Pacers/Pistons

[foppa21 0]

Jeez, reports are coming out that claim definitively that the fan Artest punked was not the one who hit him with the beer. He might as well just open up his checkbook...

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

Wow..

Pacers-Ron Artest 30 Games

Jermaine O'Neal 20 Games

Stephen Jackson 20 Games

Pistons-Ben Wallace 5 Games

Unofficial.

If this is true, this is total disjustice to Artest, and shows how the league is persecuting him.

If I were the commissioner, here is how I would spread out suspensions/fines. Remember, this is my opinion, so, no need to bash anyone for their OPINION:

a.) The flagrant foul of Artest on Wallace, being up by so many points with less than a minute to play, carries at least a 1 game suspension, MAYBE 2 games, but, that IMHO is a reach.

b.) Wallace's reaction (push to the face of Artest) carries a minimum of 1 game suspension, possibly 2 games for continuing to go after Artest, after Artest "walked away." Furthermore, his action of "hitting" Artest is what starts the entire problem. Wallace should receive 1/3 of the suspension time that Artest receives for this (7 games total), plus, a fine of $100k.

c.) Artest needs a $10k fine for laying on top of the scorers table. This type of behavior is not what kids need to see, especially if the fracas ended here, which it didn't.

d.) While I do not condone Artest, or any other player going into the stands, what I saw was a lack of security period. I am sick and tired of people saying "I paid $80 for this ticket!" Well yes, you may have, however, it doesn't give you a right to be an a**hole, doesn't give you the right to get drunk, and it doesn't give you the right to throw your beer at other fans, or in this case, players. Therefore, I would fine the Pistons $1 million, which will also send a message to other teams that lack of security, for both the players and the fans, will not be tolerated.

e.) Artest going into the stands earns him a 20 game suspension, no matter how many fans he hits (although, credit should be given to him for the knucklehead that approaches him on the court). Let him deal with that aspect with his lawyers. He also gets a $250k fine.

f.) The first fan that approaches Artest on the court. I would, as commissioner, demand that the team, press charges against him for trespassing to the fullest extent of the law. Plus, you got popped in the mouth not once, but twice! Deal with it biotch! You are going to jail! Plus, as commissioner, I am thinking of removing 2 games of suspension from Artest for punching your a** out!

g.) The fan that comes on the court and gets knocked the f*ck out my Jermaine O'Neal, same with you. The Pistons will be pressing charges against you for trespassing, plus, when your a** wakes up in 2005, we'll file charges against you then too!

h.) Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal, despite going to help your teammate, players and fans don't mix. More fans got involved when you went up into the stands. You are each given 20 game suspensions, plus, $250k fine each, plus, enjoy hiring lawyers to protect you.

I've said my peace. Have a nice day.

[MDE3 0]

And what if Oneil catches that guy on the temple and he never gets up?.....

This is a sport....entertainment, not a "do or die" situation, not a robbery nor another kind of personal invasion .....both the fans and the players involved need to face some sort of "reality check"....Because some other sports get out of control is not a good reason to accept this behaviour (like soccer). The more violence that is accepted as part of a sport, the more it will grow, if left unchecked.

The riot that ensued the next day in college football is a classic "situation out of control" scenario....something that once charged emotions get ignited, could easily result in one or more persons dieing....not necessarily one of the players.

When the violent actions of a fan or a player reach the point that someone could experience severe bodily harm or death as a result of said actions, then the line has been severely crossed, and the regular body of law that governs all of our behaviour needs to be applied and applied very aggressively..because of the potential for inflamatory results...Just because we are at an emotional sporting event, does not excuse taking away our personal right to expect civilized behaviour. If that is ever accepted as a fact of life, then there will be complete chaos in future sporting events.

[mack 44]

What did May get for beating the crap out of the fan when he was with the Sabres?

[Chadd 916]

Marz, I'm withyou on a number of your points. The NBA has to hammer the Pistons for not keeping the fans under control. That said, you have to really dole out some serious punishment to the guys who went into the stands. Artest as the first guy should get a bigger suspension than the others in my book. I only saw some highlights and I didn't see the game in real time so my understanding of events may be slightly off though.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

And what if Oneil catches that guy on the temple and he never gets up?.....

This is a sport....entertainment, not a "do or die" situation, not a robbery nor another kind of personal invasion .....both the fans and the players involved need to face some sort of "reality check"....Because some other sports get out of control is not a good reason to accept this behaviour (like soccer). The more violence that is accepted as part of a sport, the more it will grow, if left unchecked.

The riot that ensued the next day in college football is a classic "situation out of control" scenario....something that once charged emotions get ignited, could easily result in one or more persons dieing....not necessarily one of the players.

When the violent actions of a fan or a player reach the point that someone could experience severe bodily harm or death as a result of said actions, then the line has been severely crossed, and the regular body of law that governs all of our behaviour needs to be applied and applied very aggressively..because of the potential for inflamatory results...Just because we are at an emotional sporting event, does not excuse taking away our personal right to expect civilized behaviour. If that is ever accepted as a fact of life, then there will be complete chaos in future sporting events.

I completely agree, with the one exception that a fan coming onto the field (or court in this matter) of play, with the intent to fight, which is clear to me, leaves him open game IMHO.

