and bend them back like Bob said." Tried it. Snap! Bad idea. I should have thought of another solution. I should have come here to this group for help. I should have calmed down, but my frustration got the better of me. I hope I will have learned from it. Angry and frustrated, I put my LS2 runners back in and went to the game.

I eventually calmed down about having to eat $130 (price includes profiling, sharpening, and shipping) on busted runners and then, 9 days later after emailing Guillaume at Step Steel, he called back. Ha, ha. He said, "I got your email about the photos not working out. So you can send the runners in, but it would be too expensive, so you should have them straightened at a local shop." Ha, ha! Again with the "go elsewhere" line. Awesome. So I told him it didn't matter anymore. That I tried to bend the runners back by hand as Bob suggested and the runner snapped. He asked, "Who suggested that?" I said, "Bob." He asked, "Bob from No Icing?" I said, "Yes." Guillaume was silent. I said, "It doesn't matter. I've already accepted the fact that I'm going to have to eat it. But I know that I'm never going to buy from No Icing Sports again and I'm never going to buy Step Steel again." He said he would try to talk to his manager again, but that it wasn't hopeful that they would be able to do anything. Don't worry. I'll keep my hopes low.

[Justin Liedloff 13]

This whole post is on too many levels to count.

[trukweaz 3]

I recently got my first pair of new skates. My first first pair were used ones that I bought a month earlier and they didn't fit properly, so I don't really count them. Before I bought my new skates, I had heard on this site about No Icing Sports and TSR Hockey and had contemplated driving up to them to see if they might be able to help with skate fitting because I wasn't having much luck with the local shops' ability to help with fitting. I ended up emailing Bob at No Icing and he was helpful with skate information. I ended up buying skates locally. Afterward, I read through all the No Icing pages and liked their idea of buying an extra pair of runners to have on hand, the sound of their sharpening experience, and that they would redo the work for free until you found the right profile and sharpening type that you liked. Great!

So I filled out their skater profile form from and Bob gave me a recommendation. I ordered the runners and profiling and also thought, why not try the "better" steel? So I bought the Step V-Steel. I didn't end up liking the setup because I couldn't hold my edge when turning. So I emailed Bob and he said that it was likely the FBV cut, that he would gladly re-sharpen them with a normal hollow for me for free, but that it would be too expensive for me to ship them to him and pay for return shipping, so I should take them to my local shop instead. Hmm. I realize he was probably trying to be economically helpful (and I'm sure readers, not in my shoes, with the benefit of an objective perspective, would agree with that), but it definitely did not come across that way to me. And since it costs me $10 in gas to get to and from my closest local shop, plus the sharpening fee, it wasn't really cheaper. "But, whatever," I thought. So I had them sharpened with a regular hollow at a local shop, skated on them right after, and they were better for me.

When I got home, I was looking at the runners and noticed that both of them had some slight curving/bending in them. I had read on here that the holders could cause this, so I took the runners out of the holders and they were still bent. I looked at my LS2 runners and saw that these were not bent, so I concluded that it wasn't the holders after all. So I emailed Bob, told him about the bent runners, how it didn't seem to be the holders, that I'd like to see about having the runners replaced, and asked how I should proceed with that . He replied that it was probably the holders (sigh) and that they should be re-aligned. As for the runners, he said that I could either bend the steel back by hand, or take them to a local shop and have them straighten them. Again. "Go elsewhere."

Now I don't hate my local shops, but I was hoping that No Icing Sports would handle this for me since I got the runners there, but again, I was told to go elsewhere. So I thought I would try calling Step, the company. I spoke with Guillaume from Step Steel on the phone. I told him the situation, he seemed very eager to help, and he said he would talk to No Icing and if he couldn't work it out with them, then he'd handle it. Great! So Guillaume called back later and wasn't quite as positive sounding this time. He said that I'd need to send a photo of the runners to prove that they were bent, or mail the runners in. I told him that I didn't have a good digital camera, but I would give it a try. I tried and it didn't work out. So I emailed Guillaume, told him the photos didn't work out, and asked for his mailing address to send the runners in. Two days passed. No reply. I had my first ever ice hockey game that night and wanted to use the new runners, but was really frustrated at this point that things weren't working out, customer service wise, with the runners. (Yes, I realize that I wouldn't have been able to use the new runners for my first game if I had mailed them in, but it was the customer service situation that had me frustrated. Not the fact that I wouldn't be able to use them for my first game.) So I thought, "Whatever. I'll try and bend them back like Bob said." Tried it. Snap! Bad idea. I should have thought of another solution. I should have come here to this group for help. I should have calmed down, but my frustration got the better of me. I hope I will have learned from it. Angry and frustrated, I put my LS2 runners back in and went to the game.

I eventually calmed down about having to eat $130 (price includes profiling, sharpening, and shipping) on busted runners and then, 9 days later after emailing Guillaume at Step Steel, he called back. Ha, ha. He said, "I got your email about the photos not working out. So you can send the runners in, but it would be too expensive, so you should have them straightened at a local shop." Ha, ha! Again with the "go elsewhere" line. Awesome. So I told him it didn't matter anymore. That I tried to bend the runners back by hand as Bob suggested and the runner snapped. He asked, "Who suggested that?" I said, "Bob." He asked, "Bob from No Icing?" I said, "Yes." Guillaume was silent. I said, "It doesn't matter. I've already accepted the fact that I'm going to have to eat it. But I know that I'm never going to buy from No Icing Sports again and I'm never going to buy Step Steel again." He said he would try to talk to his manager again, but that it wasn't hopeful that they would be able to do anything. Don't worry. I'll keep my hopes low.

I have dealt with Bob at noicing MANY times and he has always been accommodating. I too had some issues with a FBV and he said no problem he would try to re-sharpen and let me try it again. Now to his point, if I wanted just a normal 1/2 hollow I could drive the 30min to my LHS and have them do it which is just a convenience thing. I have some Steps for my LS2's as well, done by NoIcing and they seem spot on.

sounds like an isolated incident and maybe a bit of a perfect storm of issues that not any 1 person could completely fix.

My .02

[Drewhunz 3]

Your move Jimmy.

FWIW Jimmy=Bob

[jimmy 194]

Your move Jimmy.

FWIW Jimmy=Bob

Well, This poster is partially correct He didn't like the FBV. No problem, as with anyone who doesn't like the FBV, I offered to resharpen them at no charge with a hollow and also mentioned that it would be cheaper to get it done locally to avoid shipping. The poster never mentioned to me anything about having to drive 20 miles round trip to his LHS to get them done. He never mentioned doing this would be a problem. If he had I would have encouraged him just to simply mail them to me, whatever was easier for him. This was on April 30th. On May 1st, the next day, I received this email from this poster, quote:

"That worked. I took them to a local shop yesterday and had them sharpened with a regular 9/16" hollow and then skated on them and the edge is much better.

Today, though, when putting my skates away after drying them over night, I noticed that both of the runners are actually a little bit bent. I've heard of mis-aligned holders causing the steel to bend, so I took them out of the holders and took a look at them outside and sure enough, they are bent a little bit. Both of them. I'm guessing I just got a bad set? I'd like to have them replaced, since I wouldn't expect runners of this price to be anything but the best. What do I need to do to get them replaced?"

I replied: "The holders are likely misaligned as runners do not come with bends in them. Nevertheless, they can easily be straighened by hand , just bend them in opposite direction. Or your local shop has a blade straightener. Still, you'll need to get the holders fixed because the steel will take whatever shape the holder has. Usually this simply involves removing a few rivets and reinstalling." This email was on May 1st. In my years of selling thousands of replacement runners it's extremely rare that one comes with a bend in it, and for 2 runners to be bent, we'll that is even less likely. Because he had bauers and they have a poor history of misaligned holders, and he initially mentioned misaligned holders, I assumed his problem was the holders. It's not the first time and won't be the last. I've never seen a new bent Step runner, ever. In addition, because he had no problems skating on the steel, I also concluded that if they were bent, it was just a little, and a simple hand bend in the opposite direction would fix it. I always try to have the customer have them straightened locally to avoid shipment costs and down time. Straightening a blade takes seconds. small bend will come out with a little reverse bend if the runner is out of the skate, otherwise a blade straightener is required. Still, easy fix.

This is the entire scope of my conversation with this customer. No other communication since 1 May. He never got back to me on the bent steel, nor was I advised of any of his continuing issues. Had he simply communicated, I would have easily replaced them for him. STEP has the best replacement warranty in the business, no other company warranties replacement steel. Also, I had no idea he contacted Step, nor did Step ever contact me. It really sounds like Step went out of their way to save him shipping on returning the runners as well by offering to just accept a picture. I'm not sure what resolution is needed to show a broken blade, a simply cell phone pic would probably suffice. I don't blame them for wanting proof, considering just how many scammers are out there.

Those of us who run mail order businesses always try first to resolve issues and help the customer before they ship items back. I can't tell you how many times customers who wanted to ship steel back to us for various reasons, but a simple communication or tip fixed their problem or answered their question, e.g, the person who tries to install the runner backwards, then emails us saying it won't fit (yes, there are many people who do this, not everyone is mechanically inclined). We always think of the customer first and don't want them to ship the runners back if it can be avoided. In summary, I offered to change this customer's FBV back to a hollow at no charge and I also tried to offer him a easy solution to his so-called bent steel problem. If there is something else he wanted us to do, he just had to ask. He didn't.