If he doesn't get up, well, maybe he should have stayed in his seat. Just as there are those who say the players shouldn't be going into the stands, which I agree with, then those same people must also say that the fan/spectator doesn't belong on the field of play. Turn the thing around, say Artest or one of the other players doesn't get up from getting hit in the stands. Then what? Would we all say he got what he deserved?

Was O'Neal's hit a cheap shot? Absolutely! However, ask yourself if the guy needed to get a better view of what was happening. Were his seats that bad? Did he need to be there? The answer is no and he got what was coming to him.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

Marz, I'm withyou on a number of your points. The NBA has to hammer the Pistons for not keeping the fans under control. That said, you have to really dole out some serious punishment to the guys who went into the stands. Artest as the first guy should get a bigger suspension than the others in my book. I only saw some highlights and I didn't see the game in real time so my understanding of events may be slightly off though.

I'll be in chat later if anyone wants to join to chat about this, as well as to answer several PMs that came into me yesterday on the business.

Off to Costco. BTW, where has Jay been?

[Chadd 916]

Every fan who was involved should have their tickets revoked in addition to being subject to appropriate legal action. It's a small thing but an important step to show that people who do these things are not welcome.

[ponty 0]

One of the things that killed me in this fight was I did not see a ligit punch thrown. Everyone one, by fan and player alike, was a cheap shot.

[mack 44]

The one I see that's legit is when the first guy stepped to Artest, hesitated when he saw that he wasn't going to get a cheap shot in, then Artest drops him.

[sherwood21 0]

After I watched the video of this puppy a few times...I realized that Artest absolutely tuned a couple people, he can definetely throw them

[crosskore 0]

After I watched the video of this puppy a few times...I realized that Artest absolutely tuned a couple people, he can definetely throw them

Where did you see the video?

[foppa21 0]

Wow, I think this was even more than most of us were expecting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540

[mack 44]

So Bertuzzi can break a guy's neck and get off lighter than a guy going after a fan after being provoked?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

That's was just Horrible.

[Eazy_b97 1]

So Bertuzzi can break a guy's neck and get off lighter than a guy going after a fan after being provoked?

I think the fact it was on a fan, and he kept it going was what hurt him. The NBA is not used to having fights, not nearly at the level the NHL is. Artest could've just as easily injured a fan just as bad as Bertuzzi. The first guy Artest grabbed would've been killed (literally) if the fans didn't stop Artest. Once the Bertuzzi incident happen there was a pile up and it was relatively over. He didn't come out of the pile and go after the whole team.

plus you could make a point to say Bertuzzi was provoked, by the hit on Naslund. Doesn't Bert still have to appear before the NHL for further discipline?

[mack 44]

Bertuzzi still has to apply to be re-instated, but will his suspension ever amount to 73+ games? I don't think so. Both are heinous acts, but I can't see the reason for that length.

[Eazy_b97 1]

He made the situation into a dangerous scenario for a large number of paying customers. I think if an NHLer shot a puck at a fan which was harassing them it would be much the same. Artest decided to take justice into his own hands, only against people who are governed by a different set of rules. I know if he came after me, I'd be in a lawyers office right now.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

plus you could make a point to say Bertuzzi was provoked, by the hit on Naslund.

Provoked by what was considered a legal hit! That's a weak argument IMHO.

Even worse is the fact that Moore did step up and fought Jamie Cooke earlier in the game. He had nothing left to prove having already done that.

[ponty 0]

We do need to see how many games Bert gets in the end. His actions were a greater brain fart then what we saw a couple of nights ago. Ill leave it at that.

[mack 44]

He made the situation into a dangerous scenario for a large number of paying customers. I think if an NHLer shot a puck at a fan which was harassing them it would be much the same. Artest decided to take justice into his own hands, only against people who are governed by a different set of rules. I know if he came after me, I'd be in a lawyers office right now.

I don't know, nothing much came out of Sundin tossing a stick into the stands.

[Eazy_b97 1]

If Artest didn't run into the stands, a security guard would've taken him and escorted him out. People are constantly throwing things at Sporting events, he just happened to be hit. Bertuzzi wanted revenge, or at least thats how I see it. Artest didn't stop after he grabbed 1 fan, he kept going. Do I think Bertuzzi was innocent? No. Do I think Artest deserves a season? Probably not. I am saying that both situations have there flaws, and I don't really believe either is worse than the other. Would we be having this argument if he didn't break his kneck and only gave him a concussion?

Sundins wasn't intending to hurt someone. I really feel like I am defending now, I just wanted to point out that neither was innocent, and there are reason each is getting such punishment. The only thing is I think Artest actions could've led to much much worse consequences than it did, I don't think Bertuzzi's could've.

[ponty 0]

Ahh jeez guys lets just stay away from this Bert thing. I am under the thought process of accountability. No we would NOT have this discussion if Bert did not break Moore's neck.

Thats the point HE DID. Lets please move back to the orginal topic. Please?

[mack 44]

All right, to stoke it back in that direction then what would have happened if someone with a better rep than Artest went into the stands? I guarantee Steve Francis isn't getting that amount of games. Granted he's of the character that wouldn't, but who knows.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Sorry :(