[Joshison 1]

little off topic but why would you be using the FBV anyway being so new to hockey, do you have anything to compare it too? in regards to "first game ever"

[Rashiki 0]

Well, This poster is partially correct He didn't like the FBV. No problem, as with anyone who doesn't like the FBV, I offered to resharpen them at no charge with a hollow and also mentioned that it would be cheaper to get it done locally to avoid shipping. The poster never mentioned to me anything about having to drive 20 miles round trip to his LHS to get them done. He never mentioned doing this would be a problem. If he had I would have encouraged him just to simply mail them to me, whatever was easier for him. This was on April 30th. On May 1st, the next day, I received this email from this poster, quote:

"That worked. I took them to a local shop yesterday and had them sharpened with a regular 9/16" hollow and then skated on them and the edge is much better.

Today, though, when putting my skates away after drying them over night, I noticed that both of the runners are actually a little bit bent. I've heard of mis-aligned holders causing the steel to bend, so I took them out of the holders and took a look at them outside and sure enough, they are bent a little bit. Both of them. I'm guessing I just got a bad set? I'd like to have them replaced, since I wouldn't expect runners of this price to be anything but the best. What do I need to do to get them replaced?"

I replied: "The holders are likely misaligned as runners do not come with bends in them. Nevertheless, they can easily be straighened by hand , just bend them in opposite direction. Or your local shop has a blade straightener. Still, you'll need to get the holders fixed because the steel will take whatever shape the holder has. Usually this simply involves removing a few rivets and reinstalling." This email was on May 1st. In my years of selling thousands of replacement runners it's extremely rare that one comes with a bend in it, and for 2 runners to be bent, we'll that is even less likely. Because he had bauers and they have a poor history of misaligned holders, and he initially mentioned misaligned holders, I assumed his problem was the holders. It's not the first time and won't be the last. I've never seen a new bent Step runner, ever. In addition, because he had no problems skating on the steel, I also concluded that if they were bent, it was just a little, and a simple hand bend in the opposite direction would fix it. I always try to have the customer have them straightened locally to avoid shipment costs and down time. Straightening a blade takes seconds. small bend will come out with a little reverse bend if the runner is out of the skate, otherwise a blade straightener is required. Still, easy fix.

This is the entire scope of my conversation with this customer. No other communication since 1 May. He never got back to me on the bent steel, nor was I advised of any of his continuing issues. Had he simply communicated, I would have easily replaced them for him. STEP has the best replacement warranty in the business, no other company warranties replacement steel. Also, I had no idea he contacted Step, nor did Step ever contact me. It really sounds like Step went out of their way to save him shipping on returning the runners as well by offering to just accept a picture. I'm not sure what resolution is needed to show a broken blade, a simply cell phone pic would probably suffice. I don't blame them for wanting proof, considering just how many scammers are out there.

Those of us who run mail order businesses always try first to resolve issues and help the customer before they ship items back. I can't tell you how many times customers who wanted to ship steel back to us for various reasons, but a simple communication or tip fixed their problem or answered their question, e.g, the person who tries to install the runner backwards, then emails us saying it won't fit (yes, there are many people who do this, not everyone is mechanically inclined). We always think of the customer first and don't want them to ship the runners back if it can be avoided. In summary, I offered to change this customer's FBV back to a hollow at no charge and I also tried to offer him a easy solution to his so-called bent steel problem. If there is something else he wanted us to do, he just had to ask. He didn't.

Sorry for the late response. I was out of town.

I know you stated above that if I had communicated that I wanted the runners replaced, you would have replaced them for me. And that was actually why I had sent the email and why I wrote in the email "I'd like to have them replaced..." and "What do I need to do to get them replaced?". But I wasn't offered to have them replaced and from the post above, it doesn't sound like you believe me anyway when I say they're not straight. Your email reply to the request for replacement was that I should either bend them back by hand, or take them to another shop. When you directed me to another shop for the second time, that's when I called Step and asked them what their replacement policy was for faulty runners because it didn't seem like you wanted to deal with me. I'm sorry to hear that Guillaume from Step lied and did not contact you as he said he was going to. (The runner was not broken at the time I called Step and his request for a photo was after he has supposedly talked to you.) And I am sorry for the way that things have worked out, but I guess what's done is done. But yes. All I wanted was to be able to send the runners back to you for replacement and wanted to know what I needed to do (such as do something through your site, or a include a note in the package, or what have you).

little off topic but why would you be using the FBV anyway being so new to hockey, do you have anything to compare it too? in regards to "first game ever"

FBV was what Bob has suggested, so that's what I went with. In regards to me saying "my first ever ice hockey game", I meant first real hockey game with refs and all. I had skated with a regular hollow sharpening before (public skate and some pickup games). From those times, I knew that I did not fall down when turning, but when skating on the Step runners for the first time, I fell down immediately and frequently. I didn't even know what the reason was for me not being able to hold a turn with them, but he told me that it was most likely due to the FBV.

[Chadd 916]

I didn't even know what the reason was for me not being able to hold a turn with them, but he told me that it was most likely due to the FBV.

That shouldn't be caused by FBV as long as the edges are level.